Graphing CD-22 Prices

T

thermopile

New member
I found this really interesting, and thought I would share.

My wife and I (well, mostly me...) have been looking at CD-22 Cruisers (not Anglers). To help me "make my case," I've been jotting down the ASKING prices and years of CD-22 Cruisers over the past 3 months or so. I thought the rest of this group would find this interesting, and maybe thought provoking:

http://picasaweb.google.com/alexenders/CD22Prices/photo#5134691334931229410

Some caveats, as Your Mileage Will Certainly Vary:
- I did not discriminate between number of engines, extras, condition, etc. I'm sure that's a huge source of variability in price that is not adequately characterized.
- I just noted the most recent asking price; where the price was reduced (and I saw it), I lowered it appropriately. I didn't ask each owner what the boat actually sold for.
- I just did a very simple, linear curve fit, which shows the boat starting at $46,735, and losing about $1,200 per year in value. This, I believe, is overly pessimistic. I think the actual value of the boat levels out probably somewhere around $20,000, but was unable to find a good power / exponential fit to the data that make physical sense (or that gave a good rule of thumb of $1200 loss per year).

I apologize in advance if this bruises any egos! I know from personal experience how much it hurts to see cold, hard numbers on the value of a boat that have no bearing on the blood, sweat, and tears you have put into the thing. But I found this interesting enough that I thought I would share.

*EDIT - Changed from inserting an image to just a link ... google's photo hosting doesn't play all that well with bbcode
 
Speaking as someone in the process of buying a 22' Cruiser, I am finding that the extras are very significant in the cost/value of the boat. I began looking at the cost of the boat only, then came the engine(s) and the trailer, which can be another $15,000. Also, a windlass, shore power, and electronics can quickly add up to $3500.00. And the sales tax in WA is currently 8.9% which I had conveniently disregarded initially. Even though I am off your topic somewhat, I am adding my comments because it took me a bit before becoming realistic about an intial cost of the boat. Oh, did I mention I do not have a vehicle with an engine that can pull the boat...

Anne
 
Does not appear linear, a early rapid decline followed by a significant leveling off. Either 2 different lines, or a curve with rapid drop that bends to near horizontal. If you took the mid point of most of the values and just expressed those, it would follow that pattern.

Thanks, certainly valuable data.
 
If ever there was an emotional buying decision, the purchase of a boat has to be at the top of the list. No matter how many graphs, lists of pros & cons, comparisons of different makes, etc, it comes down to: I really want that boat.

If you try to present a logical, statistical case for any boat (unless you make your living on the water and/or live on an island), you'll have to "work" the numbers to make your case. :wink: The only logic I have been able to come up with is: it's cheaper than therapy.

Try the following:
1. Do you really, really, really want this boat?
If yes, go to #2. If no, consider another pasttime.
2. Can you afford this boat?
If yes, go to #3, If no, consider what you can do without and go back to #1.
3. Buy the boat... now you'll be having so much fun you won't have time to mess around with making charts and graphs.

No disrespect intended.

Early on in my career, I learned to ask questions that clients couldn't say "no" to. With this particular boat decison, I asked my wife, "Which do you prefer - the 22 or the 25?" :wink

Good luck,
Jim B.

And to quote the famous philosopher Dixie B - "It doesn't matter what it costs, it's for the boat!" :thup
 
Personally, I think that's the best straight line you can fit. I assume it's a RMS fit to those data. You can see those with the largest variance, and find the reason for such: new engine, lots of extras, etc. If there's no reason for a large disparity, go look at the others. At least it is a good analytical starting point. Next you can start using judgment (wife) and emotion (you.) Dealers hate curves like this.

Boris
 
I've always believed the best way to make out financially on a boat purchase (ie mitigate the damage) is to find something used and in good condition at least 4-5 years old. Let someone else drive it off the lot. The owners of C-Dory boats tend to take excellent care of them. I've seen 10-15 year old 22 cruisers and anglers in virtually showroom condition, ready and able to give many more years of reliable service to a new owner. Too, used vessels nearly always include loads of valuable electronics, trailers, kickers, lines and safety gear, etc. The costs of these for outfitting a new boat are quite high. You're absolutely correct that the bottom price levels out around the low 20K range and from there they hold steady. One major tipping point for price is 2 vs 4 stroke power. As a seller you take a hit if your boat has a 2-stroke motor regardless of condition. Buyers and sellers should know that any C-Dory 22 Cruiser will sell quickly of priced fairly. With fuel prices rising I'd expect this to continue to be the case. Don't worry about your wife; women tend to love C-Dory's: "they're so cute". I ignored what I knew to be true by purchasing our Angler brand new, and now I have to rationalize about saved sales tax due to trading in, the killer deal I got, this is the last boat I'll ever own, etc. Good luck in your noble quest! Mike
 
I would agree with Mike (Westward) about the utility and economy involved with buying a used boat, especially a C-Dory. Additionally, the boats produced in the first 15-20 years or so did not have quality control issues and were very well built.

Joe.
 
You do have to take into account the engines--not only the 4 strokes, but if the boat has been repowered. Many have been repowered, and this can make a significant difference. There are also some boats which are privately sold and don't even make the list here. I know of one older boat--looked a bit rough, but cleaned up well, with a 75, kicker, dinghy, dinghy motor, custom fuel tanks etc, which sold for less than 15K, but it will be repowered at some point, and that cost has to be accounted for.

Also, electronics have changed so much. Many folks want newer chart plotters at least. So if the boat has not had electronics upgraded, then that has to be considered.

All in all, the C Dories have held their value as well, or better than the vast majority of the boats. Plus, there are very few differences in the boats, except the changes in about 1987 and then quite recently.
 
