HATCH COVERS IN BERTH

S

starcrafttom

Active member
In the last month I have been emailed about the larger hatches in the Susan E. It was a great little project that really changed how we boated and vastly improved our enjoyment of the boat. Here is the supplier I used for the hatches. They seem to have the best prices. greatlakeskipper



So before the hatches we would run a day and night shift on the boat. Most of the gear was in the vberth during the day. This is my cloth bag, susans cloth bag, susans book bag, susans computer bag ( seeing a theme here yet) susans bag of board games (none of which we every played) susans dogs bag plus all the bedding. There was very little room to lay down in the berth if any. So at night all that gear got moved to the table and seats so we could sleep in the berth but then you can't sit at the table when you get up until you move it all back. PIMA...

So now with the large hatches under the v-berth we have lots of storage for these items until we need them. No more moving stuff around.

Its a easy project.
First pick out the hatch size you want.
Second cut the holes with a rotor saw or a jig saw.
Third scoop out the foam.
Fourth cover the raw fiberglass with some sort of sealer. you can use paint, epoxy, carpet. etc... your choice.

the other question I get from everyone is that if hatches are not level with the surface can I feel it under the mattress.? With the stock mattress yes, But I can't sleep in the dory with just the mattress regardless of the hatches. that mattress sucks. So we have a memory foam topper that susan cut to shape on top of that. with the two I can't feel anything at all.[/url]
 
On my list too, that's why I snagged David's large give-away hatch at the SBS/CBGT, and we just returned from Penney's with our memory foam topper, King size 1.5" for $55 (ad says normal price $109). If that is not enough, we might need to use two memory foam toppers.

So project one is to open up "the cave," and project two is to cut the hole, scoop out the foam and install the hatch.

localboy":1qw7tl64 said:
It's on the list. :lol:
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I finished the same hatch install on our 25 cruiser a month ago, a 10x18 in front of the leg space and a 8x12 on each side. The reason I started the project was because I suspected water under the vee berth. Poking a stick through the hole when I removed one of the black plastic plugs on a foam fill hole confirmed my suspicions. I found the source of the water to be a bad bulkhead joint in the wall between the berth and the anchor locker. Water had leaked through and over time the foam had soaked it up. First I brought the drain hole in the locker down to the locker floor level, it was about 1/2 inch high and the locker would not drain completely and the overflow leaked into the bow. Then I sealed the bulkhead to eliminate the leak.

When I was in the navy it was always drilled into my head that access to the hull was vital for damage control should the hull be breached. Therefore I was never comfortable having a sealed up bow with a few cans of expending foam sprayed in it. In the unlikely event of holing my hull at the bow I believe I can do a better job of getting to safety with a temporary plug than trusting to foam and a leak I can't get to.

And don't forget about the water tank you might have under there, I wanted storage space for bulky light objects and items I don't need to get very often. Anyway I decided the 25 gallon tank under there was what I wanted. I cut my tank up and pulled it out through the new hatch hole and have since installed a collapsible 14 gallon tank in the space below the table.

I guess getting the boat out this spring will tell if it was the right way to go but after reading about similar conversions other C-brats have done I believe I will be happy with it. :teeth

Rich
 
To the question about effects of removing the foam. My personal opinion is that there is not enough foam to "safely" float the boat level to begin with. The majority of the weight is on the stern, so you would end up with the bow bobbing around--and probably no way to hang onto it--if for some reason the boat filled with water. (Which is very unlikely). In a 22 foot boat there is no CG requirement for floatation.

If you still want floatation--there are several options. One would be to put foam up under the gunnels in the cockpit. Another would be to have vinyl bladders built, with CO2 bottles to inflate them. These could be placed under gunnels, forward etc. (You can also buy large inflatable fenders which can serve as floatation, and fenders!)
 
thataway":1nl548p5 said:
...You can also buy large inflatable fenders which can serve as floatation, and fenders!
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And you could also buy a large inflatable. :P

Seriously, a couple of survival suits would increase your chances of survival dramatically over a marginally awash boat. Plus, as Rich pointed out, the ability to get to the hull area and place a patch with a strongback may also prove important.
 
richnkay":3vuh5h3j said:
When I was in the navy it was always drilled into my head that access to the hull was vital for damage control should the hull be breached. Therefore I was never comfortable having a sealed up bow with a few cans of expending foam sprayed in it. In the unlikely event of holing my hull at the bow I believe I can do a better job of getting to safety with a temporary plug than trusting to foam and a leak I can't get to.

Rich
Click to expand...

Good point. I've never considered installing the hatches because of the flotation and the access issue never entered my mind.
 
I asked the question regarding removal of floatation to see everyone's perspective of two specific issues.... 1. Would your insurance company question your policy if the modification reduced any inherent safety that was built into your boat at the time of construction. 2. Most small craft swampings / sinkings occur unexpectedly and crews usually panic when this occurs, due to issues such as hypothermia and becoming disoriented because of being trapped in a sometimes flipped boat. Any ability to keep some of the boat afloat, without the crew taking immediate actions has saved may a sole.
Best regards,
Steve Baum
Old retired Coastie who once rescued swamped / sunken boat victims for my day to day job
 
The CD 25 that swamped in Alaska floated all night in a vertical position until they could pick it up. This was with twin honda 90's on the stern.

