FIRST BOAT - C-Dory 16 (Southern California)

Z

zoomie97

New member
Hello everyone. New to the forum, and new to boating. We recently moved to Ventura CA 2 blocks from the harbor, and my 3 boys have all gotten into fishing. They want dad to get a boat, so I thought I would baby step into boat ownership. Would this boat be suitable for So-Cal waters, I would like to use it for fishing and crabbing. Going out to the islands would also be nice (Anacapa island - 18 miles away). There is one for sale on craigslist, but looks pretty rough for $12k. Not sure what these boats sell for. I am also assuming that a pre-purchase inspection is a wise spend of money for any boat. Thoughts? Any suggestions on inspectors in the So-Cal area?

Thank you,

Zoomie97
 
Zoomie,

Welcome to C-BRATS. You have come to the right place to learn about C-Dorys. Almost everything you could want to know about C-Dorys is here. AND you get the benefit of the brain trust, the great folks and the camaraderie.

Addressing your question. Don't know much about you or your boat choices. I do know some about the 16's and some of the other C-Dorys. If your 3 boys are young and growing it wont take long and the 16 is going to be a little crowded. But, it might be a great place to start, and if the one you are looking at is a bit rough around the edges, some TLC and it may be worth more than you bought it for by the time you need to look upward in size. Then, a 22 will fit you til the boys are married and have kids of their own to bring along.

The 16 is sturdy, and fairly seaworthy, but you have to be aware of it's limitations, like we all do with our own boats. Take a basic boating course, and take the boys with you for that, it will give you a good foundation. Coast Guard Auxiliary or Power Squadron both offer good info, and then you also will get to have some interaction with others in your area. That's a great way to learn some local knowledge of good areas and practices.

Best in your search and learning,

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Ventura is a great place , especially if you're into boating. You have nearby harbours such as Oxnard or Santa Barbara to visit. And the islands off Ventura are spectacular. I remember the first time I went over, a long time ago. We were the smallest boat but we were there. I had 4 kids but I only took a couple at a time. It was wonderful. We still visit Ventura with Journey On

You must realize that once you leave the harbour, you are in the Pacific Ocean and specifically in the Santa Barbara Channel. It can be smooth as glass (but often isn't) in the morn but the afternoon wind really builds and provides a rough ride. I fervently believe a 22' boat is the smallest one to try. That's the size I started with and it was really small on a big ocean.

Anacapa Isle is 16 nmi from Ventura but has no overnight anchorages, its a great trip. Santa Rosa Isle is the one with a variety of anchorages and the nearest is 19 nmi. It's further to the Painted Cave and the south side. For 4 people overnighting, a 22' boat is also a minimum. Note there will be a porta-potte used, I used one for 10 years, one always wants a little privacy. And remember, to land on the islands, you need an inflatable boat; there's no putting the bow ashore in the sand, there are waves there. Get a cheap inflatable, say a Sevelyor and learn. You can row, but I remember when we got a small outboard.

I strongly recommend a 22 of some sort. I'm sure you can buy a 16 and tell me it's working great, but I wouldn't believe it.

Since going to the islands is serious business, try taking a Coast Guard course. They're free and one learns a lot. Get a chartbook from a local store and plot a course. GPS and VHF are great. Of course I didn't do any of this until after the first trip but I was a lot younger.

Oh, and now there's a lot of SoCal water that's off limits to fishing. Better learn where those restrictions apply.

Boris
 
Friends who see photos of my 16 usually ask if it is an 18 or 19 footer, so they look bigger in photos. If you've not yet seen a 16 in person yet, when you do you'll see that it is really just a small skiff that happens to have a cute cabin for protection from elements and storage of gear. With my 16 I've always had to watch the weather very closely and never get my hopes up for being able to go out on any given day. If forecast is for 2' or more waves I just don't even bother because that can quickly turn into 3' or more, and that's in the protected waters of Puget Sound. I'd imagine the ocean would be even more limiting of when you can safely go out. And with you and three boys plus fishing gear, you might be quickly exceeding the limitations of the 16 even in calm waters. It is a pretty small boat, best suited for one or two people. Since you are in a warm climate, a 16' inflatable RIB would probably be a better idea for offshore use, if you are confined to this boat size or budget.

