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February Nor'Westing Magazine
- Thread starter Pat Anderson
- Start date
Pat Anderson
New member
Thanks, Greg. I am not exactly "a writer for Nor'Westing"! I think I had this one article in me, not sure if there are any more...I just came back from the Seattle Boat Show so depressed by what I saw there (and didn't see there), and this little article just tumbled out, it sort of wrote itself since I had already developed most of the themes (as you will note, along with Jim Bathurst) over the last couple of years.
Aurelia":3j237pga said:I got a complimentary copy on Sunday at the Blake island dock from a Nordic Tug owner. He saw us pull in and walked over to compliment us on our boat and said he had an article for me to read. He was familiar with the Brats and with Pat and is a writer for Norwesting as well. Can't remember the name.
But..... good article Pat, and hey sometimes a C-dory can get you a free magazine.
Greg
Pat Anderson
New member
And thanks to all for the kind words!
As usual I have mixed thoughts having read the story. Here's a few:
I really appreciated the history in a nutshell. Very well told. The bias toward the original business model was apparent as coming from love of the boats and the relationships in the past. Understandable.
In the medium term there are very few examples of a static business, in the long term probably none. Those that do survive for a while are usually family based (think restaurant or similar). A business must grow or shrink (and finally die). I recall studying the strategy of a very successful family brewery in Germany. Faced with a declining demand for beer (can you imagine :shock: ) the business made the decision to focus locally, supplying restaurants and outlets to reduce distribution costs etc.. A nearby brewery took the opposite approach and pushed into the home market of the first. You can imagine the result. Long term the 6 boats per month may have been sustainable with a local market and direct factory sales but eventually demand would have been limited to replacement. There is a finite number of local buyers, even for an iPhone 4. :wink: Taking a 'cottage industry' national or international takes not only an excellent strategic roadmap, well executed, but access to financial resources and good timing (luck).
It sounds as though Fluid actually were real losers. They bought a company at the wrong time for the market and didn't have time to fix a badly executed change in marketing strategy. If the 23 Venture we own that was built by them they produced good quality boats. Time was just not on their side. I was really glad that we Port Boathouse as the dealer who stood behind the product when Fluid was no more (though warranty problems have been minor). Presumably the Fluid guys lost their shirts.
Today we have Triton. They will struggle because the market demand is still very soft. The Ranger tug guys maybe have the better financials to have a better presence at the boat show. Certainly such things have to be financed and that may not be possible right now. If we want Triton to succeed maybe we should ask ourselves how else we can help. Their success may well depend on their ability to market a fine product. We are willing to give out literature, that's great. Would we personally want to offer unsecured loans (with interest payable depending on success) or otherwise invest our own money as shareholders in the company?
I really appreciated the history in a nutshell. Very well told. The bias toward the original business model was apparent as coming from love of the boats and the relationships in the past. Understandable.
In the medium term there are very few examples of a static business, in the long term probably none. Those that do survive for a while are usually family based (think restaurant or similar). A business must grow or shrink (and finally die). I recall studying the strategy of a very successful family brewery in Germany. Faced with a declining demand for beer (can you imagine :shock: ) the business made the decision to focus locally, supplying restaurants and outlets to reduce distribution costs etc.. A nearby brewery took the opposite approach and pushed into the home market of the first. You can imagine the result. Long term the 6 boats per month may have been sustainable with a local market and direct factory sales but eventually demand would have been limited to replacement. There is a finite number of local buyers, even for an iPhone 4. :wink: Taking a 'cottage industry' national or international takes not only an excellent strategic roadmap, well executed, but access to financial resources and good timing (luck).
It sounds as though Fluid actually were real losers. They bought a company at the wrong time for the market and didn't have time to fix a badly executed change in marketing strategy. If the 23 Venture we own that was built by them they produced good quality boats. Time was just not on their side. I was really glad that we Port Boathouse as the dealer who stood behind the product when Fluid was no more (though warranty problems have been minor). Presumably the Fluid guys lost their shirts.
Today we have Triton. They will struggle because the market demand is still very soft. The Ranger tug guys maybe have the better financials to have a better presence at the boat show. Certainly such things have to be financed and that may not be possible right now. If we want Triton to succeed maybe we should ask ourselves how else we can help. Their success may well depend on their ability to market a fine product. We are willing to give out literature, that's great. Would we personally want to offer unsecured loans (with interest payable depending on success) or otherwise invest our own money as shareholders in the company?
