Finally found a candidate, need some help.

T

TStrong

New member
Hey there, Ive been a long time lurker searching for a boat for a while (will be my first boat), finally found something local within my budget... It's definitely a project boat which is fine for me, I worked in a boatyard in my early 20's and no stranger to fiberglass work, I'd love some input on the value of this boat and construction. First off, I can't determine is this is a rare old 18' dory or a newer 19', it appears to be a 19, but the HIN# has been painted over and I can't make out the numbers, and the owner hasn't showed me the title yet. The hull seems solid, no cracks in the gelcoat, however on the deck between the seats somebody cut out a large section of glass and did a poor job re glassing it (see pics) I stepped on it and water seeped up and out from underneath where the poor repair job seperated from original deck glass, it felt very spongy like there's wet floatation foam underneath? the rest of the deck feels very solid, I only noticed some gelcoat cracks where the deck meets the hull. it did just rain quite a bit here in CA but im worried how saturated the bot could be underneath the deck and if the stringers been affected. The boat looks like its been sitting a while, current owner has had it a year and hasn't put it in the water, says its too much boat for him, unknown hours on the 115hp 2005 Yamaha four stroke, owner says it fires up and runs no problem, a sea trial wouldn't be possible with the seller, but he said hell fire up the motor for me. I appreciate any insight you guys might have for me, very grateful for the wealth of knowledge on this forum!
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Looks like a rare 18 ft. C-Dory to me. No stringers in that boat but probably extensive balsa (plywood for that era?) that has been soaked over time. You can find much information with balsa issues in the "Forums" header for cockpit and sole repair that others have done including some photos.
 
After doing some more research, this is a 19' because apparently the 18's didn't have a bulkhead between the cockpit and the v-berth like this one does.
 
What year is the boat supposed to be? The title will have the HIN. That will resolve the issue. Do not attempt to buy a boat without seeing the title. (even a copy will do).

The boat does look as if you are going to have to do some "fixing up" to make it a good boat.
 
I wouldn't buy any boat without a sea trial. Why won't the owner allow it?

The max rated hp for a 22 is 115horsepower. I would be somewhat surprised if it's also the same for a 19.
 
I'll second colbysmith, what was his reason for not wanting to offer a sea trial? That will make me worried that he is hiding something bigger.
 
C-Wolfe":g7lshtdb said:
I'll second colbysmith, what was his reason for not wanting to offer a sea trial? That will make me worried that he is hiding something bigger.
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Offer him a price you are comfortable paying for the boat based on the condition you determine. If he won't do a sea trial, that should be reflected in your offer.

If the seller accepts your offer then you get what you want at a price you are willing to pay. If he doesn't, then move on.
 
The hull undoubtedly has water intrusion. Get a good moisture meter for boats
and prove to yourself just how much water is in the hull. I'd also weigh the boat
on the trailer, subtract the trailer and motor weight (and junk on board) to see
if the weight makes sense; water weighs about 8.3 lbs/gal.

If the owner won't prove the boat floats and the motor runs (tho, it can be shore
tested), I'd walk.

If you are into fixing up old, probably neglected boats, as it seems, there are
plenty out there.

Often, walking feels good.

Aye.
 
Foggy":qpvc3xva said:
The hull undoubtedly has water intrusion. Get a good moisture meter for boats
and prove to yourself just how much water is in the hull. I'd also weigh the boat
on the trailer, subtract the trailer and motor weight (and junk on board) to see
if the weight makes sense; water weighs about 8.3 lbs/gal.

If the owner won't prove the boat floats and the motor runs (tho, it can be shore
tested), I'd walk.

If you are into fixing up old, probably neglected boats, as it seems, there are
plenty out there.

Often, walking feels good.

Aye.
Click to expand...

