Fuel additives

M

Micahbigsur@msn.com

New member
The current Practical Sailor tests E15 corrosion additive protection, my old favorite Startron dropped from it's last testing, the only ones that passed their test (or did the best on fuel system corrosion) were a tie between Biobar EB and Sta-bil 360 marine. They did not test the Yamaha additive. They set up the test to mimic water condensation in tanks or moist air in through vents. I know that here In California we only use marine E10 % gas and never service station E15, but Boat US is currently lobbying against a federal change to all E15.

They also have an excellent article on plastic fuel tanks and bladders.
 
We have no ethanol free gas available in California, so we need more than ring free.
The "third world" gas in Mexico is great, they have big modern outboards running great everywhere with no worries.
 
I never add fuel without more blue stabil at a rate of 1 oz to 5 gallons & in 17 seasons have been forced to put ethanol gas in fuel tanks only a couple times. Also never a fuel related problem over these years with instant starts after storage from the long Wyoming winter turning to spring/summer.
 
Micah and Dana. I have heard that in California, one can no longer buy non-ethanol fuel. Do you know if that is true? I used to live in the Bay Area many years ago and was able to buy non-ethanol fuel back then. Research shows that ethanol in fuel absorbs moisture and goes bad (starts to gel) in as little as 3 months in the tank. The use of it is regularly is really hard on rubber hoses and will deteriorate and make the rubber soft. It is good to be concerned about the fuel sitting in our tanks over the winter but hopefully you are not using ethanol in your boat by choice as I read your post. Non ethanol fuel costs more at the pump but is cheaper in the long run when compared to engine and fuel line repair. I encourage all boaters to use non-ethanol fuel in your boats. There is a lot of information out there on the web. Please do not just take my word for it.

Thanks, Gary.
 
Just as many people say ethanol fuel has never caused a problem as people who say it should be avoided at all costs.

Modern fuel system components and gas engines can handle 10% ethanol without any problems. Because of the ubiquity of 10% gas (98% of gas sold), manufacturers would be foolish not to make fuel system components ethanol compatible. Ethanol has been used in gasoline since the 70's, and the adoption of E10 was mandated by the clean air act in 1990. Ethanol in fuel is nothing new.

There is a risk of phase separation if the gas is stored in poor conditions. If it occurs and you run the engine on the bad gas you can have problems. Using stabilizers and checking the gas after storage periods can prevent issues.

One thing West Marine says is "E10 may actually be a superior marine fuel, as it tends to keep low levels of water moving through the fuel system, keeping the system “dry”. "

The engine in my boat is the same pretty much (according to Honda) as the one in my Honda car. If it can handle E10 gas, so will my outboard. The fuel system components in my boat are from the auto parts store (mostly), so no worries there either. I store my boat in the mid Atlantic region for about 5 months over the winter. I put stabilizer in whatever fuel is left over from the season and leave it at that. In the spring I top off with new fuel and off we go. I get most of my boat gas at whatever gas station is closest to the ramp.
 
I use E10 from Costco pretty much all the time without any fuel system problems. My Suzuki manual says up to 10% ethanol is fine.

If the boat will be sitting for a while I sometimes add Startron but I really think that is more of a feel good thing than anything else. It sure doesn't help my little 2-stroke Stihl motors any. I have used the blue Sta-bil in the past and did not see any benefit from it, either.

I can get ethanol free gas at the Astoria fuel dock for right about a buck fifty more per gallon but the motor seems to run better on the E10. The gas at the dock may be a lower grade, or maybe even a higher octane, and usually has a little water in it that shows up in the filter bowl so I actually prefer to cart the cheaper gas down in cans when the boat is in the slip.

Costco gas is top tier and always fresh and clean. It is good enough for my black car and good enough for my black outboard. Plus, there are some old guys working there so when I take the car in for premium gas I can say "fill 'er with ethyl" and they know what I mean.

Most fuel additives are just mighty expensive lighter fluid with 5% other ingredients including some mythical enzyme that may or may not do the same as the fuel line magnets from the '60s that aligned the gas molecules and deionized the fuel. (That is a joke, of course ... or is it?)
 