-Mike
 
I live in Camarillo and would be happy to sit down you and tell you all about the boats...I have a 22' that I keep at my home in Camarillo... I really do not think you want a 16' boat in our water...it gets really rough out there....
Give me a call and we can get together.

Joel Rapose
Camarillo Ca.
SEA3PO
 
Welcome aboard! Take Joel up on his offer--he is very knowledgable about the C Dory and local waters!

Boris said:
Santa Rosa Isle is the one with a variety of anchorages and the nearest is 19 nmi. It's further to the Painted Cave
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I think you mean Santa Cruz Island. Santa Rosa is further North and between Santa Cruz and San Miguel. Santa Rosa only has several good anchorages, and It can get nightly rough up there!

My advice is that the 19 or 22 is far better for what you are considering. Although C Pup goes to Catalina, it s a different type of water--and perhaps a bit more predictable.

If you want to stay near shore--the 16 may be OK--but once the wind kicks up--that 16 is going to be very small--and for the boys not comfortable....Just my opinion.

(Although I live in Florida, I spent over 50 years boating S. Calif waters).
 
Absolutely right,Bob. Santa Cruz (Saint Cross?) is the next island over. And I checked it on a chart to get the mileage.

There's Anacapa Isle, then Santa Cruz, next is Santa Rosa and finally San Miguel. Did I get that right?

Just a comment. As you're coming down the coast, the waters get calmer as one passes Pt. Conception and you're in the Santa Barbara Channel than really calm after Pt. Magu when you're in the San Pedro Channel. Both Channels have afternoon winds though. That picture of C-Pup looks to be off Palos Verde which can be calm.

Boris
 
Boris,
I agree mostly on the winds. But I suspect the photo of C Pup is on the North Side of Catalina Island out near Ship Rock Note the boats anchored in the coves--(Most likely Cherry and 4th of July coves).

You got the afternoon winds right--remember "Hurricane Gulch"!
 
Thank you everyone for the great responses. After looking into the 16. I think you are all correct to small. I did happen to pop into a 22' C-Dory over the weekend, and even that is tight. But it might be exactly what I need for my first boat. We just moved to Ventura, and live in the keys. Unfortunately our home is not on the waterway, but we are very close. So I would like a boat that we can fish and crab out of, but one that we can still trailer home so I don't have to pay slip fee's. The launch ramp is less than a 1/2 mile away. I am open to any suggestions you might have, but he 22' C-Dory seems like a great starting platform. Thanks again for the advice.
 
There is a huge difference in the room and seaworthiness of the 22 and 16 (although perhaps some 16 owners might dispute that)...I feel that you should be fine in the 22--at least for day trips. A real advantage for you, is the close ramp and easy trailerability--and hopefully one of your neighbors may have a "spare" slip?
 
I own the boat C-Pup that was in an earlier photo. For day cruising near port, it is comfortable as a two person boat. For overnight or any activity with gear in the boat, like an ice chest, fishing tackle or hoop nets, it is really just a one man boat. I enjoy it as my man cave on the ocean. I spent far more on the electronics and safety equipment on my boat than the boat itself cost new.

If you're taking your family to sea, especially across the Santa Barbara channel which can quickly become very rough and dangerous, then you need a 22 ft or 25 foot boat. There is no "easing into" boating by the size of the boat. You ease into it by starting with fair weather close to port excursion and taking boating safety and navigation classes. Next year, a new law will require you to pass a boating safety test and be licensed to operate a boat.

The 16 ft CD has a 700 something pound weight limit including motor, gas, people and gear. You really won't be able to pack enough gas along with the weight of passengers to get you to Santa Cruz Island and back. These boats pop up and plane on the water's surface, which gives them great miles per gallon. Below the maximum weight capacity however, there is a tipping point where they won't plane, but instead just plow, burning lots more gas per mile (reducing your range) and reducing your speed to a crawl.

