Freezer/Refrigerators, portable

A bit more research and finally finding a local tech who was kind enough to work witth me (even though he has never seen one of these units)-and will order the part from Dometic. (But it is also on line for $18 to $25.) This is a known and fairly common problem on these units. In fact WAECO was including two of the Thermistors in the units, until bought out by Dometic. You could just switch out the plugs--cost about $2.50 to Dometic! Unfortunately mine only has the original, so I will have to replace it, or just put one inside of the freezer box…There are a number of "solutions" on the internet.

Dometic was no help. After describing the issues, and asking for a tech to reply, I got this:
My apologies, but unfortunately we do not have any technicians on staff for the retail customer. I have tried looking a bit in your area for possible service centers you could contact for possible repairs. I've listed them below.
Click to expand...

Of the 15 names and numbers I have from Dometic (on line, phone call and e-mail. 10 were more than 50 miles away, 5 were in our area. In our area, 3 were out of business, one was a person I deal with regularly, and he refers his refrigeration business out--no clue as to who does this work. The other is a tech who I am talking to. The others, 5 were out of business, and the others did not work on the chest type unit--didn't even know they existed! Terrible customer service.

I also found out that some folks have modified the fans and routing of the cooling flow. This is one way I will go. I did check the connections in the circuit board and they seemed to be good. Next week, I'll take the fan/compressor section apart, and probably put in a new thermistor...
 
Bob, it is frustrating when you pay big $ for something and it develops a problem just after the warranty runs out. Years ago I bought a Dometic camp refrigerator at my neighbors garage sale. Paid $30. for it and I can't kill it! I have no idea how old it is but it was made in Luxembourgh and supplied by Euroclean Canada. It is a 3 way model # RC160. Claims to draw .65amp on 120v and 6.5amp on 12v. From my experience it uses about one pound of propane per day. The absorption refer units take longer to cool down the contents but after that I have found them very efficient.

Sounds like you have done the research but here are 2 sites that I found.
CUSTOMERSUPPORTCENTER@DOMETICUSA.COM
AND
DOMETIC.JUSTANSWER.COM/

Regards, Rob

P.S. There is also a website where you can punch in your model # and it will check if there has been any recalls on it.
 
Thanks Rob. I have had some Dometic products in the past which were great. But I also had a high end ($6,500) 14 cu ft adsorption Refrigerator/freezer in the RV--which just did not work well--replaced with a $1000 Sansumg dual compressor unit, which works better than the home unit.

The customer support site is where I got the bad information--with the exception of the one tech, who is helpful. The "Just ask" is simplistic, and not actually a Dometic site. No recalls on this unit.

There is one resource I have used with other companies, and that is "Investor Relations" I have found that a well worded letter on my company letterhead, often gets good results. I may try this down the line, as I see what develops.


Sunbeam:
I recently bought a CF-50 on the closeout sale. The new models look nice, but most sizes aren't available here yet from what I could see (only found the really small and really large), and it looks like they no longer have Danfoss compressors.... so who knows if they are better or worse... ("genuine Waeco compressors" now).
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by the "Close out sale"--since the CF 50 seems to be still offered. The only change from my 2 year old unit and the current units are a "Turbo" quick chill function. (Perhaps yours like mine does not have the quick chill) However, the compressor in my unit is a Danfoss compressor (BD35F)--I just checked that out visually. I also checked the Dometic web site which also confirms that the current CF 50 has a Danfoss compressor. I should have checked this out earlier. Also the CF110 and CF 80 which would be the next one I would buy, if I stay with Dometic, are shown too have Danfoss Compressors (BD50F).
 
Hi Bob!
Sorry that unit is not performing right for you.

At last years Apalachicola gathering, when I asked you about any 'preventive maintenance' I could pay a pro for, for the RV Coleman rooftop AC and it's 1 year warranty, you sort of implied (as I recollect, and my memory is not that sharp any more), that it's 'sort of a disposable unit that you replace rather than repair' for $800. As I get more experience with these issues, I now agree with you 100%.

Although it's very annoying when a $1000 item has a 12 month warranty (2 yrs for yours) and it fails like it it has a timer on it, I get irritated too. The $1000 windlass and $2000 Garmin MFD have only 12 month warranties with absurd limitations.

Just as a boating philosophy question...why is your Dometic fridge any different than your Coleman rooftop AC in being a disposable unit engineered to last not much more than its warranty?

Hyundai replaced our 2012 Genesis 5.0 entire wiper motor when it would intermittently fail to work, and the entire Lexicon stereo amp when the stereo would intermittently refuse to turn on, even when neither could be demonstrated to the service manager. If only boat dealers could work like that!