There may be a few specialty fuel stations with pure gas in California in the biggest population areas but none near us. We have 15% almost everywhere with rumours about 10 that I haven't found on any actual pump label. My new Suzuki 200's warranty is void on over 10% ethanol but is fine with 10%. All our marine fuel docks have 10% but it costs $5 a gallon. Practical Sailors article was about the danger of alcohol tendency to absorb moisture in over time in storage and causing fuel system corrosion, they tested to find which if any additives slowed corrosion against the pure gas control sample. They used metal tabs that are used in standardized fuel corrosion testing. Of several tested only 2 were effective against alcohol/water borne corrosion. They didn't test for ethanol phase separation but gave advice on various ways to prevent it such as moisture absorbing filters in vents in wet or humid areas and trying run the boat enough to keep the gas fresh. I seem to remember that in past testing no additives prevented phase separation if ethanol blends had absorbed to much water. They also said water separator fuel filters have a hard time separating out the water when it is mixed with ethanol but small amounts aren't damaging.
Unfortunately I think you have to be a subscriber to read the online version of Practical Sailor and see their scientific testing articles. (pricey as they don't have advertising).
 
TyBoo":1ozfvvil said:
...Plus, there are some old guys working there so when I take the car in for premium gas I can say "fill 'er with ethyl" and they know what I mean....
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I guess OR still has that silly law that says you can't pump you own gas.

NJ does it for competitive reasons. OR seems to think that civilians are not competent enough to pump their own gas and it's a job that requires a professional.
 
ssobol":zocj9331 said:
I guess OR still has that silly law that says you can't pump you own gas.
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I like that silly law! The truth is, most Oregonians like it and do not want it changed. The folks - young and old - who have jobs pumping gas like it. There would be at least five fewer folks working at our small Costco if that silly law went away, and has been shown at every big store in the country with almost mandatory self checkout, fewer folks working does not equal lower prices.

If we wanted to pump our own gas we would change the law as we did for the smaller outlets that are staffed with only one person or closed after hours. There are many small fuel outlets that allow self serve through the night. They certainly do not lower the pump price at dark.

We really could do away with the gas pump prohibition if we wanted, but that isn't as easy with other things. I think the majority of Oregonians would like to see the ethanol requirements changed but our voting ranks seem to be outnumbered by corn farmers across the country so we haven't really tried. We also want to do away with the DST time change, but since we prefer to stay an hour ahead instead of on standard time we are outnumbered by unaffected voters on that one, too.

All that being said, I do handle the pumping when filling the boat at Costco. All the friendly attendant does is open another lane when they see me coming and hand me the nozzle when I am ready. I am also looking into expanding my card lock status so I can pump ethanol free gas myself for the winter storage months but haven't been in a hurry because locally they only offer pure gas in the higher octane premium grade and at a higher price. I need to see if the big Suzuki likes the higher octane, I guess.

And yes, I will still use fuel stabilizer for the last fill up! I may suspect that it is a gimmick, but it doesn't cost too much to remain sitting comfortably on the fence.
 
TyBoo, I have 6 Stihl saws, small to large (some of our redwoods are 7' through and we use the ones that get blown down) I always used to run the ethanol gas out of them for storage to keep the carbs good. That doesn't seem a very practical solution on large outboards. My new thing with the saws is to buy the small cans of ethanol free gas premix that are also stabilized at Home depot to finish the tanks with and I have had no problems and they are easier to start next use. That would also work on small outboards.
 
ssobol":3etlpay3 said:
Just as many people say ethanol fuel has never caused a problem as people who say it should be avoided at all costs.
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Presently with the majority of the outboards running being fuel injected & most of the old fuel lines & tanks replaced this could likely be a true statement, but not during the period before, when so many were having problems in these areas. Few were as fortunate as me with my just replaced 1999 Honda 40’s to not require carburetor cleaning, adjusting or replacing in 19 years & 2365 hours of running, while going through long periods of storage each year. With my new fuel injected motors, I will likely join Mike on the fence by only adding the stabil before periods of storage & not be so concerned about non ethanol only in the fuel tanks. I do know people who have had major fuel problems from buying non ethanol gas at fuel stations where the gas was water contaminated most likely from being at the station to long from lack of sales volume. They commented in the future, they would only buy non ethanol fuel from a station with high volume sales or buy top tier fuel with the 10% ethanol & I agree with this being best practice. Fortunately SE Alaska the area where I’ve been most concerned about a fuel related problem, sells only ethanol free fuel at the marine fuel stations, so it has not been a concern at all once there.