Boating is a challenge, and doing it in a small boat is more of a challenge than in a bigger boat. It is often a pleasure, but always a lot to manage in terms of details (use check lists) and planning your excursions for safety. You need to know the forecast for swell direction and wind direction. In my 16 foot cruiser, I plan my excursions to travel at dawn when the ocean is flat to where I'll fish in Malibu. I choose Malibu because when I return to Marina del Rey the wind and swells are at my back, pushing me right to my destination. This is called traveling "downhill", and the flat bottom C0Dory does this very well. If I fish at Palos Verdes in the morning, I'll leave from Cabrillo boat ramp in San Pedro so I return to port "downhill" in the afternoon. If I tried to return to MdR in the chop and wind of afternoon, it could be slow, dangerous and physically torture to me and to my boat. The 16 ft C-Dory really can't handle up hill travel well. The 22 ft C-Dory handles it much better, The 25 foot Cruiser is an ice breaker and can take the perfect storm, though don't try that if you get one. For the safety of your family, get the biggest boat you can afford. If you want to be a hermit on the sea, then buy a 16 ft C-Dory and wear it like a body suit as I do.

Talk to Joel. He can offer you incredible insight from his vast experience with boats and boating people, and is the sweetest man of goodwill you'll encounter.

If you want to chat with me too, call me in Los Angeles at 323-291-7618

Be well,
Keith Dager
C-Pup16 in Los Angeles
 
Keep in mind about references to Catalina... they sell gas there. There's no gas dock at the Channel Islands.

Whatever boat you get, you need GPS navigation and an AIS marine radio. https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/ ... n-with-AIS AIS is a location and ship identifier broadcast for every commercial boat. I have radar, but it really only picks up big ships. The high speed ferry to Catalina is a real danger in the fog or dark due to its speed and for some reason, my radar only picks it up when it gets too close to me for comfort. AIS radio tells you it's GPS coordinates so you can avoid it even if you don't have radar. I just bought an ICOM AIS marine radio for $400 to replace my perfectly good non AIS marine radio.

Boating requires good common sense. You'll absorb that from this group of old C-Dory owners with lots of experience. Idiots abound in boating causing danger to themselves, their passengers and other boats. I recently returned from Catalina to San Pedro when a fog moved in. I was stunned by the number of small boats anchored to fish just outside of Angles's Gate, the vortex of all traffic in and out of San Pedro. Sure enough, the Catalina Flyer, a high speed catamaran, passed near enough to me that I tell it would be God's grace that it did not run down one of those small fishing boats anchored and focused on their lines, not on the ferry barreling at them through the fog at 30 knots speed.
 
C-Pup in LA, I read this line as am pretty confused. Help please.

"These boats pop up and plane on the water's surface, which gives them great miles per gallon. Below the maximum weight capacity however, there is a tipping point where they won't plane, but instead just plow, burning lots more gas per mile (reducing your range) and reducing your speed to a crawl."
Click to expand...

I agree, the advantages of AIS are plenty. (Your radar should show up almost anything on the water, but plastic boats with a engine that sits down in the water won't make a big spot on your screen. The ICOM M-506 or the Standard Horizon GX2200 both will give AIS output to your chart plotter. If you are boating in a busy commercial area they are worth the investment. In our (Puget Sound / Juan de Fuca) area we have the Victoria Clipper fleet. Big catamarans that run 30+ in the fog, dark, calm or rough conditions. AIS will show where they are, how fast they are going and where and how soon you could meet them.

On my 22 Cruiser, with twin 40 Yami's I plane at about 10 knots. (I'm a bit stern heavy so can't always hold the plane at 9). That speed lets me work my way across the Strait of Juan de Fuca with 2-4 beam seas. Not that I choose to, but some times it happens. I have managed 8 - 10 foot following seas, and 4-6 foot head on, with frequently had the bow and windlass dunked into the oncoming wave. I would consider the 22 plenty safe for where you are boating, assuming you are good at checking the weather and managing the helm. Both of those will come with practice and experience. As mentioned, start early, close and perfect weather, and then slowly broaden your horizons, bit at a time.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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To clarify what Keith mentioned, the new operator's license law begins January 1, 2018 but there are a few minor points.
California's new law regarding vessel operation requires that all power boaters under the age of 20 complete a state-approved course by January 1, 2018. This law will include those up to the age of 25 by January 1, 2019, and by 2025 all boaters will be required to have completed such a course.
 
