Historical wind wave averages

T

teedidy

New member
Hello again: So I am looking at the CD 25. I having spent countless hours on this forum I have came up with a new set of questions trying to understand a boat I don't yet have but really want. Knowing that the weak spot in the CD 25 (compared to deeper V boats) is wind waves and chop at 1 foot. I understand the best way to handle this is to trim the bow down, slow down and 12-18 mph is comfortable speed to travel. I live in Seattle area and currently have a slip in the Edmonds Marina (Puget Sound).

My Question is: "Where can I find monthly historical data for the average wave height in the Puget Sound"? As I look at the water from this last weekend. It looked flat, but while riding out there, it could have been 1 ft chop. For my current boat 1 ft isn't an issue (noise, safety, warmth, comfort ... are the issues (this list is really much longer)). I am trying to understand how often during the spring/summer/fall months I will need to slow down while out in the sound? My current boat doesn't plane well at 18 but I was able to ride comfortably at 22mph, the Admiral and I both think this will be fast enough.

Follow up question: If historical data is not available, could any with Puget Sound experience speak on the subject: Again I am out of Edmonds so my day trips (fishing) would usually start and end there.

Thank you for your time.

-Troy
 
Hey Teddy, It's a boat ride, slow down if you need to and enjoy. A CD-25 will handle 1 foot chop and you won't even know it's there. At 2 feet, you put the Trim Tabs down and drive the bow through it. You might have to slow from 25 down to 15, but, what's the hurry. In a 22 you would be down to 12 or 10, but you are still on plane. Above 2 foot in the 25 you might slow down .

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
I don't remember ever seeing wind/wave data for Puget Sound. There might be wind data somewhere, but I doubt that there is wave data. NOAA and CHS large scale charts have wind roses for the coast, but not inside. Most time, data collection is driven by commercial traffic and PS rarely has conditions that effect larger vessels. Contacting NOAA would be your best bet for finding anything.

Mark
 
Mark, thank you for your reply. I was hoping there was a site that I missed while looking for the data. Unfortunately I was unable to find the data I was looking for.

Hardee, thanks for the reply. 2 ft chop for the 25 vs 1 ft sounds even better. I don't mind going slower to be comfortable.

I am trying to set expectations: days like today I can see the Olympics reflecting in the water it is so calm (not true it is cloudy and I can't see them, but I can see the other shore reflecting in the water).

-Troy
 
There is historical data available...but to follow a popular phrase: "What difference does it make?"

How accurate is the weather forecast? How do you know that on the specific day you are running in the Puget Sound, that it may go from flat calm to 6' steep seas, with 60 knots? Sure the odds are that this will be picked up in the forecast. But conditions vary.

If you want a comfortable ride in 3 foot seas in a C Dory type of boat, spring for a Tom Cat 255. But that is no guarantee.

What is the dead rise of the boat you have now? I have ridden alongside a 26' Regulator with 24* dead rise, in a Tom Cat 255--and I would say the ride was equal in 2.5 to 3' seas at 22 knots, With the C Dory 25, I would have slowed down to 12 or so, and put the bow way down--maybe gotten behind a trawler going 8 knots....

There is no guarantee of a smooth ride on any one day for any boat--The statical averages, mean absolutely nothing. What you see is what you get.

I have crossed a number of oceans. At that time, and even today, you can never guarantee what the "ride" will be like. Try sustained winds of over 70 knots with fetch of over 1000 miles....survival. Same with the C Dory 25. For example, in AK we spent a month, running every day, except one. That day nothing, including fishing trawlers and 80 foot charter boats were not moving....Other days, we slowed down if necessary.

Maybe the Cutwater or "new" Ranger Tug, with deep V is a better boat for you. There are always trade offs....
 
thataway":8zmpf5uk said:
There is historical data available...but to follow a popular phrase: "What difference does it make?"
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter, but have you ever visited a new city and asked a simple question such as how often is it sunny here. I am not sure what in my post you decided you didn’t like which is odd to me. You have previously replied to every post of mine in the past and never torched me and attempted to sway me from the C-Dory line. In fact today I spoke with Marty at Master Marine getting more questions answered.

Yes I have looked at all 3 of the boats you listed and they are not for me.

I think my question is legit, perhaps optimistic that data would be available. And i really wanted to hear from the locals who have C-Dory boats. How often do you have to really go slow in the puget sound? I am looking forward to going slower as needed.

