Gas or Diesel for towing my 25?
- Thread starter Socrateur
- Start date
Wandering Sagebrush
Free Range Human
My trailer has surge brakes, and the users guide recommends that you not use a lower gear when descending due to the constant trailer braking and brake heat that this would cause. They recommend braking.
I typically just take the rig out of OD, then brake as needed. I wouldn't mind using a lower gear, but have been hesitant to do so. Anyone have a good or bad experience to relate?
Steve
I typically just take the rig out of OD, then brake as needed. I wouldn't mind using a lower gear, but have been hesitant to do so. Anyone have a good or bad experience to relate?
Steve
I rarely brake, even on the steep Western Grades--I start down the grade at about the same speed I would have been coming up--for a 6 to 7% grade that would be 35 mph. (Slow I realize)--but keep my speed down the grade less than 55 mph max. I do drop down the tranny to keep my speed constant, and have checked the brake temperature at the bottom of several grades--no evidence of over heating. When I do brake, it is short and hard.
I do not have an exhaust brake on the Excursion. There are tow types of exhaust brakes. One is the a back pressure brake--BD, Pac brake, and several other manufactuers makes an aftermarket unit for almost all of the diesel pickups and SUV's-this is basically a valve which restricts the exhaust gas and installs in line in the exhaust system. This is not illegal or noisey.
The second type is a Jacob's valve timing retarder (Jake Brake). "The Jake brake, however, opens the exhaust valve (engine valve, not exhaust tubing valve) just as the air reaches maximum compression, dumping all of that energy in an almost instantaneous explosive release. The result is a very effective slowing of the vehicle as mechanical energy is converted to heat and then dumped. The Jake brake effectively transforms the internal combustion engine into an air compressor. " This dumping of the exhaust gas rapidly, causes a machine gun loud noise--and this has been banned in a number of communities. These are available as a retrofit on Dodge Cummins--not sure if any other pickups can utalize this technology, but I don't believe it is exactly the same as the Jake brake on the larger trucks. Many of the high end RV's have this, as do many on the road trucks.
I do not have an exhaust brake on the Excursion. There are tow types of exhaust brakes. One is the a back pressure brake--BD, Pac brake, and several other manufactuers makes an aftermarket unit for almost all of the diesel pickups and SUV's-this is basically a valve which restricts the exhaust gas and installs in line in the exhaust system. This is not illegal or noisey.
The second type is a Jacob's valve timing retarder (Jake Brake). "The Jake brake, however, opens the exhaust valve (engine valve, not exhaust tubing valve) just as the air reaches maximum compression, dumping all of that energy in an almost instantaneous explosive release. The result is a very effective slowing of the vehicle as mechanical energy is converted to heat and then dumped. The Jake brake effectively transforms the internal combustion engine into an air compressor. " This dumping of the exhaust gas rapidly, causes a machine gun loud noise--and this has been banned in a number of communities. These are available as a retrofit on Dodge Cummins--not sure if any other pickups can utalize this technology, but I don't believe it is exactly the same as the Jake brake on the larger trucks. Many of the high end RV's have this, as do many on the road trucks.
One of the reasons I bought my '08 GMC was the Allison transmission that it comes with. This is a very robust transmission with a manual operation option (shift up and down.) A number of other Brats own GMC or Chev trucks with this trans and are happy with it.
I had a BD exhaust brake on my Dodge (replaced the crappy Pac Brake I originally installed) and it was awesome. I am not sure if I actually need an exhaust brake with the Allison trans -- on my recent trip from WA to UT I was able to keep the speed down without braking at all, using the transmission.
Warren
I had a BD exhaust brake on my Dodge (replaced the crappy Pac Brake I originally installed) and it was awesome. I am not sure if I actually need an exhaust brake with the Allison trans -- on my recent trip from WA to UT I was able to keep the speed down without braking at all, using the transmission.
Warren
Well, I most appreciated the reply of "Journey On," namely that the same reason you buy a C-Dory means you don't need overkill on the towing vehicle. YES, a gasoline engine, even a half ton pickup will do, given how little you say you will be towing. HOWEVER, my brother runs a heavy construction company, and his fleet manager told me to always have much more towing capacity that you technically need. He convinced me to buy a Ford F-350 diesel to tow my Ranger 25, which admittedly weighs more than a C-25. However, I can say that I now see his point:
namely, when you're in the mountains, when the weather is bad, when you are pulling out of a slimey boat ramp, whenever you really need the muscle----it's too late, then, to calculate the fuel mileage or the technical specs.......give me muscle. I love my 2008 F-350, and it handles the weight with no problem whatsoever. GO BIG, unless you want to shave it close. The call is yours.
namely, when you're in the mountains, when the weather is bad, when you are pulling out of a slimey boat ramp, whenever you really need the muscle----it's too late, then, to calculate the fuel mileage or the technical specs.......give me muscle. I love my 2008 F-350, and it handles the weight with no problem whatsoever. GO BIG, unless you want to shave it close. The call is yours.
marvin4239
New member
One thing I failed to mention in my earlier post I've replaced the transmission three times in my 96 Ford Diesel. What I've found in towing RV's for over 30 years is transmissions and drive trains were generally the weak link. I think Ford has overcome the transmission problems they had in their early diesels.
the great news is that now is a GREAT time to buy a tow vehicle. There are many folks selling big trucks right now that are in good condition at low prices. Because you are talking about using it only some of the time, and not as a full time driver.... that is all the more reason to go for a rig big enough to do the job safely. You are much better off getting a ten year old diesel 3/4 or 1 ton truck with a few scratches in the paint or a hole in the upholstery than getting a newer, shinier, quieter 1/2 ton anything. The difference in price will more than pay for all fuel you use in the next several years.
