Fishing Boat Carrying NFL Players Reported Missing in Florid
- Thread starter flrockytop
- Start date
Alyssa Jean
New member
It is very sad when these events happen. Most of the time they are very preventable. But when you look at the numbers it is no surprise. 21 ft boat. 50 miles out in the ocean. 4 adults each weighing in the neighborhood of 240 lbs. 20 kt winds and 7 ft seas. And of course, manly men don't usually wear life jackets.
Anna Leigh":1mz5ppga said:
I agree, a very tragic event. One thing that I always have to take into consideration is whether the life jackets that I have on board are actually large enough for my guests so the PFD's can be zipped up properly. So far, I've not had any guests on board that are unable to fit properly in one of my life jackets. All guests are assigned a life jacket when on board and obviously they must try them on in order to ensure that they fit properly.
These four gentlemen football players are all big guys and I know that there are not enough PFD's on "Sea Shift" that would fit them.
(Just a thought to ponder when inviting guests for a day out on your boat).
Captains Cat
New member
They found one of them, neither player though, clinging to the top of a boat. Others not found yet. Apparently they were anchored when the boat rolled. Lifejackets???? :shock:
Charlie
Charlie
starcrafttom
Active member
Report I heard just now said that the saved guy reported that they all had life jackets and were all together until sometime in the night. Then they got seperated.
[/code][/quote]
CNN.com reports that the boat was anchored during a storm in about 30-50 feet of water some 50 miles offshore. I don't know the area but it looks like a relatively shallow shelf that drops off about 75-100 miles offshore. Is it possible they were swamped by a rolling swell that the boat was unable to handle due to the ground tackle? If the boat was swamped it would likely roll over.
Wind in unprotected shallow water with that kind of fetch seems like it would cause some pretty steep chop. Being anchored seems like a very bad idea.
Hopefully these guys will be found -- if anyone can survive this it's 3 pro ball players. My 160 lb frame wouldn't last 20 minutes...
Wind in unprotected shallow water with that kind of fetch seems like it would cause some pretty steep chop. Being anchored seems like a very bad idea.
Hopefully these guys will be found -- if anyone can survive this it's 3 pro ball players. My 160 lb frame wouldn't last 20 minutes...
I don't know the fishing tactics in the gulf, but I find it strange someone would have an anchor out on purpose. The other thing not yet noted, was the absence of any backup propulsion (ie kicker motor). To be 50 miles out, they should have some backup power. I would also like to know if it was one of those open bow jobs. The coming week should tell alot.
starcrafttom
Active member
I have not fished this area yet but I have seen it on tv while sleeping at a holiday inn. Yes it is common to anchor on off shore reefs and bars. only way to stay on top of the bottom fish. They even do it here for halibut sometimes. The Canadians anchor on coyote bank all the time. When you get the anchor line wrapped around the motor and turn ass in to the wind you can get sunk quickly. Don't know if that is what happen but the survivor should know.
I fish similar waters as frequently as I can . Lots of folks anchor over reefs as Tom points out . The seas in the Gulf of Mexico can come up fast . In the summer, rather sudden storms are common , The winter fronts are much more predictable . I had a demo on a CD 19 in the morning Saturday . When we reached the pass at maybe 8;30 A.M. there were steep standing waves of 4 feet or so and they were no more than 4 feet apart . The C Dory handled it admirably with a little use of the windshield wipers, but a center console would have "washed through or poked the bow through the waves " a number of times just getting out of the pass . I knew what the weather was going to be ,when it blows from the north or northwest , its pretty bad and gets worse the further offshore you go . The other question other than weather judgment that comes to mind is what the heck were they going 50 miles to catch on a snotty day ? The 2 red grouper that the feds allow? Red snapper is closed , Gag grouper is closed , its still too cold for dolphin,tuna, or wahoo or billfish [and they werent far enough anyway]maybe they know something I dont ? Maybe not .