BYW my boat has a 20 degree deadrise and it goes way to fast. My neighbor practically gave it to me and as a first boat, I have already added trim tabs. Dr Bob thank you for all the posts on over drilling. Added a thru hull transducer (just because i wanted to see what was down there). Added shore power: Dr Bob thank you for recommending “Boatowner's Illustrated Electrical Handbook Illustrated” in a previous post.

Discovery. Thank you for your reply. That info is great to have.

-Troy
 
Troy,

Sorry for the short and rather abrupt answer earlier. I got called away on an urgent errand after I started.

I live in Sequim and cross the Juan de Fuca Strait several times every season. From the Sequim Bay outer marker to Cattle Pass (between Lopez and San Juan Islands, south entrance to the San Juan Islands group) it is 25 miles straight north across the Strait. I have crossed on mirror flat days and on some that were 4-5 foot, mostly beam seas. Those days are what I call a "boat ride". My preference is for the flat calm, the usual is calm to 1ft+. I check the weather (wind speed and direction), and waves, (height and period), to the east, Port Townsend and Smith Island, the mid way point, (Dungeness Buoy) for the same info, and then to the west, Ediz Hook (Port Angeles) and Race Rocks, (Victoria). Winds over 15K and blowing towards me, or waves over 2 ft and it is a no go. To minimize the chance of the "No Go", I plan on starting across VERY early, and am on the line from the New Dungeness Light house to Protection Island AT sunrise. Generally that will allow about 2-3 hours before the morning winds start to come into play. Cruising at 12 to 15 knots, that means a 2.5 hour crossing, give or take due to the tidal current.(I have done it in 6 hours at about 5 knots a couple of times, and only once in 2 hours. 2.5 to 3.0 is average.) Of course these times are in a 22 Cruiser with twin 40's.) You can set your watch at 1000 on the dock at Sequim Bay State Park because that is when the morning breeze starts making waves.

All this to say that, if you want to boat, you have to be aware of your area, and your boat capability, AND your own capability (and if you are carrying passengers, then their comfort level as well.)

What Dr Bob is saying is that even with the Historical data, that is only what was, not what is, and it is the "What is" that you are going to need to use for planning today's ride.

The TomCat 255 will give you the softest ride, but you will either be below 10 knots or above 20. The CD-25 will soften the 1-2 footers more than a 22, and the 22 will make those same waves a bit more "interesting".

A couple things I have learned over time:
1. My boat wants to float, rightside up. It does that best when it is moving forward.
2. I don't have to cross all 25 miles at one time. I just need to find the best course and the smoothest water for the next 50 - 100 feet. Do that enough and I am across.

I should note that I do not typically go out for a boat ride in 2+foot waves or winds over 15. I do, however, do safety boat service for several organized rowing and other boat races and so sometimes I am in rougher conditions than I would usually chose to be in. (In those situations see above # 1 & 2.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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The CD 16 is the smallest and shallowest draft boat that I've cruised in (maybe the smallest that is possible to cruise in). It is also by far my fastest boat by about 15 knots. In theory, I can zip across when conditions are good. In reality, I'm like a cat in a rocking chair factory. In my "slow" boats I didn't care if the wind kicked up to 40 and the waves to 6 feet. That just meant a couple hours when I had to be careful with my coffee cup.

Even given the limitations, I've cruised areas for a week in the C Dory and returned home in less time than it would have taken me to just get to the cruising grounds in a slower or non-trailerable boat. There have been crossings I decided not to try and times I decided not to go based on hull configuration and LOA.

On the other hand, my practical cruising grounds have increased by literally thousands of miles. (I can't even get Google driving directions between Winter Harbor, BC and Page, AZ. No same person does that).

Trade offs.

Mark
 
The reason for the original post was to be able to set expectations to the Admiral. The idea of a quick run to a near by Marina with another couple or with our kids for dinner/lunch/day outing/golf is great. I was trying to find information how often (for example) the trip across to Kingston would be at 12 or 6, or 25. I sit out my window watching the tug boats go by while I stare at my computer screen all day wishing I could go that slow all the time. I am merely looking for information to best set expectations. I don't see my self crossing the Straight very often, not for many years (I don't see my self getting that much time off for a while). Its not a big deal. Today for example I can actually see the Olympics and it is smooth enough I can see the reflection in the water, so right now would be a 25. Anyways, thanks for all who replied, I appreciate your time.

