Heavy weather handling

K

kvoska

New member
I am considering a buying C-Dory 22. I will be using the boat mostly on the Great South Bay of Long Island, NY. We frequently get a good chop of three feet or more. How does the C-Dory handle in rough water?
I imagine that with such a flat bottom - it must really pound. Would you ever consider going 30 miles or more in the ocean?
I was surprised to see such a low horsepower limit. Can this boat really perform as the specs claim? Or are these specs for smooth lake like conditions? How much must you slow down in rough conditions? How much does the gas consumption suffer?
Any other advice you might be able to provide to a first time buyer would be appreciated.
 
kvoska":206mazk9 said:
I am considering a buying C-Dory 22. I will be using the boat mostly on the Great South Bay of Long Island, NY. We frequently get a good chop of three feet or more. How does the C-Dory handle in rough water?
I imagine that with such a flat bottom - it must really pound.
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This is one of the most commonly asked questions. In brief, the boat does pound if you try to go fast (above about 12-14kts) in chop of a foot or more. Once the chop is up higher than that (say 3'-5') all boats of this size (v-hull or not), generally wind up slowing down and this is where the C-Dory hull starts to perform more nicely than deep-V's (especially in following seas). In large following seas, the flat hull acts more like a cork and the waves tend to pass easily underneath.

kvoska":206mazk9 said:
Would you ever consider going 30 miles or more in the ocean?
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I've done that many a time. I pick good days and go out. I've been in swells that are over 10' tall without a problem (long period swells). I've been in 4-5' wind waves and the boat does just fine. In general, the boat will handle more than I can. The key is to take things slowly and learn how the boat handles in various conditions.

kvoska":206mazk9 said:
I was surprised to see such a low horsepower limit. Can this boat really perform as the specs claim? Or are these specs for smooth lake like conditions?
Click to expand...
The horsepower limits are driven by a number of factors (including weight on the transom and liability issues). Regardless, even on glassy water, the hull form does not handle well above about 30kts and that's what really limits the useful HP. The boat will hit the speeds in the specs when lightly loaded and on flat water. You won't be able to go that fast in the chop though.

kvoska":206mazk9 said:
How much must you slow down in rough conditions? How much does the gas consumption suffer?
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Of course that depends on how rough the conditions are. In 1' chop, I still do about 20kts. 2-3 ft and I'm down around 12-14kts, much higher and I'm in the 7-8kt range. The gas consumption doesn't suffer much since the boat is on plane at about 12-14kts. Permatrims and/or trim tabs will help a lot as they will allow you to get the bow down and will reduce the pounding considerably. I wouldn't but a 22' CD without at the permatrims on twins or without trim tabs if you run a single.

kvoska":206mazk9 said:
Any other advice you might be able to provide to a first time buyer would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

The key thing to realize is that all hulls are compromise. The dory hull IS worse in small to moderate chop than a deep V. The dory hull DOES get far better fuel mileage than a deep V. If your primary intended use is to run offshore in moderate waves to go fishing and you can afford the fuel, a C-Dory is not the boat for you. If you want a good all around boat that will provide good fuel mileage and which can handle rough conditions (albeit slower), then the C-Dory is s good choice.
 
Wow, great post Roger! You nailed it. Now if we only had those stickies we keep talking about, I would suggest your post be used as reference for prospective buyers. :thup
 
These are tough boats but their handling, like any boat, depends a lot on the skill of the crew. In general the boats will take a lot more weather than will the crew. I have had my 22 in 6' chop and it was not fun but I never felt in any danger from the boat's failure, just from my fumbling :). The way to avoid pounding in heavy weather is to slow down but having said that they will not handle chop like a deep Vee. But, when that deep Vee comes down off plane it will feel a lot less stable than my little C-dory. These are not go fast boats. Most people cruise at 12-15kts or slower. The factory horsepower limit for the new 22's is 115HP. I have 2 Honda 40's and have adequate power, my top speed heavily loaded is about 26kts. Fuel consumption has so many variables it is difficult to give much firm data. Many Brats take their boats out pretty far offshore, out to the entry to the Straits of Juan de Fuca for example some have gone to the Bahamas, I will be heading out Friday for 10 days, about 300nm roundtrip including crossing the Straits of Georgia where the water can be quite rough and have no qualms.