Thanks for the great link to the article comparing these type units; I would never have found that!

Where can I get me a 80 Qt Dometic for $749? that sounds like a steal!

Thanks for your willingness to share your vast experience! We Brats don't thank you enough!

Cheers!
John
 
thataway":15m8f0q7 said:
Not sure what you mean by the "Close out sale"--since the CF 50 seems to be still offered.
Click to expand...

Well, PPL and some other places had them on sale. And I saw that in Australia they now seem to sell mainly the new CFX model, and some places here sell th CFX as well, but only the small or large ones, not the medium size I wanted. They look beefier (not sure if they actually are or not) and have "modern" features (I don't need) such as a USB port. The compressor in the new ones no longer says it is Danfoss but "genuine Waeco." If the lid were beefier and I could have got one in the size I wanted I probably would have gone for one of those.

I also looked at the National Luna. But places I called were either out of stock or said they were dropping the line due to stocking difficulties - so for that and various other reasons I decided that the sale-priced "seems to be on its way to being a previous model but maybe I'm wrong on that" CF-50 was worth a try. I reasoned that I may change my mind on size or type anyway after using one, so start with the less expensive one and see how I like it.
 
John,
Good point. The difference I see is that for the most part the RV air conditioners last years, running almost full time. (I have never had to replace one). The current two units on our RV run almost full time--and are 7 years old now; so that would be $100 a year…or less than $10 a month. It may well be that all of these things last longer if you use them full time. Sorry if you are having any issues with your boat AC unit. I did have to replace a couple of capacitors after lightning strikes nearby. The problem with the air conditioners, as with any sealed compressor, is if you have to replace the compressor, it will cost almost as much as the original unit. Talking to the tech about my freezer today, he mentioned this mentality: If the estimate is over $125 most people would rather buy a new unit, than repair an older unit--so you are not alone. But I agree warrantees should be longer and more comprehensive!

There are a couple of things that we all should do for the RV AC units--that is clean the inside filter frequently (wash in water and dry), and clean the cooling fins and fan on the roof. Have to pull the cover to do that.


I think that the Dometic (WAECO) Freezer/refrigerator is a good unit mostly because of the Danfoss compressor. The problem is not the compressor, but is a cheap electronic component--which cost initially is in the several dollar range. It should be made more reliable--but apparently is not….If it was Mil Spec, I suspect it would be. I'll guess it was made in China…

Dometic CF 80 at PPL RV supplies in Houston is $749. Here is the link:
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-r ... eezers.htm Adventure RV also has the $749 price. I have also had good service from Adventure.

I have used PPL for many years, and they have had good service and good to deal with.

For items like this, Camping World, Defender, Amazom etc are often going to be more expensive.
 
thataway":3pcdn94a said:
J

I have used PPL for many years, and they have had good service and good to deal with.
Click to expand...

Agreed on that. The CF-50 is the first thing I have ordered from them, and the one I got was defective. (I never even turned it on; the rear wall was bulged in such that you practically had to put your foot on the rim to force the basket in and out.)

PPL immediately sent me a new one, no "challenge" questions asked (they actually empathized with me vs. the annoying-but-all-too-common "Oh we've never had anyone else complain..."). They even sent it out before I sent back the defective one. This worked well as I had thrown away the box (kind of big to store on a C-Dory) and thus was able to send the defective one back in the box the replacement unit came in (with a call tag they e-mailed to me). So thumbs up for PPL (great price and inexpensive shipping as well).
 
Sunbeam, I don't think that the PPL is "closeout", since the CF series is still listed as current.

What is interesting, is that WAECO still seems to exist as a subsection of Dometic in much of the World--but in the US, it is just Dometic. I am not sure that the CFX line is available in the US--it comes in the mid size, but available in Australia, Orient, GB etc--but not sure about the US.

CFX: 35, 40, 50, & 65 Quart sizes.
 
thataway":1e6sydch said:
I am not sure that the CFX line is available in the US--it comes in the mid size, but available in Australia, Orient, GB etc--but not sure about the US.

CFX: 35, 40, 50, & 65 Quart sizes.
Click to expand...

I found them in the US, but only in the smallest and the largest size, and I wanted something around 45-50. Sounds like I may be wrong about the CF being on the way out - I shouldn't have inferred.
 