I would like to get a look at Tom's project, maybe I'll get a chance at Friday harbor. I love my 22, but the boss is getting to the point where she wants more room or storage for longer trips, This project seems to answer one of the problems. Roger
 
RogerJuntunen":s5wg7hzj said:
The CD 25 that swamped in Alaska floated all night in a vertical position until they could pick it up. This was with twin honda 90's on the stern.
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Any idea if that was from trapped air in the bow rather than flotation material? Though I imagine that an anchor deck pipe would bleed that out pretty steadily. OTOH, detaching the rode and using a screw-down fitting would render the anchor much less deployable. Always tradeoffs.

FWIW, the hatches folks are installing are billed as "water-tight" and - assuming the area were otherwise sealed - there need not be any reduction in flotation (assuming that the area was not breached).

If the loss of flotation material were really a concern, then leave most of the material and install a drop in hatch liner a la:
http://www.boatingequipmentstore.com/product/Access-Hatch-Liners/Default.aspx?gfid=p1476-o3390
 
I don't know about the 25 or more recent 22's, but my '87's compartment under the V-berth is sealed flotation. I don't know if there's any foam in there, but it does have a brass drain plug fitting right down at the bottom of the companionway between the main part of the cabin and the berth.

It will hold slight air pressure, as I've tried it out to test it for water tightness. (Warning: Don't put any real serious pressure on this compartment, as the area affected is so large that the resulting forces could rupture the seams where the V-berth top meets the hull walls!)

There have been a number of projects to add water storage tanks or storage compartments to this area in the past. This is quite understandable considering the limited space available on these boats. The addition of weight up there can also assist in boat balance (offsetting stern overweight), and also helps improve the ride in heavy chop.

Whether compromises in buoyancy will have serious consequences will probably take a long time to find out, as a swamped C-Dory is a rare thing, there only being two or so that I can recall in my 10-12 years on several C-Dory owners groups.

Joe :teeth :thup
 
How many C Dories have hit objects which have breeched the hull? I suspect that it is mininal if any. I was on a 55 foot sailboat racing off the coast of Mexico, going to weather in 55 knots of wind and about 8 foot seas. The assumption is that we hit a semi floating shipping container (judging by the impact area and damage). This boat had about 3" of balsa core (planked, not end grain)--and the outer 3/8 to 1/2" of glass was ruptured by a "corner"--(this outer hull is thicker than the C Dory--but the boat also weighed more--about 18,000 lbs--light for that size boat). The core was impacted and the inner glass (about 1/4" thick) was delaminated over about 25 sq feet. No water got into the boat--and the amount of water in the core was minimal. I don't know if hitting a dead head would fracture a C Dory hull--certainly a rock could. But the circumstance would be very unusual.

Certainly boats sink rapidly--so fast that crew cannot get to EPIRPS or life rafts. This is the reason we keep our mini ditch bag by the helm--and have personal locator beacons as well as waterproof VHF radios on our persons, in rough weather. We have depended on an inflated dinghy to provide "life support"--survival suits in cold water are certainly an excellent idea--but not all of us boat in cold water, all of the time. It is rare to find a C Dory with a life raft. There used to be a 16 C Dory which carried a life raft on its trips to Catalina--as I recollect there was always a problem finding room for the raft, and having to shift it back and forth was an issue.
 
In the unlikely event of holing my hull at the bow I believe I can do a better job of getting to safety with a temporary plug than trusting to foam and a leak I can't get to.
Click to expand...

Like Rich, this is my opinion w/ the limited experience I have. I just hope we NEVER have to test this theory.
 
Got my hatches yesterday, so when I got home from work I removed the mattress/memory foam to lay them out. WTH?...discovered no plastic plug(s) anywhere up there. :? Now I'm wondering if there is even any foam under there at all?
 
Being a veteran of a recent installation I found that removal of the foam was a bear in my boat. That bow area was totally filled with the foam. I didn't have a plug visible there either. I have the port side done, with the exception of cleaning and covering the hull surface. I dread starting on the starboard side. I am not too worried about the flotation. Most of the flotation is still intact and the hatch cover is supposed to be water tight. Somehow I doubt that much if any of the boat would float if you were swamped anyway. But with all the storage you gain you could easily carry a survival suit if you thought it might be necessary.
 
There may not be foam under the V-Berth mold. I think that in the year or so before the hatches (and storage) were offered that there was no foam in the hull. It is not required by the CG, and I think was more of a sound deadener than any attempt at flotation.
 
I may need some revised understanding here, but I thought there was a big difference between plastic storage hatch covers and watertight marine hatches - besides price. I thought that the plastic storage hatch covers were meant to be waterproof from outside entry (rain, splashes), but wouldn't keep air from leaking out of a submerged compartment. I thought that only watertight marine hatches would keep water on one side and air on the other while submerged; at a cost of about ten times the plastic hatch price.

I thought that the plastic hatches would not suffice to maintain buoyancy when submerged. Am I missing something?
 
I'm strictly speculating here, but I don't believe any plastic hatches are strong enough to withstand/counter the forces of air/water being pushed against them as used here, in the berths.

That said, I am realistic that should it get to THAT point, we'd better be in the dinghy (GOD, FORBID!!) cause we've got bigger problems than worrying IF they will "hold".
 
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