As I said in a similar post: I've never met anyone who wishes they had a smaller vehicle to tow with... but I've met plenty who wish they'd gone with a larger one. The transmissions and brakes on a 3/4 ton truck are significantly larger than those on a half ton. I love my diesel Dodge, and even though a 3/4 ton, is rated at higher towing capacity than the Ford F350 of the same year (2003). It is three times the truck my two different half ton Chevy Suburbans were with their 350 engines and the overheating and braking issues I faced (I live about 1,200 ft. up a 3 mile long hill from the boat ramp). Go beefy, you won't regret it. My friend bought a great Dodge dually 1 ton (used) for $6,500. What a bargain!
C.W.
As I said in a similar post: I've never met anyone who wishes they had a smaller vehicle to tow with... but I've met plenty who wish they'd gone with a larger one. The transmissions and brakes on a 3/4 ton truck are significantly larger than those on a half ton. I love my diesel Dodge, and even though a 3/4 ton, is rated at higher towing capacity than the Ford F350 of the same year (2003). It is three times the truck my two different half ton Chevy Suburbans were with their 350 engines and the overheating and braking issues I faced (I live about 1,200 ft. up a 3 mile long hill from the boat ramp). Go beefy, you won't regret it. My friend bought a great Dodge dually 1 ton (used) for $6,500. What a bargain!
C.W.
I have always favored manual shifters, however, in the last few years they have been unavailable in 1/2 ton trucks. In the Ford and Dodge heavy duty trucks, however, six speed manuals are available with approximately the same towing capacity as the automatics.
Does anyone have any comments about the pros and cons of the manual vs. automatic transmissions in the heavy duty pickups?
Harper
Does anyone have any comments about the pros and cons of the manual vs. automatic transmissions in the heavy duty pickups?
Harper
Wandering Sagebrush
Free Range Human
Pat,
I used to be a manual transmission sort of guy until I started trailer boating with larger boats. I find it so much easier to safely launch and retrieve a boat with an automatic. When I was lifting my canoes and kayaks off the top of the rig it didn't matter, but backing a good size boat down the ramp is a different story.
Another reason that I favor automatics is that I find it a lot easier to maneuver when driving in the back country. My first Toyota 4wd truck had a 5 speed, and it wasn't as easy growling my way over a rough (rocks the size of your head) road when getting to my secret fishing spots. With the automatic, I just ease up to the obstacle, then gently power over it. Could be I am just a clutch clutz, but automatics make life easier.
Steve
I used to be a manual transmission sort of guy until I started trailer boating with larger boats. I find it so much easier to safely launch and retrieve a boat with an automatic. When I was lifting my canoes and kayaks off the top of the rig it didn't matter, but backing a good size boat down the ramp is a different story.
Another reason that I favor automatics is that I find it a lot easier to maneuver when driving in the back country. My first Toyota 4wd truck had a 5 speed, and it wasn't as easy growling my way over a rough (rocks the size of your head) road when getting to my secret fishing spots. With the automatic, I just ease up to the obstacle, then gently power over it. Could be I am just a clutch clutz, but automatics make life easier.
Steve
Those are good points about the benefits of going big. If I were just towing around Lopez that would be one thing, but even there the ramps are steep/mossy/sandy, you name it. And regardless of the low frequency I expect to tow, I will being towing long distance and will face the steep challenges of the mountainous west in changeable weather conditions.
Question about buying a used diesel: I understand gas powered vehicles well and feel confident in my ability to assess their condition when buying used, but I don't know diesels. I have read horror stories such as one person who unknowingly bought a diesel truck with sleeved spark plugs that had been blown out. What are some of the red flags in a used diesel and transmission that I should be looking for?
Question about buying a used diesel: I understand gas powered vehicles well and feel confident in my ability to assess their condition when buying used, but I don't know diesels. I have read horror stories such as one person who unknowingly bought a diesel truck with sleeved spark plugs that had been blown out. What are some of the red flags in a used diesel and transmission that I should be looking for?
Socrateur":edi3fqdn said:
I was in the same boat. I spoke to mechanic friends and folks that had owned/driven them. I also did the logical searches on the internet, but beware of the sources for that info. When I found a suitable truck that met my wants/needs I asked the owners if I could take it for an afternoon. They agreed. I took it to my mechanic and paid him an hour labor for him to go thru the truck and take it for a quick test drive. Well spent $90 IMO.