I appreciate all the feedback from everyone... here are my thoughts on this boat: first and foremost , my boat budget is far below what most C-Dorys sell for and a 16' is too small for. me, the only other 19' for sale in the US right now is $55k, I can get this boat for just under $10k. The seller has claims he's never put it in the water, and its been sitting for at least a year, probably much longer, he claims the motor runs great and is willing to do a proper land test, I've contacted a local marine surveyer and he'll assess the boat for a great price. I have no problem walking away, but it seems like too good of a deal to not do everything I can to make a proper decision, turns out the boat is a 2005, If I can get away with spending less than $5k total to get this boat back into good shape, I still think it could be a great deal, and within my budget.
 
If you get the boat for less than 10 K and you have the expertise to bring it back, I believe you can do it for 5K more. (I do recommend using epoxy resin, even though it is considerable more expensive.). The secondary bond of epoxy is far better then polyester resin. A compromise might be the use of vinyl ester resin. Be sure and use end grain balsa when re-coring, unless you are going to do the entire floor. But even then balsa has better shear strength than foams.

If it is 2005, then it is a C Dory 19. But for a 2005 someone has been doing "surgery" on it--and not in a good way. Be sure that you do not put screws into the new core. If you have to put thru hull or screws,, over drill, undercut, and then fill with thickened epoxy.

Use the surveyor to find the nature of what will need to be rebuilt. Be sure that the surveyor has experience with cored boats. The floor of the boat will read high in moisture, just from water standing in it. To really know, the boat needs to be dried out. In the long run, you will have to do core samples, by drilling holes thru the inner glass layer, and then assessing the core conditions.

Please get an album (contact one of the administrators, (First 3 contacts one member list,.). And document what you do.

One further comment. That trailer is painted. It will not last long if you lauch in salt water. A good washdown with fresh water each time may get you a bit longer.

Looking further at the trailer, I am concerned by the Winch post. It may be OK, but seems to lack bracing--and support. When transporting the boat, be sure and put a good ratchet strap over the cockpit from the trailer frame. Be sure the surge brakes work. The tires should be less than 5 years old if you are going any distance.
 
I would walk away and don't look back. This boat makes my very well used 2007 19 look very good. The C Dorys have a balsa core. It's highly unlikely that the rectangler piece that they replaced is the only bad spot, the rot probably extends under the seat boxes and worse probably under the foreword cabin floor. There is a metal strip that runs down the bow, starting just above the water line to protect it from damage. It is held on by screws. If one or more of these screws were stripped out or not calked right, you could get water into your core from there or many other places.

Also, both 24 gallon gas tanks are missing, no one would remove those unless they had core problems in the stern or floor. The way they have so much gear piled up in the back makes me think they may be trying to hide something. This boat has been trashed, so I wouldn't think the motor, trailer or electronics would not be very well cared for either.

You should be able to get a pretty good 19 or older 22 for $20,000 to $35,000+ or a little more if it has been repowered. If you're out on the water and the weather goes bad, it's your boat and motor that will get you home. Spend more if you have to, your worth it.
 
Anything is fixable but I feel the price is too high. 10 ish grand for a boat that needs lots of repairs is going to cost a good amount of bucks even if you can do it yourself.

The trailer? It looks ok for running in fresh water. The salt will finish it off fast if that is in your plan. And while the tires probably look decent, I'd be checking the dates on them as they probably need replacement just due to the hands of time. Bearing and brakes? They are an unknown as well. Do they brakes even work? Are the bearings beyond repair? None of this stuff is really expensive, but it isn't free. If you have to do brakes, tires, bearing, and an actuator, then the trailer is not even an asset. You could easily be putting a grand or two into the trailer if all of that is questionable, and that is if you're doing it yourself.


And, if the outboard on the back isn't really any good, you're really in a bad spot on this "deal". It has been sitting....and this by the way is when you really actually do need to fog an outboard - a subject beat to death in another thread. Was it stored properly? I ask because not running them leads to dried up seals and oil leaks, pitting on bearing surfaces, rust/pitting on bore walls and valve surfaces causing oil consumption, and then there is the fuel system....Running on muffs shows it runs, but that is about it. A leak down test or compression test gives more insight to the condition of the internals. A sea trial really tells a story...If it runs out well, has good oil pressure, provides good voltage, doesn't overheat, and doesn't knock and blow a bunch of blue smoke everywhere it probably isn't a bad motor. At least probably. But even then it is old and not worth that much. I'd feel more comfortable buying an engine with 3000 hours on it that runs well and has been kept up than I would with this one.

