Freezer/Refrigerators, portable
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Gilbertsons
New member
Thanks Bob and Patty! You guys make us feel so welcome.
Next time we are together at Powell, I'm sure we can compare solar notes and enjoy icy sundowners and ice cream from our freezers!
Next time we are together at Powell, I'm sure we can compare solar notes and enjoy icy sundowners and ice cream from our freezers!
Follow up: The new freezer came on Tuesday (had to chase the 18 wheeler all over town to get the unit.)
It is identical to the old unit. I put it on 34 degrees with a gallon of water in the unit. After 24 hours it was 33 degrees in the compartment. There was no ice in the water (the old unit was frozen solid at this temp setting). The LCD read 32 degrees. So I turned it down to 30 degrees last night. The unit reads 29 degrees on the LCD, the water is all frozen and the temp in the freezer is 30 degrees.
Conclusion--the old unit ran fine, but it was just the thermistor. We will order a new Thermistor experiment with placement to see where it will give us results similar to the new unit.
Most likely next year, we will use the new unit as a refrigerator, and the old unit as a freezer--no ice chest--we will try this combo on some short trips before the long trip.
At this point, the factor which will determine length of stay, without going to a marina, would be water (we can carry enough fuel for 300 miles plus at displacement speeds, and a few gallons for the generator are easy. Water is only for drinking. 25 gallons goes a long way, and we use lake water for cooking, and all washing etc.
I'll be comparing the current draw of the two units in the next week. But I suspect that they will be similar for similar temperatures. Will also report on thermistor results.
It is identical to the old unit. I put it on 34 degrees with a gallon of water in the unit. After 24 hours it was 33 degrees in the compartment. There was no ice in the water (the old unit was frozen solid at this temp setting). The LCD read 32 degrees. So I turned it down to 30 degrees last night. The unit reads 29 degrees on the LCD, the water is all frozen and the temp in the freezer is 30 degrees.
Conclusion--the old unit ran fine, but it was just the thermistor. We will order a new Thermistor experiment with placement to see where it will give us results similar to the new unit.
Most likely next year, we will use the new unit as a refrigerator, and the old unit as a freezer--no ice chest--we will try this combo on some short trips before the long trip.
At this point, the factor which will determine length of stay, without going to a marina, would be water (we can carry enough fuel for 300 miles plus at displacement speeds, and a few gallons for the generator are easy. Water is only for drinking. 25 gallons goes a long way, and we use lake water for cooking, and all washing etc.
I'll be comparing the current draw of the two units in the next week. But I suspect that they will be similar for similar temperatures. Will also report on thermistor results.
This is slightly "reverse information," but the main reason I didn't go with an Engel was that I wanted the lid to open in the "normal" cooler direction (i.e. hinges on long side), and almost all of the Engels opened the opposite way (hinges on short side). Otherwise I didn't see any particular reason not to consider them when I was researching. They do use a different compressor than many others (Sawafuji vs. Danfoss), but it looked like they both had their proponents and detractors in somewhat similar measures.
Really, I was somewhat undecided. Other than the National Luna (fantastic looking, but very expensive and somewhat hard to find in stock), none of the others really stood out, and - not having used one - I really wasn't sure what I wanted/didn't want in the way of details/size/etc. The price of the Dometic CF-50 was so good that I went with that one (despite that the lid seemed a bit weak) since I didn't have any concrete reason to choose one of the other ones that cost a fair bit more. Figured if I was going to have regrets after knowing more about how I would use one, I'd rather have them for less money :lol:
So I guess I kind of backed into the choice of models :wink:
Really, I was somewhat undecided. Other than the National Luna (fantastic looking, but very expensive and somewhat hard to find in stock), none of the others really stood out, and - not having used one - I really wasn't sure what I wanted/didn't want in the way of details/size/etc. The price of the Dometic CF-50 was so good that I went with that one (despite that the lid seemed a bit weak) since I didn't have any concrete reason to choose one of the other ones that cost a fair bit more. Figured if I was going to have regrets after knowing more about how I would use one, I'd rather have them for less money :lol:
So I guess I kind of backed into the choice of models :wink:
Molly Brown
Member
If I read correctly, the ice run was a courtesy for some folks who did not have powered coolers. Daydream's comment was from a power perspective, i.e. only ran the generator once besides a run for ice (which wasn't for them). May be my attempt at explaining is as clear as mud, lol
Will-C":wa9bxpg9 said:I wondered about a couple things. Is true that someone having a 800 dollar + refridge/freezer replete with solar panels to help keep the batteries strong and still had to make a couple ice runs? How did the others exist without the electric freezers and refridges?