I hope they all survive and wish the best for them and their families . Go Coast Guard !
Marc
I hope they all survive and wish the best for them and their families . Go Coast Guard !
Marc
Growing up on the West Coast of FL, this story hits very close to the heart. Reading some of the details, I was thinking that being at anchor in 8' swells was unsafe, should they have had a Sea anchor rather than anchoring to bottom? I guess at times like this boaters can learn from accidents, as long as the facts are known.
I would also like to give a great deal of RESPECT to the Coast Guard!!
We have been caught out on the Gulf a few times in quick moving storms and reading this really makes me stop and think about the safety of my family and boat. I will do all I can to think about safety as much as possible when we go boating.
I would also like to give a great deal of RESPECT to the Coast Guard!!
We have been caught out on the Gulf a few times in quick moving storms and reading this really makes me stop and think about the safety of my family and boat. I will do all I can to think about safety as much as possible when we go boating.
The boat's owner was experienced and had fished that area a number of times in the past, including the previous weekend. The boat was 38 miles out when found.
This topic has been very active in a number of other forums, especially those involved with Florida fishing. The weather when they left was good--seas calm--and one person who posted bought bait just after they did and watched them go out. The seas began to come up about 4 to 5 hours later and gradually built to up to over 10 feet. The front came in an hour earlier than expected. Anchoring on a reef in that area is not unusual. But when the boat is anchored, the bow will not rise to the seas, as well as when it is underway. It is not clear if there were engine problems, or if they remained anchored because of the wind and seas--and felt that they could "ride it out". There are two types of Everglade 21"s --I am sure that Mac can tell us much more about these--but they had the one with larger freeboard and fuel tank.
Hyrothermia already played a major role here. The water temperatures are in the 62 to 64 degree range at that time. The water conducts heat 32 times faster than air. Generally in 60 to 70 degree water you have 2 to 7 hours before exhaustion, and unconscious status, and 2 to 40 hours of survival. However in this case all four got on the bottom of the boat. But there did not seem to be any lines to hold them completely out of the water, so one suspects that they were peroidically in the water or at least hit with spray and waves. The longer survival of the one individual may have to do with his jacket. We don't know about the other three. But if they were to keep out of the water, chances of survival would have been much better.
Yes, we would think that a kicker would have been a good idea--but in these seas, it may have been hard or impossible to run. (Cavitation, weight aft, difficuty steering). They may have been out of radio range and certainly out of cell phone range (if the cell phones were functioning).
In the spirit of education, rather than criticism--what could have been done differently. Obvious is the distance off shore, the size of boat, and the weather (coming back in sooner). A second engine or kicker. A sea anchor may have been better--or a float on the anchor rode, so that the load is parallel with the waves vs pulling down with the waves, may have helped. Float coats with insulation (it can get mighty cold even in Florida this time of the year).
A better float plan and earlier notification of the Coast Guard would have helped. (But the family knew the general area and when they were expected back).
Marie and I have been carrying Personal locator beacons (EPIRB 406, with GPS)--activation of one of these would have both brought fast help and to the correct location. A hand held VHF radio would have helped in the final localization. A strobe light may have also helped with the search, especially after dark. We believe that all three of these need to be carried on the person of each person--maybe more reasonable is just the skipper. But either way--$500 for the PLB, $100 for the water proof handheld VHF radio and $30 for the Strobe would have saved lives and affected prompt rescue.
This topic has been very active in a number of other forums, especially those involved with Florida fishing. The weather when they left was good--seas calm--and one person who posted bought bait just after they did and watched them go out. The seas began to come up about 4 to 5 hours later and gradually built to up to over 10 feet. The front came in an hour earlier than expected. Anchoring on a reef in that area is not unusual. But when the boat is anchored, the bow will not rise to the seas, as well as when it is underway. It is not clear if there were engine problems, or if they remained anchored because of the wind and seas--and felt that they could "ride it out". There are two types of Everglade 21"s --I am sure that Mac can tell us much more about these--but they had the one with larger freeboard and fuel tank.