We bought our ARB 50 quart fridge/freezer from lowrangeoffroad.com, it was $835, free shipping and no tax. We are very happy with it. Looking at the specs on this site, it says average power consumption 0.7 to 2.3 amp hours. This is a little different that what we originally read, which was 1.35 amp hours. But it is still very good any way you slice it. At Powell, we were definitely at the high end - but then, temps were very high there, and we had it set at 15 degrees. It kept everything in it frozen solid. Our solar panels were close to keeping up during the daytime but not quite. I think we ran our Honda 2000 generator only once over 14 days, although we also charged by running the outboard when we ran to Dangling Rope for ice for the Pelican cooler. Like Bob says, the ice at Powell is low quality, two blocks lasted about four to five days in the Pelican (not bad actually). We do see a Honda 1000 in our future, smaller and lighter than the 2000, to bridge any gap between solar panel production and power consumption!
 
Follow up: The tech came out this AM. He had talked to Dometic, whose response was that they realized that there can be a problem with the thermistor, so they have a "kit", which bypasses the original (unplug from the circuit board, which is easy to get to). That kit involves drilling several holes in the unit's interiior case, and glueing the replacement thermistor on the inside of the wall.

I presented all of my data (calibrated the unit from 50 to 0 degrees. Generally in the ref temps, the temp in the unit is about 5 degrees lower than the LED reads. (Also the LED often reads a couple degrees lower than the "set" temperature.). For example the unit is set at 35, LED reads 33, and the temp in the alcohol is 28 degrees. The water is beginning to freeze, and reads 32 (after overnight). The unit has the compressor running about 25% of the time in these ranges, so power draw is fine.
In the freezer range, we do find it running almost 100% of the time when set at 5, but the temp in the alcohol goes down to minus 8, about the same as the IR thermometer. At 10, the freezer is about 5 by measurement by the IR or in the alcohol. At 16 the freezer is about 10 etc.

Decision, is to use the unit, monitor the temp with food in it. We have ordered the kit, and if it is way off or the current thermistor fails, we have the kit to add in. We are not going to take the case apart.

Interesting that the tech related that apparently the same folks who made the unit for WAECO still make the unit. The only user serviceable parts are two circuit boards and the LED/control unit--and the Thermistor kit. Other than that--buy a new unit. It is interesting that in our discussion, the techs feeling is that these are really made to run at DC voltages of 13.5 plus or minus 5 volts--what your car will run. He felt that the lower voltage of just the battery alone tends to be harder on the compressor, and circuits. So that would be a vote for solar supplement to keep battery voltage up during the daytime.
 
I have appreciated this thread. But confess to being a little dismayed at how much work it can be to do something supposedly as simple as plugging in an expensive refrigerator.

I designed and built a large house as a retirement project. I like everything to work right, and am willing to think, work, and spend to make it so. I am hoping not to have to do so much on my first boat. Some but not a lot! This is one of the reasons I do not want to trailer, at least for the first couple years.
 
RobLL":2v4f814f said:
I have appreciated this thread. But confess to being a little dismayed at how much work it can be to do something supposedly as simple as plugging in an expensive refrigerator.
Click to expand...

There is an excellent book for prepping a sailboat for cruising by an experienced fellow named Bill Seifert. Slightly different than small powerboating, but there are many commonalities, as they are both boats. He has a "funny" chapter called something like "The $893 bread machine." Long story short, client of his wanted a ~$50 bread machine on his boat. It ended up costing the $8xx amount after all the upgrades necessary to the onboard systems to make it work (prices circa 1990's).

Generally, "complications" and especially appliances/electronics are more expensive and less reliable on a boat (than a land-based building). Just the way it is between low volume (as compared to household systems), "you are your own power station," the atmospheric conditions on a boat (which is hard on things), etc.

So, there is something to be said for keeping things simple. Less there, less to go wrong, take up space, have to be moved around, add weight, etc. I'm like you in that broken things drive me nuts. Of course those "complications" can also bring comfort, satisfaction, information, etc. But it's at least good to give them a wary eye before welcoming them aboard, in my opinion.

To bring it back somewhat on topic, and all of the above said, I did buy one of the CF-50's and am going to give it a whirl. Of course this does not stand alone, but brings with it charging and system upgrades :lol But some of them are things I wanted to do anyway.

Since the thread was "resolved," I hope it was not bothersome that I responded to this tangent.
 
It helps if you understand some basic technology. This can come from experience, reading or having a mentor. A lot of information on this site. Note that the Freezer/Ref did not stop working. We had well frozen food, and the luxury of having excellent pre cooked main entrees for a month. This is longer than most C Dory cruises.

The average C Dory trip is a weekend or a week--and an ice chest works great for that. In the PNW ice lasts closer to a week--in Alaska even longer.
Pat Anderson noted that his ARB freezer used a lot less battery power in the PNW, because of the cooler ambient temperature.