D.D.
Dave, there were 5 boats at the gathering that had freezers to my knowledge. Two of those had solar panels, which seemed to be adequate in their 'home" cruising grounds, but in the higher ambient heat of Lake Powell, were not quite adequate. The 200 watt set (Day Dream) did not track, and was angled to each side (see the photos above) and required one run of the generator, plus several trips where the outboard which put out about 40 amps for 2 to 3 hours, which also helped to keep the batteries fully charged. The other boat with panels had panels which could track by two axis, the path of the sun, and these were just slightly undersized (I believe that there were 2 60 amp panels--we figured at another 60 amp panel would be sufficient.
Freezers tend to be used for frozen food. I cannot speak for all of the boats, but we had frozen food for a month, I believe Daydream had food for at least 2 1/2 weeks. The ice chests were used for dairy products, juices, beer, soda etc.
In the past, we have been on the lake for 2 to 3 weeks with only an ice chest--making ice runs on a regular basis. We have used the chest time refer/freezer for quite some time (over 30 years) as a supplement to ice chests or other sources of food. Often this was used for extra food (beyond the capacity of a built in freezer or refrigerator), and then full of frozen fish when we returned home.
Many of the boats were only on the lake for a week--and they had to make at least one ice run somewhere along the way.
As I believe I mentioned in previous posts, there are many ways to have food for prolonged time--using anywhere from dehydrated and back backing type of food, caned food, as well as fresh food--and catching fish etc. You could go to the survivalist mode (probably a bit difficult in the currentLake Powell environment), to what the "mountain men" did, with some corn meal, and flour, and then procuring game or fish.
Bob,
I didn't know Pat was making ice runs for other people that did not have freezers. It seems a lot of people tend to have both an ice chest and a freezer which for me seems like extra weight and space that I myself would not want to deal with plus the additional battery issues, solar panels etc. For me I can't imagine a months worth of food fitting into a 50 quart freezer either. I was thinking about getting a unit like Pat has but I don't want to have to have both a cooler and a freezer. That fine for other people but does not fit my m.o. Thanks for the updates.
D.D.
I didn't know Pat was making ice runs for other people that did not have freezers. It seems a lot of people tend to have both an ice chest and a freezer which for me seems like extra weight and space that I myself would not want to deal with plus the additional battery issues, solar panels etc. For me I can't imagine a months worth of food fitting into a 50 quart freezer either. I was thinking about getting a unit like Pat has but I don't want to have to have both a cooler and a freezer. That fine for other people but does not fit my m.o. Thanks for the updates.
D.D.
Dave,
There were a number of boats which picked up ice for other boats. I got some once--and I believe that Pat did also. On the other hand Pat got Ice for some folks on one of the runs.
No problem with a months meals in a 50 quart freezer. Marie typically makes frozen main dishes for our 3 month summer trips before we leave home. She selects the 30 or so we need for the time on Powell, and they fit fine--each in its own sealed bag, and labeled. We don't use "boxes" from the freezer shelfs, which take up a lot of room. For frozen veggies, we use bulk bags if we need them.
The question for us is 50 quarts enough room for the "cooler" items for a month. I believe so--but ideally I would have gone with a refrigerator chest the size of the cooler we use (105 quarts).
Again it is what you want and how you use the boat. We use the chests as seats and steps. The weight is an issue only if you want to go fast. . At displacement speeds--which you are more likely to use on a longer trip--especially in a place like Powell, make little difference in fuel consumption. Plus, not needing ice, there is not the need to dash back the 50 miles to pick up ice (and burn up 10 plus gallons of gas). So in the long run, having the refer/freezers separate, with extra battery may save you fuel--and make the cruise far more enjoyable.
There were a number of boats which picked up ice for other boats. I got some once--and I believe that Pat did also. On the other hand Pat got Ice for some folks on one of the runs.
No problem with a months meals in a 50 quart freezer. Marie typically makes frozen main dishes for our 3 month summer trips before we leave home. She selects the 30 or so we need for the time on Powell, and they fit fine--each in its own sealed bag, and labeled. We don't use "boxes" from the freezer shelfs, which take up a lot of room. For frozen veggies, we use bulk bags if we need them.
The question for us is 50 quarts enough room for the "cooler" items for a month. I believe so--but ideally I would have gone with a refrigerator chest the size of the cooler we use (105 quarts).
