Hailing 3rd Byte

[Spike]

Was looking at your photos of the quick clips and noticed your trim tab add on. Did you make them yourself? And What kind of preformance improvments do you get? Also do you think there is anymore strain on the accuators? Did you have to change the tab to hull hinges? Lotsa questions I know, but am very intested in doing that mod myself. Thanks for any info.

Chuck
Bootleg Hooch

 

[Sea Wolf]

Chuck-

Here are the two threads that discuss Mark's trim tab additions. The specific dimensions and construction details are on page 3 of the second one, and are copied below: Be sure and read all the comments about the Lenco Trim Tabs being too small, including Bill's (DaNag), also copied here.

Trim Master Trim Tabs Revisited

Lenco Trim Tabs

I hate to post a negative review, but I know many folks make decisions based on what they read here. If any of you have Lencos and are satisfied with them, feel free to chime in here.

After having used the Lencos for a while, and talking with TyBoo Mike and Mark (2nd Byte) about them, I'm sorry to say none of us are as pleased with them as previous models. Both Mark and I had TrimMasters before (Mark on his 22, me on my 19), TyBoo had the Bennet M80's.

The main problem - they don't have anywhere near the lift that the other manufacturer's models have.

'Tis a shame - I really like the design better. Not having to deal with hydraulics is nice, and the instantaneous response from the screw jacks is a plus. Also, the controls with the integrated position indicators are pretty slick. Still, if'n they don't adjust the boat as they should, all that goes out the window. Both Mike and I routinely run the boat with one side all the way down just to get proper lateral trim.

I've not given up on them yet, but none of the mods I have in mind are ideal. First thing I'm going to try - moving the arm farther forward on the tab bottom, closer to the hinge. In the stock configuration, Lenco places them as far aft on the tab as possible, which gives the least amount of travel possible for the length of the screw jack.

If that doesn't work, I'll look into having the turned-up edges turned down - this would generate a little more lift, and is how both Bennett and TrimMaster build their tabs.

If none of the above proves satisfactory, I'll probably have some extensions fabbed up and bolt them on.

More details as they come, but for now, I'd suggest those of you thinking about tabs consider going with the known good tab configurations - Bennett and TrimMaster.

OK, I like Da Nag, and some others, have the Lenco 9"x12" trim tabs. They have been something less than I expected in efficacy so I am in the process of making some changes to the tabs. I hate the thought and expense of filling the old holes, violating my baby with new holes and buying new tabs. Coming up with a satisfactory work around, or solution, has been a challenge. More to the point, something simple and practical that I can get my arms around.

I am adding stainless steel wings to the existing tabs. the wings have an 8 degree downturn to help channel the water just a bit. The wings will add approximately 1" width to the front edge of the tab (1/2" ea wing) and 3" width to the rear width (1 1/2" ea wing)

Finished tab will have zero taper and the overall tab surface 120 sq. in., a full 10" x 12", with a modest 8 degree downturn of the side edges. I took the mock up pattern I had made, ran it by the fab shop this morning amd picked it up this afternoon. I haven't had a chance to drill the mounting holes or bolt them on as yet. However, I did, for illustration purpose, mount a pair of the wings on a trim tab with double side tape and took some pics which I put in 3rd Bytes album this evening.

I put the pics in my album because that I can handle. Don't know how to articulate them to another destination.

I should add that 3rd Byte a 22' Cruiser has a Johnson 90, 4 stroke w/
a Honda 9.9 kicker which sit on the Mighty Mike's. Tyboo special kicker bracket. The package accomodates the potential clearance problem.

Joe. :teeth

 

[breausaw]

So when considering new trim tabs 12 x 12 would be a better option? I plan on installing trim tabs and want to make the right decision up front.

 

[Mighty Bite]

Chuck, no problem answering any question you might have on my trim tabs.
I little further explanation is required. The posts that I made earlier with
reference to the trim tabs, which Joe posted above (thanks Joe), are dated.
However the pics he posted are the current ...2nd generation of my mod.

A typical 9" x12" tab should have a surface area of 108". Lenco's 9" x 11" tab
has only 96" of surface because the tabs taper from 9" at the front (hinge)
end to the 7" at the tail of the tab. Very misleading. OK, I made a mock up
of a pair of wings for the tabs which increased the surface area to 10" x 12",
(120 sq, inches) and also eliminated the taper. These simply bolted on to the sides of the Lenco tabs with SS bolts & nuts. Only hassle was drilling the SS, which is slow but doable. This is done with the tabs mounted on the boat. I simply took the mock up that I made to the local metal shop and they copied
it in stainless.

I installed them and they definitely were a big improvement over the standard
Lenco tabs. I run pretty heavy at times though, and I decided I wanted to take
it a step further. I made up another pattern and had the shop fabricate these,
and this is what you're looking at in the pics that Joe posted and the ones in
my album. These turn the tabs into a full 12" x 12" tab. I ran these tabs all
this past season and am very happy with them. I was happy with the others
with the exception of times when I was quite heavy in the back.