Pat Anderson
New member
One thing that people might not have picked up on, but C-Dory's decision to expand from 6 boats to 60 a month was made WAY before the Great Recession, back when Jeff Messmer was still the sales director. I am guessing that it must have been made in 2004. I don't know how close they got to 60, maybe they achieved it, maybe not. I know during our build in the spring of 2005, Daydream was moved to the Monroe factory (where Cutwaters are now manufactured) because the factory and yard in Auburn were full. I don't fault Scot Reynolds for this decision at all, sales fully justified that expansion.
Now, we can only speculate what might have happened to C-Dory when the Great Recession hit had Jeff remained with the company and the business model of direct factory sales and service had not been changed. My own view is that they would have been (like Ranger is now) the only company in the industry bucking the odds and selling boats like crazy.
I read dealer comments here that "there isn't much demand for C-Dory" and "the market is soft." It does not take an MBA to figure out that "there isn't much demand" and "the market is soft" because NOBODY is currently marketing C-Dorys to create demand. No way, no how. Period.
C-Dory used to fill their entire year's production slots at the boat shows. They marketed the heck out of the C-Dory line at the boat shows across the country. C-Dory used to have every boat at the boat shows, fully staged, loaded with options and a "Boat Show Special" price. You sat down, picked your model, color, engines, options, dickered a little, and signed a contract and paid a deposit. People were happy to wait because they were getting exactly the boat they wanted.
Would the Great Recession have K.O.'d C-Dory if they had continued doing what they had done before they abandoned factory direct sales and service, and really, abandoned their customers? You only have to look at Ranger's success, where Jeff essentially merely transferred the prior C-Dory business model to a different line of boats, to see that C-Dory likely could have weathered the Great Recession just fine.
Ranger has most of their production slots filled for the upcoming year. If Ranger did not market the boats and CREATE the demand, if they relied on dealers to create demand, you can bet the dealers would be saying "there isn't much call for Rangers" and "the market is soft." C-Dory was not a victim of the Great Recession nearly so much as a victim of its decision that the factory was not responsible for marketing and creating demand for the product, and above all, for taking care of their customers.
The key is THE CUSTOMER, the business is CUSTOMER SERVICE, the most important element is CUSTOMER SATISFACTION in a build-to-order business. Jeff completely understood that, the others simply never got it. I have copied and pasted in Andrew's post on Tugnuts - there is just a pervasive attitude at Ranger, Andrew even capitalizes "Our Customers" in "we will not forget the ones who make this all a success":
Bob and Nita,
Thanks for sharing this article. It brings a lot of old memories back and I can tell you that all of us are very fortunate for the friends we have made over the years. Lets keep this going for many years to come! The one comment I can make about this, is Ranger Tugs understands the importance of our customers. Everyone in this fast growing family will not forget the ones who make this all a success (Our Customers). Thanks to everyone on the C-brats and Tugnuts who have helped us be successful. Thanks again for sharing this. I hope C-dory can continue the tradition that Jeff had started.
So, yes, it was Scot Reynold's business and his money, and he had every right to ruin the business, but ruin it he did. And I have every right to reflect and comment on why their choices made things go so wrong. I am sorry if anybody sees that as "vilifying" prior owners. And no, I don't expect to have a personal relationship with the manufacturer of my automobile. But automobiles are fungible (fungible: a commodity that is freely interchangeable with another in satisfying an obligation), build-to-order boats simply are not, because it is not about the commodity nearly so much as it is about the customer.
Now, we can only speculate what might have happened to C-Dory when the Great Recession hit had Jeff remained with the company and the business model of direct factory sales and service had not been changed. My own view is that they would have been (like Ranger is now) the only company in the industry bucking the odds and selling boats like crazy.
I read dealer comments here that "there isn't much demand for C-Dory" and "the market is soft." It does not take an MBA to figure out that "there isn't much demand" and "the market is soft" because NOBODY is currently marketing C-Dorys to create demand. No way, no how. Period.
C-Dory used to fill their entire year's production slots at the boat shows. They marketed the heck out of the C-Dory line at the boat shows across the country. C-Dory used to have every boat at the boat shows, fully staged, loaded with options and a "Boat Show Special" price. You sat down, picked your model, color, engines, options, dickered a little, and signed a contract and paid a deposit. People were happy to wait because they were getting exactly the boat they wanted.
Would the Great Recession have K.O.'d C-Dory if they had continued doing what they had done before they abandoned factory direct sales and service, and really, abandoned their customers? You only have to look at Ranger's success, where Jeff essentially merely transferred the prior C-Dory business model to a different line of boats, to see that C-Dory likely could have weathered the Great Recession just fine.