-Troy
 
Troy, No one was "torching" you. The most easily found historical data for Puget Sound is located: Here is West Point, Washington. Often one has to infer wave height (which is ubiquitous) from wind velocity and wind direction.

There are a some other data centers located on the internet on a google search: put in "Historical USA government buoy data". .

The point I was making, is that if you can see the sound or part of it, from a window, you have a great point to start from. Looking at days of sunshine or temperatures, is a lot different than predicting winds and waves....

One of the other posters referred to "pilot charts" which give the averages for seas, wind, direction, fog etc, for a general area. I have found those of use in sailing across oceans for planing--as they were intended. They will also give a trend as to what month the passage may be easiest.

20* deadrise is moderate, and gives me some idea of what you have experienced in the past. I ran an 18* dead rise boat 18 feet and it often had a rough ride--not much better if any, than a 25' C Dory--as Harvey noted, the bigger the boat the better the ride. I also ran a 26* 18' Ray Hunt Design in some very rough conditions--breaking waves over 6 feet, doing SAR in 40 knot winds in the Catalina Channel, with long fetch. Also as Harvey pointed out: Seamanship is key to comfort of ride.

You say that it may be many years before you cross the Strait because you are working. When I was working I made many long voyages, including to Mexico with a 2 1/2 old son. I made many races to from 1000 to 2500 miles in sailboats. A trip up the Sound, or a launch in Anacortes and over to the San Juans, should be an easy trip for a weekend, or 3 day holiday. Introducing your family to boating, is a wonderful idea. It will leave memories for all of their lives--and direct their life plans in many cases.
 
Sometimes late in is good. This may be one of them.

I like "What difference does it make?" (to your questions)
Once you are 'out there', it's all on you.

First clue: know your capabilities.
Best advice after that is study weather, respect it and go from there.

Happy sailing.

Aye.
 
Oh, something else.

If you are not confident in your sea plan, don't go or hire someone
who knows what they are doing.

Don't become a statistic; indirectly, it hurts all of us.

Aye.
 
thataway":jptjy8nn said:
The most easily found historical data for Puget Sound is located: Here is West Point, Washington. Often one has to infer wave height (which is ubiquitous) from wind velocity and wind direction.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I guess I got what I asked for and its way too much information to even make sense of, there are way too many data points.


Thanks again for everyone time and input.

-Troy
 
thataway":3eqk7ij5 said:
Introducing your family to boating, is a wonderful idea. It will leave memories for all of their lives--and direct their life plans in many cases.
Click to expand...
Next time my wife complains about how much time and money I put into Kanaloa i'm going to show her this.
 
A not untypical wind pattern in the central Puget Sound is that we get strong north winds and waves in the afternoon on hot days. While not scary it is quite a ride in the middle of the sound.
 
I fish mainly the straits (sequim,pa,cq). when fishing and wanting to get out and back I would say I average 20 mph on most given days. that is with a 22' and 90 etec. fishing July-September. some days 15-17 some days up to 27 about as fast as I want to go in that set up.

if you do go with a c-dory I think you will find you go from 100% fishing boat to a 50-50 split between cruising, camping, and fishing. I know we did and one of the many things I am grateful for owning a cdory. had we went with a more "fishing only boat" I never would of been exposed to the other side of it.

25 is a sweet boat we are seriously thinking about upgrading as the kids have gotten older and bigger.
 
I had a 22 and currently have a Tomcat. When I had the 22, I did a lot of my fishing and cruising in the Puget Sound. In the summer, there are not many days when you have to slow down due to wind/waves. Probably <25% of all summer days. In the winter, it's probably a bit higher, but even then most days are decent for cruising. The sound is fairly well protected. Except for high N/S winds and the entrance to the Strait of Juan de Fuca, there's not a lot of places with more than a 4-5 miles of fetch. For in the Strait or out on the coast, it's a different story as most days in winter you wouldn't want to be on the water. If your primary concern is runs from Everett to Kingston or Edmonds or LaConner, etc., I wouldn't worry about having to slow way down very often.
 
rogerbum":11zukjsw said:
In the summer, there are not many days when you have to slow down due to wind/waves. Probably <25% of all summer days. In the winter, it's probably a bit higher, but even then most days are decent for cruising. The sound is fairly well protected. Except for high N/S winds and the entrance to the Strait of Juan de Fuca, there's not a lot of places with more than a 4-5 miles of fetch.
Click to expand...

Thank you Roger, Jake and Rob, I was really hoping this would be the case given how protected the waters are here from most winds.

-Troy
 
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