We made one 4 year voyage of 41,000 miles, Calif to Europe and back. A few things failed along the way, but we always got the system repaired, or had a work around. Probably out biggest problem was a "cheap" diesel generator. The armature had 3 rewinds, we had a leaking injector pump--and then a technician, damaged the generator when he put in the wrong size O rings, and it ran away, requiring a rebuild of the diesel engine. But the boat had very complex systems, including water maker, washer, dryer, state of the art electronics (for the 1983 era), etc. When we came home everything was working perfectly. The other 4 year trip involved a slightly smaller boat, and was Calif to AK--3 more trips to AK, then down the coast, a 3rd Panama Canal transit, and to Florida. Fewer problems on that boat--but it had a better generator. Again, all systems working well along the way.

Boats are made to be used--not just to be worked on and sat on watching the world go by in a parking lot. Worrying what might happen can be counter productive. Go ahead, make the trip, and fix what breaks along the way--if it breaks. KISS works very well. Don't take it unless you can do without.
 
Dr. Bob,

We have the same freezer that you and Marie have, and (so far...) it has given excellent service.

If I have a thermistor problem at some point in the future, do you have a part number/price/source for the Waeco/Dometic "kit" that you mentioned?

Best,
C&M
 
Hi Casey,
I should have the kit next monday, and will post the number, cost etc then. I think it would be a good spare to have aboard. The tech was impressed that the compressed will as quiet and cooling as well as it was.

Although we have the "jacket", and a piece of foam / foil on the top, in the future, we will make a collapsible cover of more foam and Duct tape, which should give some significant increase in insulation. I'll see if we can fit this inside of the "jacket"--also probably double the top insulation, and maybe even make a gasket between that and additional side insulation.

We will use both the IR thermometer and a digital probe type of thermometer to monitor temperatures in the box. Even after this issue, I still think that the WAECO/Dometic product is worth owning. Is ARB better--there are some things which might make one think so. But I am going to run this one until it dies.
 
I was awoken this AM by the supervisor of Warrantee for refrigeration at Dometic. We had a long conversation, and she was very patient as I explained the problem, and what we have done in testing.

First thing she says, is that there is NO Thermistor replacement kit. She is aware of very few, if any thermistor problems in this specific unit--although some of the larger CF80 and CF 110 units did have two thermisors installed. The final summary was that Dometic was sending me a new CF 50 from Orlando, the nearest warehouse. I did not have to return the old unit (which they do consider not repairable, except for circuit board). I just send the sticker off the unit to her. Her action was based on the fact that the unit was only a couple of months out of warrantee. (Not sure what it would have been if a year out of warrantee).

It took over a week, but eventually my plea to talk to a supervisor in the tech department went thru and was acted upon.

This shows that Dometic, although slow on the front end--came thru in the long run.
 
Bob, It's great that you are getting a new freezer. I have started running my new Dometic CF-50 and monitoring a Kill-a-Watt (since I purchased it before the Powell trip you mentioned). I not sure that I will perform the in-depth analysis you did, but I would like to gain from your and Pat's combined experience.

For a variety of reasons I have chose to install solar panels, how many watts would you recommend for Powell trips? Pat, I believe has two 100 watt panels and still needed a little help from the generator.

-Scott
 
Scott,
Great to hear from you. I believe that Pat has only 100 watts, also Pat's panels are slanted to the side so he can put the kayaks on the rack above them. You are correct that he only ran the generator once in two weeks, also he did have the output of the 150 hp engine--about 40 amps for a couple of hours on ice runs and between anchorages.
Daydream_at_gathering.sized.jpg

I believe C Pelican only had 60 watts, which could be turned in 2 axis, and his was not quite enough, but close. He was also using a power back which measured the amount of input and usage.
C_Puffin_and_Grace_Full.sized.jpg
The conclusion was that at Powell you probably need more than 100 watts, and I believe that 200 watts should be adequate (of course you do not get full sunlight every day)--also as you know--sometimes it is desirable to have shade. In Iceberg Canyon we had only slightly over 3 hours a day of sunlight.

I have 200 watt solar on my RV, and it is enough to run a 22 cu foot Sansumg household refrigerator, if it is in good full sunshine during the day.

I am considering adding some portable solar panel, just to keep the voltage up during the day when it is hot. But that will depend on the experiments I do in the next few weeks with the 12 volt supply.
 
Patty here. Just on correction, EACH of our solar panels is 100 watts. The ARB worked harder on Lake Powell than it has to in the PNW and we still only used the generator one time in 2 weeks, as well as the 2 runs to Dangling Rope. Still very happy with both the solar panels and the ARB.
 
Back
Top