This topic has had a lot of discussion here so if you look around the site you should find much information
 
We were out on the Gulf on Saturday and it was fairly sloppy at about 3-4' with the odd 5 footer and wind chop on top of that. I was still able to do 14 or 15mph without getting beat up. We trolled most of the day at 4 mph and it was comfortable enough to fish. My suggestion is to hook up with someone local who has one and go for a ride.

Rick
 
These are all great posts and answers to your question. For me before buying my first C-Dory a 16 Cruiser I had a 18 Proline deep v. The 16 would go anywhere the Proline would go and a lot more comfortable. My 22 is even better and as someone said they float like a cork. With the Proline I found myself cutting through swells and it was a pretty wet ride. With the 22 I just trim it down slightly and typically cruise at around 12 or 14 MPH in 3ft chop. In 1 ft or less I cruise comfortably at 22 to 25 with a top speed of 30 mph. I think if all my boating was in heavy seas I might consider a deep v pilot house boat but then you would be loosing the shallow water capabilities and need a much larger engine for the same preformance in a deep V. In real world my heavily loaded 22 averages 3.8 MPG but if I hold my cruise speed to 7 mph I can get as much as 8 MPG. No matter what I really like the pilothouse design and can't see myself at this point in life with any other design.
 
KVOSKA --

I grew up boating on Great South Bay (lived in Bayport and boated from Sailors Haven east with occasional trips out Fire Island Inlet) and know the chop that you are talking about. We get the same chop on LI Sound from the prevailing SW breeze combined with all the wakes. I have had a bunch of larger boats and have come back to the CD22 as the most boat for the money and a very, very capable boat if you are willing to match its speed to the conditions. In your area, you not only have the chop but you have enormous expanses of shallow water and sand flats. Heck, you can just about walk home from anywhere in Great South Bay! That is where the CD22 also comes into its own. You can go so many places that V hulled boats can't go. Take anchoring off Sailors Haven for example. With the flat bottom, you can go in close to shore for shorter wading and if you misjudge depth while you are over at the ocean beach and the tide (all 8 inches) goes out on you, the boat will sit nicely on its bottom till the tide comes back.

We are hoping to circumnavigate LI later this year coming in FI Inlet, criss crossing GSB and then heading east through Bellport Bay and Moriches Bay to Shinnecock Inlet and then east around Montauk Point in the ocean. I can't think of a better boat for running the really shallow eastern end and the LI ICW which has about 4 feet maximum in it and often less. I have no concerns in taking the boat out Shinnecock and east in the ocean as long as it is a normal day and not blowing up. The other thing about the boat is that with its cabin, you are out of the sun and rain or drizzle or cold so you can really extend your seasons when Great South Bay is at its nicest.
 
If you want speed and a boat which will go fast in 3 foot sea, then consider the Tom Cat 255. Light these boats will do in the high 40's--and even loaded down in the mid to low 40's. The faster you go, the better the ride in seas up to about 3.5 feet.

To compliment what 416rigby said: Saturday, I was in Perdido Bay with my 18 foot Century (115 hp, 18 degree dead rise). We had a chop up to 2.5 to 3 feet and I averaged about 10 knots in the rougher areas (and beat up my back ) running down the bay. So just a moderate v does not guarantee that in 2.5 to 3 foot chop, that you will have a good ride. The Tom Cat would have been smooth.

Putting the bow down (since the C Dories are basically water tight) you can drive into the chop with a lot of spay and still have a decent ride. If you really want to go offshore with speed then consider the Contender or Regulator 26 degree dead rise deep V's. But for comfort and a good cruising boat, then the C Dory is a great boat. Just have to slow down--as the excellent posts above show.

The 25 C Dory does slightly better than the 22, and after having the Permatrims and trim tabs, vs my first 22 without either of these, I highly recommed them. Last year we were running down wind with about 35 knots of wind and seas 5 to 6 feet with no problems. Same with beam seas. I have no reservations going 30 miles offshore--but recommend either dual engines or a kicker if you are going offshore, as well as a locator beacon and other safety gear. These boats are as "safe" as they come. The "Cork" analogy is excellent. But you do slow down in rough weather.
 
Hey guys, you really are great. Less than 24 hours after my request for info, I got all sorts of detailed and useful replies. Thank you. Your responses are definitely helping me with my decision, especially since there aren't many C-dorys near me on Long Island NY.

Perhaps I should have mentioned my intended use for the boat. Yes we do often get quite a chop in the Great South Bay. Most of my trips wil be back and forth across the bay (about five miles). Since I tend to ignore the channels and take the shortest route, about half of this distance is on water that is 2 feet or less deep so the waves can't build up that much. I have to rule out a deep V, since the dock where I tie up at on the other side is very shallow - less than a foot on low tide.