I do know there’s no fence sitting for me when it comes to all of my small 4 stroke motors with carburetors like the Honda generator & the 2.5 & 6 hp Suzuki outboards, chainsaw, lawnmowers & ATV. These still are only fueled with ethanol free gas with stabil added. Maybe the additives are a scam, but I’ve had enough fuel issues in this area over the years, which stopped with the careful use of additives to be convinced of their value.
 
I use 100% dyno gas in all my small engines. I get it at the farm co-op and it’s expensive. I’ll use any leftover in my old, air-cooled VWs. I usually have 15 gallons on hand. I put the red Stabil in each jug prior to filling, since it will sit for up to six months.
 
My experience with carbureted engines that there is a major problem with ethanol gas. It has happened time and time again. With non ethanol no issue. With the injected engines, Stabil and Startron (although it is more like some the :"magic" when you back to the source articles in the UK), I put in regularly. If it is going to be a long time between runs I would pump the gas out of the boat into my Yukon. But now with a diesel--not sure if Marie will let me put it in her new Lincoln.

Honda 90's went to injection in 2007, so Sobol's 2008 Honda is immune. Believe me if you had an earlier Honda, you would agree that there is a problem leaving the fuel in the carbs over 3 months.

The farmers get blamed--but it is the "Greenies" and big corporations, not the farmers per say. We grow "feed corn"--price is really low, as it is with soy--due to tariff problems, not Etoh problem, as well as competition from S. America.
 
BrentB":lehfy3br said:
Fuel additives excel in clever adversting!
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No doubt there’s some clever folk in that business, but to keep people like me departing with their cash for the product over an extended time period, we must conclude the benefit likely exceeding the cost & at this point advertising no longer revelant.
 
Micahbigsur@msn.com":3w52s0ck said:
TyBoo, I have 6 Stihl saws, small to large (some of our redwoods are 7' through and we use the ones that get blown down) I always used to run the ethanol gas out of them for storage to keep the carbs good. That doesn't seem a very practical solution on large outboards. My new thing with the saws is to buy the small cans of ethanol free gas premix that are also stabilized at Home depot to finish the tanks with and I have had no problems and they are easier to start next use. That would also work on small outboards.
Click to expand...

I do the exact same with my stihl saw in summer: trufuel for the last fill up in spring and run it dry for the fire season. Before I started doing this I blew carbs and gummed up parts and seemed like I had two saws on constant repair rotation. Now just one saw and it fires up every time. Going to try it on the dinghy motor. Solid idea
 
I have a 2002 Honda 90 on Problemadela, carbed of course. I had intended to repower within a year or two after I bought but this motor has been perfect. I try to use ethanol-free gasoline when I can, but it is not always possible. I do add Seafoam. I used to pop the fuel connection off and run the engine until it ran out of fuel, but realized that this left some ethanol gasoline in the carbs. Now, when I finish the day, I pop the main tank connection off, attach a small portable tank and run a few ounces of the Husqvarna ethanol-free, stabilized gas from the cans. If it is going to be more than a month or two before use again, I drain the gasoline from the main tanks and put it in my truck. I do this with lawn mowers and generators too. Given that my Honda is working on 18 years, I seem to have remarkably few problems. Actually, none. Based on what I have heard, including comments above, running the motor out of gas, not using old gas, and using Seafoam can help with many of the problems of ethanol gas in carbed engines. The idea of "finishing off" the motor use with stabilized gas from the cans seems like a good idea if you plan to keep you carbed motor a long time too.
 
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