Again it is what you want and how you use the boat. We use the chests as seats and steps. The weight is an issue only if you want to go fast. . At displacement speeds--which you are more likely to use on a longer trip--especially in a place like Powell, make little difference in fuel consumption. Plus, not needing ice, there is not the need to dash back the 50 miles to pick up ice (and burn up 10 plus gallons of gas). So in the long run, having the refer/freezers separate, with extra battery may save you fuel--and make the cruise far more enjoyable.
We have been doing an experiment on this "Road trip". I put in a Group 24 AGM battery in our Yukon XL, along with a Blue Seas ACL (there was a mount for a second battery in the engine compartment) We have kept the Dometic Refer/freezer at 33 degrees for over 3 weeks now running on this battery, and charging it as we just ran about town daily, with occasionally 80 mile plus runs. The battery is fully charged at the end of each day, and the unit remains at 33 degrees, keeping food well. So using the domestic in a vehicle on a constant basis is very feasible. Certainly it will work well "on the road" with a charging circuit to the battery dedicated to the refer.
Robert H. Wilkinson
New member
Bob, the new units must be a lot more efficient than the old ones. I have a Dometic 3 way camp cooler that is I suspect 25 or more years old. We used it going out west a few years ago in the Tahoe. I would leave it plugged in at night when we stopped at a motel. No special wiring, I just took a wrench and disconnected 1 of the start batteries for the diesel. July so it started easy on 1 battery. In the morning I reconnected both batteries, started the diesel then disconnected the full battery and ran at least half the day on the depleted battery to give it full charging amps. This seemed to work OK but I'm sure it pretty much drained the group 27 battery over night(12 -14 hours).
It is an absorption cooling unit by the way. That was 1 reason I wanted it left running over night. It takes longer for an absorption unit to bring the temp down.
Regards, Rob
It is an absorption cooling unit by the way. That was 1 reason I wanted it left running over night. It takes longer for an absorption unit to bring the temp down.
Regards, Rob
I figure this is the best of the threads to put this on.
I have one of the "jackets for the Dometic (WAECO)50 freezer/refer. I put that on the new one, so the old did not have any extra insulation for Lake Powell's high temps.
I had purchased a 4 x 8 (I think) 1/2" styrofoam panel, which we made some window coverings for the inside of the RV. We are brought the reflective bubble foil along this trip, and the styrofoam/foil panels were in the basement of the RV.
I cut panels for each side of the freezer, with a cutout for the motor ventilation areas. I then made end pieces to fit inside of the outer panels. I used duct tape (triple on the outside, and single on the inside of each corner. After the freezer was in its position in the boat (freezer on the stb, refer on the port, dry box between--these are used as seats in the cockpit.)
I took the handles off the ends, and slipped this box over the freezer (nice and tight fit). I taped all of the "raw edges" of the styrofoam board. There is a vinyl vapor barrier on the inside, and the reflective foil on the outside. I then made a "lid" for the top--reflective side out, "Hinge" of triple duct tape. I figure this will make the freezer about 25 to 30% more efficient for a few dollars. This is also an option for the nice $70 jacket which you can buy from Dometic.
I have one of the "jackets for the Dometic (WAECO)50 freezer/refer. I put that on the new one, so the old did not have any extra insulation for Lake Powell's high temps.
I had purchased a 4 x 8 (I think) 1/2" styrofoam panel, which we made some window coverings for the inside of the RV. We are brought the reflective bubble foil along this trip, and the styrofoam/foil panels were in the basement of the RV.
I cut panels for each side of the freezer, with a cutout for the motor ventilation areas. I then made end pieces to fit inside of the outer panels. I used duct tape (triple on the outside, and single on the inside of each corner. After the freezer was in its position in the boat (freezer on the stb, refer on the port, dry box between--these are used as seats in the cockpit.)
I took the handles off the ends, and slipped this box over the freezer (nice and tight fit). I taped all of the "raw edges" of the styrofoam board. There is a vinyl vapor barrier on the inside, and the reflective foil on the outside. I then made a "lid" for the top--reflective side out, "Hinge" of triple duct tape. I figure this will make the freezer about 25 to 30% more efficient for a few dollars. This is also an option for the nice $70 jacket which you can buy from Dometic.
Addendum: After Marie filled the freezer up with 30 days worth of food, she came in to the RV--the freezer light is off, and it is not working! Opened the nice tight new styrofoam lid, punched the button, and power came on. Closed the lid, opened it again--power off. The lit was hitting the "power" button. So, make a cutout for the area of the buttons and LED temp!