I presently have a 26 year old 21 foot Privateer with a 16 year old 140HP Johnson. It is a great shallow draft work boat - but it's getting old and doesn't have much shelter for cold or bad weather.

I don't mind slowing down during heavy weather, so long as it isn't too much. Most of my trips are only going about 5 miles, and most trips are either directly into the SW wind (and waves) or coming home with a following sea. It would be OK if I can still do about 10 kts. I don't mind bouncing around out there for half of my 30 minutes or so. My Privateer does it in about 20 min but it also really pounds.

Eventually, I'd like to get into cruising and I'd like to be able to get across the bay during the colder months. The watertight cabin really appeals to me. Does it stay watertight as the boat gets older (10 or 15 years)?

I have a couple of other questions. The C-dorys don't seem to have any visible floatation, or is the floatation well hidden? I'd hate to hit a submerged log or other debris. The recent brochures don't give much detailed information and nobody seems to answer the phones at the factory. Has any one hit anything and had hull damage? (I know this would be hard to admit to.)

Being a two cycle man for almost 40 years, I have my hesitations about the Japanese 4 cycle motors that all C-dorys seem to have. How hard and expensive are they to maintain and winterize? I'm particularly interested in the Honda.

Once again, thanks a lot for your help.

By the way - if anyone has a C-dory on the Great South Bay and would be willing to take me for a ride ...
 
Kvoska if your current Privateer is the Skimmer flat bottom model that I'm familiar with you can expect a much better ride from the C-Dory. My 22 planes at about 10 mph.

As far as the cabin remaining water tight there's really no place for it to leak.

The 22' have floatation under the v-berth. I've never heard of anyone putting a hole in the hull the balsa sandwich construction is pretty stout.

I've owned 3 of the newer four strokes Mercury 50 HP which I still have a Honda 50 and a Suzuki 90 on my C-Dory and have been happy with all of them. The Suzuki by far has been the best. If buying used I'd limit my search to fuel injected my Honda 50 was carbed and I did have a little trouble with it. As far as worrying about buying a japanese motor you don't really have any choice my Mercury is mostly made by Yamaha and I understand Johnson' s are made by Suzuki. As far as maintaining them like any four stroke just keep the fluids changed. As far as winterizing I'm happy to say I don't know anything about that.

Good luck on your search.
 
As far as reliability, just ask yourself "When was the last time I saw a Honda, Yamaha, or Suzuki broke down on the side of the road?"
 
As for hitting items--there is one C Dory which was rolled in very heavy surf I believe off Oregon and hit the beach, pounded by surf for some time. This boat was salvaged and rebuilt. There was extensive damage to the cabin top and sides, but the hull was remarkedly intact.

The 4 stroke motors are exteremly reliable. There are many cases of these engines going over 4,000 hours and some of over 8,000 hours without any major work on them (of course this was in commercial use, where they were run daily, with excellent maintance). As for winterizing. Just drain any water, put fuel stabalizer in the fuel, and run it into the engine. I personally like to fog an engine which will be laid up--but some don't go to that extreme. Most folks change the engine oil and lower unit oil when put to bed for the winter. But you may be able to use the boat most of the winter.

Any time you are running in shoal water, you want to be careful. I have a sandbar which is down to less than 18" during the winter low tides and the C Dory boats go over this easily--but I don't go at planing speeds--I go slow, with the engine tilted up to avoid hitting the bottom.
 
Kvoska -

I see you just joined a few days ago, and you've already experienced the typical C-Brat hospitality. Perhaps you've been lurking for awhile and already know this. If not, you have a pleasant surprise ahead of you.

I am a long-time wannabe (maybe the economy will turn around one of these days). A couple of years ago I posted a request for a demo ride from a nearby owner. The message was posted around midnight, Friday night, and by coincidence, he was going out the next day. I was on the water 12 hours after the original request! (Keep in mind -- this was in Portland in February during a lucky break in the weather.)

As you browse the archives, you will find this is not unusual. The actual ride may take awhile to schedule, but typically, one or more offers appear within hours.

Also, as you have seen, along with ownership (or even without ownership) comes the opportunity to join the C-Brats. You might consider this as an option that comes at no charge. What's it worth? Priceless!

Good luck in your search.

:thup

iggy
 
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