Hyrothermia already played a major role here. The water temperatures are in the 62 to 64 degree range at that time. The water conducts heat 32 times faster than air. Generally in 60 to 70 degree water you have 2 to 7 hours before exhaustion, and unconscious status, and 2 to 40 hours of survival. However in this case all four got on the bottom of the boat. But there did not seem to be any lines to hold them completely out of the water, so one suspects that they were peroidically in the water or at least hit with spray and waves. The longer survival of the one individual may have to do with his jacket. We don't know about the other three. But if they were to keep out of the water, chances of survival would have been much better.
Yes, we would think that a kicker would have been a good idea--but in these seas, it may have been hard or impossible to run. (Cavitation, weight aft, difficuty steering). They may have been out of radio range and certainly out of cell phone range (if the cell phones were functioning).
In the spirit of education, rather than criticism--what could have been done differently. Obvious is the distance off shore, the size of boat, and the weather (coming back in sooner). A second engine or kicker. A sea anchor may have been better--or a float on the anchor rode, so that the load is parallel with the waves vs pulling down with the waves, may have helped. Float coats with insulation (it can get mighty cold even in Florida this time of the year).
A better float plan and earlier notification of the Coast Guard would have helped. (But the family knew the general area and when they were expected back).
Marie and I have been carrying Personal locator beacons (EPIRB 406, with GPS)--activation of one of these would have both brought fast help and to the correct location. A hand held VHF radio would have helped in the final localization. A strobe light may have also helped with the search, especially after dark. We believe that all three of these need to be carried on the person of each person--maybe more reasonable is just the skipper. But either way--$500 for the PLB, $100 for the water proof handheld VHF radio and $30 for the Strobe would have saved lives and affected prompt rescue.
Don and Brenda
New member
Hey Marc The big question, did you sell the CD 19 after a rough demo ride like that?
Ashley Lynn
New member
God bless the missing and their families.
Makes the decision to spend the $500 for an epirb a little easier.
Anyone have one of these?
AquaFix™ 406 406 MHz GPS I Personal EPIRB GPS Interface
Makes the decision to spend the $500 for an epirb a little easier.
Anyone have one of these?
AquaFix™ 406 406 MHz GPS I Personal EPIRB GPS Interface
Yes we did .As I said it was about 4 feet at the pass and we were going very slowly and deliberately . Thank you for asking !
Bob it was the deep vee Everglades 21 . It has a large livewell and probably in true Dougherty fashion had a huge motor on the back, probably too big to also allow a kicker . Another case where "unsinkable" doesn't equal safe . We used to sell that boat and it would not be my first choice to be in really bad conditions on .
Marc
Bob it was the deep vee Everglades 21 . It has a large livewell and probably in true Dougherty fashion had a huge motor on the back, probably too big to also allow a kicker . Another case where "unsinkable" doesn't equal safe . We used to sell that boat and it would not be my first choice to be in really bad conditions on .
Marc
flrockytop
New member
thataway":3r0ydzo1 said:
Bob, I've got my grandson studying for the Florida Boaters course. In that course they say that "cold water conducts heat 75 times faster than air" In reading one of the Coast Guards reports on this incident they say 100 times faster. So what is the real answer? Since you said 32 my money would be on that. In typing this I think I figured out that it really all depends on how cold the cold water really is. Is there a chart/graph? And of course the persons physical fitness plays a big part. I wouldn't last 15 min in 65deg water. When I scuba dove there were only two days a year that I didn't think it was too cold. The last two days in August
Roger
starcrafttom
Active member
Bill you are assuming they used a lot of scope. The news said they knew the area. Maybe it was a rouge wave on the front of that was moving Thur. I don't know why the survivor has not made a statement on what happen but I'm sure we will hear in the near future.