I need help.The only diesel I have driven with spark plugs was an D8 cat bulldozer, which had a gas powered "pony engine" to start the main diesel in cold weather.
Some diesels have glow plugs--usually electric, but I owned one engine which used "cigarettes"--a punk like material you light with a match, and put into a container to heat the intake.
Also some diesels have sleeved injectors--(as well as sleeved cylinder liners)---so perhaps some mis-understanding of terms?
When buying a used diesel (truck or boat) I have a trained mechanic survey the engine. I agree that transmissions are often the weak point, and the Allison is an excellent transmission--but there are many different versions of the Allison. When I was young I drove manual shift trucks in the mountains during the summers--I don't ever want to go back! However, an auto which can be locked in gear is a great feature.
Some diesels have glow plugs--usually electric, but I owned one engine which used "cigarettes"--a punk like material you light with a match, and put into a container to heat the intake.
Also some diesels have sleeved injectors--(as well as sleeved cylinder liners)---so perhaps some mis-understanding of terms?
When buying a used diesel (truck or boat) I have a trained mechanic survey the engine. I agree that transmissions are often the weak point, and the Allison is an excellent transmission--but there are many different versions of the Allison. When I was young I drove manual shift trucks in the mountains during the summers--I don't ever want to go back! However, an auto which can be locked in gear is a great feature.
ken westrope
New member
regarding diesel tow rigs, I tow my cd-25 6900 lbs not fully loaded to and from banks lake, lake chelan etc. with a 3.0 jeep grand cherokee diesel. works fine and gets 14 mph. should be outstanding for a cd22. I know that eventually I will get to more weight than the 7400 capacity of the jeep but its what works now.
I went ahead and bought a truck; an '02 Ford F250 Lariat 4x4 super cab (extended cab) with the venerable 7.3L diesel engine (I confirmed it has no spark plugs), auto trans. The suspension is optioned up to the equivalent of the one ton F350, so this is a stout tow vehicle. This thing is cool. It has been garaged and very well maintained by a woman who lives on a ranch and used it to tow her horse trailer around the local area for riding on the weekends. One issue: the cab smells like her perfume so now I, in turn, smell like a sissy after going for a drive. It has been kind of embarrassing because when I pulled up to a stop light next to a big Dodge Ram and I'm trying to look cool, the odor wafted over in that direction and the guy gives me a funny look. It wasn't diesel fumes he smelled. I'm hoping this will air out over time.
Even though my preamble to this thread emphasized that my intended use would be limited, the fact that I will be traveling over challenging terrain demands that I have a truck with heavy duty power, and I'll probably be driving more miles with the boat in tow than I originally stated. Thanks for your collective input, much appreciated.
Even though my preamble to this thread emphasized that my intended use would be limited, the fact that I will be traveling over challenging terrain demands that I have a truck with heavy duty power, and I'll probably be driving more miles with the boat in tow than I originally stated. Thanks for your collective input, much appreciated.
I'm highly biased (of course), since I own a 2003 F-250 Turbo Diesel Super Crew 4x4 w/ 8' bed + towing pkg - exceptional torque. Rides like a Cadillac with the long wheel base. It pulls the 25' Cruiser w/ no issues. As I've previously stated (elsewhere [I think]), my only contention with pulling this weight and length of trailer, is still some extremely minor swaying. Even if I were to pick up a tow hitch sway bar, IMO, nothing compares to having a tandem-axle rear-end for absorbing additional sway from the trailer (unless it were to be a fifth wheel hitch in the bed!).
Does your new F-250 have the towing pkg? My towing "button" is located at the end of the gear-shift arm. When enabled for towing, it works great!
Congratulations on your recent purchase!
BTW, to help get rid of that cheap perfume smell - grab some carpet cleaner, brush in the cleaner real well, allow to dry, then give them another layer of the cleaner, brush it in and vaccuum that smell away.
Does your new F-250 have the towing pkg? My towing "button" is located at the end of the gear-shift arm. When enabled for towing, it works great!
Congratulations on your recent purchase!
BTW, to help get rid of that cheap perfume smell - grab some carpet cleaner, brush in the cleaner real well, allow to dry, then give them another layer of the cleaner, brush it in and vaccuum that smell away.
Socrateur":100fh9c4 said:
Could be worse...you could have bought a Dodge, and then LOOKED like a sissy. And that wouldn't air out after a few weeks...
Great choice...that's the exact era I'd look into if needing a new tow vehicle. The older 7.3's have a very minor and debatable advantage engine-wise (forged rods), but the creature comforts and ride of the 99-03 are far superior to the 95-97's.
My 97 rides like a tank - but it's paid for, and given how little use it sees, will probably outlast me.
Yes, it has the towing package with the lockout button on the shifter. It also has the fifth wheel hitch on the bed. At least, it has the frame bracket installed, and the previous owner had a goose neck hitch for the horse trailer. All it needs is a king pin receiver or gooseneck ball, but I doubt that converting a boat trailer to use this would be an option. Has anyone heard of that being done?