@ Hardee. Was there a question about my quote? The 16 ft CD beam is less than 7 ft wide. The 22' CD beam is just under 8' wide. There's just less hull length and surface to plane on top of the water. I think that is why the 16' CD is more weight sensitive, making it "sink" from planing mode into displacement mode at a tipping point at or around the brass plate weight limit, which with motor, fuel, gear and people, is easily reached. I usually cruise to Catalina with just me on board and 18 to 22 gallons of fuel and am comfortable going 17~ 18 knots, and up to 21 knots (max speed at 5600 rpm) on really flat seas. Trim tabs and motor tilt help keep the bow down to cut through small waves. Swells aren't that large in the dawn hours, except in the shipping lanes. When cruising in swells, I can slow to 12 knots and stay on plane, losing it around 11 knots.

Handling the 16 ft CD cruiser is like ball room dancing with an enthusiastic woman who's racing a little ahead of her dancing skills. You have to keep hands on the helm wheel at all times when going 17 ~ 21 knots to help her recover when she spins out of control. Ladies, you can say if a dance partner doesn't know where he's navigating, then it's his fault you spin left when he meant right. Which leads me back to the need of a newbie to "get to know his partner" (his boat) and how she might spin.
Anyway, I guess I'm saying the wider the boat, the slower the spin and less chaos when navigating the seas.
 
C-PUP in LA,

Below the maximum weight capacity however, there is a tipping point where they won't plane
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Are you sure that it won't plane at below max weight? Seem like the weight would hinder planing as the weight increases, not decreases. JMHO.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
I believe he means above the max weight. The Max beam of the 22 is 7'8"; the 16 is 6'6" You can plane a shingle with enough engine...may be more under water however. If you put more HP on the 16 you could plane it overweight. But you probably will be hanging more weight than the transom can take--and if the boat is already "squirrley at 18 mph--it will be more so, with the increased HP.

It is a shorter distance from Ventura Harbor to Santa Cruz than from either San Pedro or King Harbor/Marina Del Rey to Twin Harbors, Catalina. So no problem fuel wise--it is the rough weather. I have beat into 22 foot seas trying to get from Santa Cruz to Santa Rosa..Not typical--but where I too new boats to shake them down.
 
My point was that loading a 16 ft CD to its maximum legal weight limit might pass the tipping point where a 50 horsepower outboard can keep it on plane. There are of course degrees of planing before you become a displacement hull. The legal weight limit is set for safety and I suppose, to keep the boat at the surface if swamped. I have wondered how it would perform if I had a 60 or 70 horsepower outboard. There'd be a problem with swells... I don't want my boat to be a bullet shooting through swells, but rather a cork floating over them. At the least, being fully loaded or over loaded reduces my boat's miles per gallon. I seem to get 6 knots per gallon with my 50 hp Yamaha cruising to Catalina at 17 knots speed with a properly loaded boat. Having less weight in the boat of course makes it easier to plane, easier to handle swells, safer to control and better range on fuel. I hope that clears up any confusion my earlier comment caused.
 
C-Pup16 in Los Angeles":7uhlsol4 said:
My point was that loading a 16 ft CD to its maximum legal weight limit might pass the tipping point where a 50 horsepower outboard can keep it on plane. There are of course degrees of planing before you become a displacement hull. The legal weight limit is set for safety and I suppose, to keep the boat at the surface if swamped. I have wondered how it would perform if I had a 60 or 70 horsepower outboard. There'd be a problem with swells... I don't want my boat to be a bullet shooting through swells, but rather a cork floating over them. At the least, being fully loaded or over loaded reduces my boat's miles per gallon. I seem to get 6 knots per gallon with my 50 hp Yamaha cruising to Catalina at 17 knots speed with a properly loaded boat. Having less weight in the boat of course makes it easier to plane, easier to handle swells, safer to control and better range on fuel. I hope that clears up any confusion my earlier comment caused.
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Back in the mid 80s they offered the 16 rated for 70 hp on special order. But they said for calm water waterski use only. So I suspect there may not have been much difference aside from a modified rating plate, perhaps with lower loading capacities. There are some c-brats listed in the directory with up to 70 hp. The weight of a 2 stroke 70 was about the same, maybe less, than what some people mount on the transom, with a 200 lb 50 hp and 100 lb 9.9 kicker.
Here's the link to the 70 hp option:
http://www.c-brats.com//files/brochure_part_1.pdf
 
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