I have the first generation tabs in my shop. I figured if anyone wanted them they will come pretty cheap. As you will note on the pics, the second generation tabs are on even plane off the Lenco's and have a 90 degree turn down on the outside. The original tabs had a even 15 degree downward
angle coming off the Lenco's.

The tab extensions (wings) bolt on with 3ea 1/4" SS bolts on each wing.
The actuator appear to handle them great. Not the slightest inkling of a problem.

Dusty, is a real sharp knowledgable mariner, and he is probably right in
saying it's best to use the smallest trim tab that will do the job on a boat.]
I agree completely with him, but for me I needed more tab than the 9" x12"
Lenco offered. But, the above is a great painless way to improve the efficacy of already installed tabs.

If I was rigging a new 22' CD it would be with 12" x 12" tabs without
thinking twice about it.

Sorry to be so long winded. If you want any more info or want a pic of the
first generation SS tab extensions let me know.

As Joe would say,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,CHEERS!

 

[Sea Wolf]

I knew mark would pick up on this thread and update it, so I went ahead and quoted the earlier information so those interested could catch up on the archived information. Thanks, Mark!

Remembering back a little further into the cobwebs of my mind, we had a gentleman known by the handle "Red Fox" who had extended his trim tabs backward to make them 12" x 18"!

This not only yields a staggering increase to 216 square inches, but makes the lever arm of the tabs much longer, dramatically adding to the ability of the tabs to trim the nose (bow) of the boat down.

Another point that you will want to know that he did, however, install a second hydraulic cylinder on each tab to get the necessary mechanical advantage to trim those big "wings"! (This also "slows" down the trim rate with the pistons, since it takes twice as much fluid to make the same angle of adjustment.)

Now I will also have to point out that those of us around back then in the earlier days a few or several years ago were constantly amazed by Red Foxes' constant modifications and inventions of his 1985 Classic C-Dory 22, so much so that it often appeared to be a test bed for the week's new ideas!

And, as you might suspect, as all these changes were tested and kept or modified further, there was a general consensus around that Red Fox, the boat, was getting pretty heavy, and justifying the need for the big super tabs.

We might also note that, to power all these inventions, he also ran a big for the time 115 hp Yamaha 4-stroke main motor which has now become an accepted horsepower rating for the boat for those coming off the assembly line nowadays.

Nonetheless, with all of this in mind, don't forget to consider Dusty's very sage advice to keep the trim tabs as small as practical. He's probably thinking two-fold:

First that larger trim tabs will induce more drag, thus costing you more in the gas mileage department, and secondly,

That trim tabs are a liability in large following seas, since they give the waves from behind a lever arm with which to lift and twist the boat, making it prone to rolling and even broaching! This cannot be emphasized too strongly. Trim tabs must be retracted to the "up" position as far as possible when running before large seas, period. Bigger waves equal bigger risks in the Handling and Broach Department! Hopefully Dusty will elaborate further on his ideas in this area soon.

Like anything else in life, it would seem possible to have too much of a good thing, and boating seems to follow that rule as well.*

As Mark would say, you pays your money, and you takes your chances.

Cheers!

Joe. :teeth

 

[dogon dory]

Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author

 

[Sea Wolf]

Just to illustrate a point, consider the following:

I wrote-

"Like anything else in life, it would seem possible to have too much of a good thing, and boating seems to follow that rule as well."

Just for a laugh, consider a boat with a choice of one, two, and three or more women aboard:

With one, you should be The King! Good on ya'!**************************

With two, you could be the Imperial Wizard, or you could be the Cat Fight Referee, depending on how they got along together. You pays your money and you takes your chances!+++++++++++++++?/?---------------------

With three or more, you'd be the Number One Slave and Whipping Boy ,sleeping out in the cockpit by yourself! Need I say more? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Joe :teeth

 

[Sawdust]

Dusty? My name was mentioned, so clarification needed. One size just doesn’t fit all! Mark is right, and Red Fox is right. I doubt that there is a skipper here at the bar with more rough-water Alaska type cruising than RF. His 22 is about as un-stock as you can get and is a beautifully customized 22. He runs a heavy boat with lots of weight aft and has years of experience.
Mark says he has a lot of weight aft – too many fish, Mark! So he needs more lift aft. Way cool.
I’m a cheap old goat and run a light boat – my six C-Dories and my Bartender were all well-balanced boats. Proper loading (balance) is the key. Running down-sea in heavy stuff with tabs down can give you the “trots.” Too much weight forward will cause the boat to plow and “bow steer,” which is just as bad. Most of us now run heavy 4-stroke motors (mine is a 100 hp Yamaha), and with the heavy main and a kicker Mark’s invention makes a lot of sense.
Dusty