After a recent trip we are interested in a small freezer for making cooler ice blocks. We have two 50qt cooler/seats, one we use for drinks and one for refrigerated food. We have no real need for frozen food due to our relatively short trips durations of 5-8 days max. Imagine the different sizes of plastic jugs we could freeze to use in coolers... What size/s do you think we would need in each cooler if we swapped them out once a day in cooler conditions and maybe twice in hot conditions. Assume we are not adding a bunch of new, un-cooled contents but primarily maintaining the goods we have.
I am thinking maybe 1qt to 1/2gal volume per cooler of ice?
They are 5 day coleman extreme coolers.
Tired of running for ice when we don't need anything else,
Greg
I am thinking maybe 1qt to 1/2gal volume per cooler of ice?
They are 5 day coleman extreme coolers.
Tired of running for ice when we don't need anything else,
Greg
We have a new Engel Md14F in the boat now and the testing has already started. I am using square-ish shaped Fuji water bottles as ice units for now and watching time and AH used to accomplish different freeze cycles at various settings. The unit draws .5-2.7 amps depending on setting and level of cooling needed. So Far, I have determined that it takes about 20 hours to hard freeze a full load of water bottles on the coldest setting drawing about 2.5 amps average per hour for that cooling period. This is what I would do before we leave for a trip.
I also tested from frozen, the swapout of two frozen 1 liter bottles for two thawed bottles on setting 3 and they were frozen solid in about 14 hours with about 1.5amps average consumed per hour for that period. This is close to what we would do each day of a trip to maintain one 50qt cooler of drinks and food.
I have more testing to do and am on the lookout for other ice pack alternatives (arctic ice Alaskan packs look promising), but I am estimating we would get a little over 4 days of daily ice pack swaps with our house bank capacity given no charging or significant accessory use. I think this will be adequate for us given our pattern of moving/charging nearly every day of every trip. Just in case, I am keeping informed of our solar options and would be interested to hear you thoughts on the following.
Given a 20qt, "5 day" Colman Extreme cooler 1/2-3/4 full of pre-cooled food and drinks, how much "ice" do you think it will take assuming that amount is refreshed once per day?
I am planning to start with (2) 1 liter frozen bottles or (4) pint bottles, or perhaps two of these in the 2.5lb size.
http://www.amazon.com/Arctic-Ice-Alaska ... P80JW8KDD4
Greg
I also tested from frozen, the swapout of two frozen 1 liter bottles for two thawed bottles on setting 3 and they were frozen solid in about 14 hours with about 1.5amps average consumed per hour for that period. This is close to what we would do each day of a trip to maintain one 50qt cooler of drinks and food.
I have more testing to do and am on the lookout for other ice pack alternatives (arctic ice Alaskan packs look promising), but I am estimating we would get a little over 4 days of daily ice pack swaps with our house bank capacity given no charging or significant accessory use. I think this will be adequate for us given our pattern of moving/charging nearly every day of every trip. Just in case, I am keeping informed of our solar options and would be interested to hear you thoughts on the following.
Given a 20qt, "5 day" Colman Extreme cooler 1/2-3/4 full of pre-cooled food and drinks, how much "ice" do you think it will take assuming that amount is refreshed once per day?
I am planning to start with (2) 1 liter frozen bottles or (4) pint bottles, or perhaps two of these in the 2.5lb size.
http://www.amazon.com/Arctic-Ice-Alaska ... P80JW8KDD4
Greg
Salmon Fisher
Member
Greg,
Keep your results coming as we now have an ARB 50 qt unit, but I have not started testing yet. We too, grew tired of running for ice last, hot summer. We will carry the 100 qt Engel cooler for items not needing extreme cold and will have the ARB on hand for frozen food and possibly making ice like you.
We now have a single group 24 flooded battery for the house. I am exploring the use of 2- Grp 27 or 31 flooded batteries for house. Do you think that is adequate? We also have a Honda 2000 generator for charging, making hot water for showers.
Thanks for your expertise.
Patrick
Keep your results coming as we now have an ARB 50 qt unit, but I have not started testing yet. We too, grew tired of running for ice last, hot summer. We will carry the 100 qt Engel cooler for items not needing extreme cold and will have the ARB on hand for frozen food and possibly making ice like you.
We now have a single group 24 flooded battery for the house. I am exploring the use of 2- Grp 27 or 31 flooded batteries for house. Do you think that is adequate? We also have a Honda 2000 generator for charging, making hot water for showers.
Thanks for your expertise.
Patrick