THERMO: The saddest thing I see in all of this is you have been a C-Brat member for over a year now, and still no boat listed. :cry :cry Up in your area there have been some wonderful gatherings, travel and friendships made with these boats. You can not put a value/price on that.

1st CD (of 3) I bought I made better return on investment than 3 of my friends that bought stocks during the same period, and they never went anywhere or met anyone with those stocks.

2nd CD I bought, was in lieu of buying a condo on the beach, a cabin in the mountains or a piece of investment property. Again, many great travels on this boat, some great gatherings, again, with other C-Brats and about 1/4th the cost of a condo.

3rd CD I bought I just could not help myself....one of the CD18s built. At the time I had no idea it was the 14th of 14. Now, what I paid for her, less than $5K and what I have in her now, over $20K, again can only be justified when compared with what else I could have done with those monies. OK, not enough for a cabin, or even a nice out house in the mountains that is serviced reguarly, but, a much better deal for me than one or two 10-14 day cruises to somewhere else in the world...

Again, it is no longer about the C-Dory for me, it is about the folks I have met around the US, the great meals, travels, laughs, and once you get to know a bunch of these folks, the sad times when their pet passes, the happy time when their child graduates from college (generally followed by an upgrade in boat or increase in travel :mrgreen: ), having them in your home and playing around in your local area, and/or going to their home....or, just driving across the country together because you can.

So, just what would have been missing in all of our lives without this site, and the things that bond us. Pretty much priceless to me.

I have never gotten that from land I have bought.
I have never gotten that from vehicles I have bought.
I have never gotten that from any other travel I have been blessed with.

I have only gotten it from being a C-Brat.

Buy a boat of some size, of some age, and join us... We love it!!

Byrdman
 
I feel like we got a great buy in our 1994 22 Angler, and even after our modifications, and sweat, I still think she's worth more than we have invested.
We've owned more boats than most folks, and still own a few too many, but none of them have been as perfect for us as our C Dory. She's the only one that I would never sell...unless they come out with a 25 Angler!
 
Hmmmm.... A boat that is over 20 years old and still worth about half what you paid for it? How many vehicles can say that?

One big factor you've not mentioned is the much higher interest rates on used boat loans compared to newer boat loans. Also, the resale value remaining for you if/when you decide to get another C-Dory.

The true cost is what you paid, minus what you get back, minus what you saved in repairs and time off the water and time stuck on the water in an older boat with older equipment.

For years I bought old boats and fixed them up. It almost always costs more than you figure at the outset, not counting all the time figuring out what to do, how to do it, what parts/tools you need and finding the time to do the fix-ups.

However, just go with what you feel is best for you, what you have to do for now, to get into a C-Dory, and I think you'll find years of enjoyment and good company whichever way you go!

John
 
I looked for a while before the purchase of my cd22. A little advice is to look for cd's in the south. they are not as popular down here. mine only had 100 hrs on it and was well over half retail price. I did have to nag the guy a little. My buying pitch was I could not pay over nada.
 
Undoubtedly the best thing I have ever bought.... I didn't want to mess around looking for a used boat... I just called a dealer and said how soon can I have a boat !!

My wife and I love it... we considered buying a 25 but decided to try a 22 for two years then if we wanted the 25 we would trade up...... we still love our 22 and would not hesitate to buy another.

Joel
SEA3PO
 
Thermopile,
I would suggest that you increase the distance between the years and decrease the scale of asking price. This would make the graph look much better and help your case with the wife.
 
drjohn71a":2orppz5y said:
Hmmmm.... A boat that is over 20 years old and still worth about half what you paid for it? How many vehicles can say that?
<stuff clipped>
John
Click to expand...

It may be even better than that!

My '87 CD-22 only cost the original owner ~$13,200, plus trailer, engine, electronics, etc. Probable total cost ~ $20,000 +/- 10%

I believe I paid a fair market price of $20,500 for the boat 11 years old in 1998.

I added a new 90 HP Yamaha 4-stroke in 2005 for a net after trade in cost of ~$6000.

The probable worth of the boat today is ~$26,000~ $28,000 (considering all of the upgrades, improvements, and condition.)

Of course, some of the costs of the maintenance, upgrades, improvements, etc., will not be retained, but, in general, it looks like we're not seeing much loss at all because of the rise in resale value which is driven by both demand and the comparative cost of a new boat.

Joe. :teeth
 
I think that having a graph of just one boat brand is pretty useless. So a new boat loses value over time, well theres a new flash for you. What I did in my head a long time ago and what you have to add to your chart is how does a c-dory stack up aginst a bayliner or sea sport over the same time. Both compies make 22 alaskan cab outboards with a heater, table, sink, and port-a-potty. So how do those boats hold up over time in value? I think you will find that the c-dory is far more valved then either or the other two.
 
This can go in the useless information bin. Just for fun I took the listing prices for 22 C-Dorys (Classics, Anglers, and Cruisers) from the active sales forum and the historical sales forum for 2007 and graphed them on a semi-log plot. I threw out the prices in Canadian dollars. I had 36 data points remaining, from $12.500 to $52,999, ranging from 1982 through 2007. An eyeball best-fit exponential decline (which is a straight line on a semi-log plot) suggests that asking prices decline about 4.6% per year.
Those of you with Excel could likely make a nice plot with a trendline, but regardless, it's somewhere around 4.5% to 5%. Here are some points along my 4.6% exponential decline. Those familiar with this technique will suspect I anchored on 1985 and 2007, and you would be right.

1982-$15,272
1985-$17,500
1990-$21,958
1995-$27.552
2000-$34,571
2005-$43,378
2007-$47,500

There's a fair amount of scatter in the original data, but if an asking price is way out of whack with this trend I'd think there should be a pretty good reason, whatever that may be And remember, these are asking prices. Have fun!

Mike
 
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