So is it worth it? It's not to me - lots of risk and unknowns to take on. And many of them potentially very expensive - a gamble really if you have to go in blind. I do not think there is a lot of value in this boat unless many of the above unknowns, become more certain. Then maybe if you're up for it, but it's going to take a lot of money and work. Somebody else said wait and get a better boat....not a bad idea in my opinion as you might end up money ahead in the end.
 
davidj:
the rot probably extends under the seat boxes and worse probably under the foreword cabin floor. There is a metal strip that runs down the bow, starting just above the water line to protect it from damage. It is held on by screws. If one or more of these screws were stripped out or not calked right, you could get water into your core from there or many other places.
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The core stops at the bulkhead of the console. There is no core from the end of cabin floor forward, where the porti potty stays and under the bow area. Thus there is no chance of a screw from the brass strip causing core damage. The strip can be easily removed, and all of the holes filled with epoxy, and then new pilot holes drilled, The strip can be bedded with 5200 and this will be good for the life of the boat.

I see this boat a little differently--you are getting a reasonably good hull, whch needs cosmetics, and some LTL. You may even have to replace a good bit of the floor (but I doubt the entire floor--it depends on where the boat has been kept, and freeze thaw cycles. Even replacing the entire floor and a new engine you will be ahead of buying another used 19, if you can find one. A new 90 can be found for sub $10,000.

The engine can have compression and leak down tests. You should be able to see it run on muffs. You should be able to check the thermostat for corrosion. These 115 Yamahas are generally pretty good engines. (I have owned two of them) Even if you had to put in a new engine, you would be way ahead -- but only if the buyer can do 90% of the work.

Right now the days of sub 30,000 good C Dorys seems to have disappeared. We see used 22's with not a lot of extras selling in the high 40's to even 50K. It may change if we get into a recession. However no matter what the cost of new boats is going to be way up. The materials are dependent on fossil fuel for resins, and transportation. Wages are not going down. If I were young, in good health and wanted a 19, I would jump on this boat., for less than 10K. No question it will need some work--and that is why it is cheap. Look at those boats which have been very badly damaged, and they were brought back, and sold for a good price.
 
I really appreciate everyones input on here! Ive been going back and forth really hard on this, I had a feeling some would say walk away and don't look back, but also that it has the potential to be a great deal if the rot isn't terrible and the motors good. However there's been a big turn of events with this boat... I think its a stolen boat!!! I thought it was strange that the HIN was painted over and couldn't be read, and that it said "alaskan" on the side of the hull, but here's what I discovered: there's a coast guard plaque on the cab bulkhead, it says the boat model is a Sierra Cuddy I/o, made in OR by Bramco (aka Seaswirl) somebody went through great lengths to paint the exterior of the cabin with a "Sierra" decal. I finally got the owner to send me the pink slip, sure enough its registered as a 1987 Seaswirl Sierra. I don't think this was done cause the boat was in a storm and declared a total loss, pretty certain its a stolen boat, very sad, looks like this boat was loved until a certain point in its life.
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TStrong,
Good on you for doing the homework and weeding out a boat that you have clear evidence of it, being a fraud. When you started posting, one thing that was unusual, was the fuel tank. Based on the year that your were told, it would not have had a fiberglass molding that contained plastic tank/s. Also, there would have been two permeant aluminum tanks. Lastly something that I have seen, while in the USCG, was aside for the HIN not being legible, the builder capacity plate had another hole, to the right of the existing rivet. These and other things that you posted, are usually related to a boat that is clearly hiding it's history...
 
Very sad story here so far. Maybe wrong title shown to you but my guess is that the boat is stolen. If stolen, I would think that the owner would love to have his or her boat back. Consider calling your local Sheriff's Office to see what their opinion is on the matter. It would be nice to see that boat returned to its legal owner if it was stolen.
 
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