Ranger has most of their production slots filled for the upcoming year. If Ranger did not market the boats and CREATE the demand, if they relied on dealers to create demand, you can bet the dealers would be saying "there isn't much call for Rangers" and "the market is soft." C-Dory was not a victim of the Great Recession nearly so much as a victim of its decision that the factory was not responsible for marketing and creating demand for the product, and above all, for taking care of their customers.
The key is THE CUSTOMER, the business is CUSTOMER SERVICE, the most important element is CUSTOMER SATISFACTION in a build-to-order business. Jeff completely understood that, the others simply never got it. I have copied and pasted in Andrew's post on Tugnuts - there is just a pervasive attitude at Ranger, Andrew even capitalizes "Our Customers" in "we will not forget the ones who make this all a success":
Bob and Nita,
Thanks for sharing this article. It brings a lot of old memories back and I can tell you that all of us are very fortunate for the friends we have made over the years. Lets keep this going for many years to come! The one comment I can make about this, is Ranger Tugs understands the importance of our customers. Everyone in this fast growing family will not forget the ones who make this all a success (Our Customers). Thanks to everyone on the C-brats and Tugnuts who have helped us be successful. Thanks again for sharing this. I hope C-dory can continue the tradition that Jeff had started.
So, yes, it was Scot Reynold's business and his money, and he had every right to ruin the business, but ruin it he did. And I have every right to reflect and comment on why their choices made things go so wrong. I am sorry if anybody sees that as "vilifying" prior owners. And no, I don't expect to have a personal relationship with the manufacturer of my automobile. But automobiles are fungible (fungible: a commodity that is freely interchangeable with another in satisfying an obligation), build-to-order boats simply are not, because it is not about the commodity nearly so much as it is about the customer.
journey on
New member
chimoii has some interesting thoughts. We can only hope that Triton makes it through these tough times and has a chance to regroup.
As to dealers, we do need them. And Triton needs them. Who will represent C-dory in Florida except Werfings? Do you want to write off the Florida market? Who will back the boats they sell nationwide? There is a C-dory contingent on the East Coast and Triton needs dealer support there. I know nothing about Mobile East Marine, but they're there. Even in Washington, dealers do a lot of work to support the brand. How about Matt Gurnsey at Kitsap Marine who's always on this forum; would'nt you be happy to buy a boat from someone who's that knowledgeable?
What Triton needs are good dealers, of which I feel Werfings is an example, and I'll probably never go there. There are others such as Kitsap, and they need the C-Dory community support not a knock.
I bought my boat from Marbin Marine (the retail arm of the C-dory factory) because the SoCal dealer was a jerk (and I cleaned that up.) He didn't want to sell C-Dorys so I went to the Seattle Boat Show and that wasn't free. And the warranty work was done in Washington. That was 2400 miles (RT) so we made it our summer vacation. That took determination, and Judy had it.
Now Catalina in Ventura has the dealership. Remember that they sell boats for a cool 1/2 mil$, and stack that up against a C-Dory 22, where people complain because they cost a tenth of that. It'd be a waste of time to go talk detail to them. I had trouble getting them to talk about a 36' sailboat.
Triton needs dealers so they can concentrate on building boats and not have the costs of replicating a dealership. They would have to stock motors, etc. and do the loans, paperwork and all the rest of the true romance that goes along with retail sales.
I sincerely hope C-Dory doesn't remain a local Northwest boat. That's a terrible business plan for such a good boat.
Boris
As to dealers, we do need them. And Triton needs them. Who will represent C-dory in Florida except Werfings? Do you want to write off the Florida market? Who will back the boats they sell nationwide? There is a C-dory contingent on the East Coast and Triton needs dealer support there. I know nothing about Mobile East Marine, but they're there. Even in Washington, dealers do a lot of work to support the brand. How about Matt Gurnsey at Kitsap Marine who's always on this forum; would'nt you be happy to buy a boat from someone who's that knowledgeable?
What Triton needs are good dealers, of which I feel Werfings is an example, and I'll probably never go there. There are others such as Kitsap, and they need the C-Dory community support not a knock.
I bought my boat from Marbin Marine (the retail arm of the C-dory factory) because the SoCal dealer was a jerk (and I cleaned that up.) He didn't want to sell C-Dorys so I went to the Seattle Boat Show and that wasn't free. And the warranty work was done in Washington. That was 2400 miles (RT) so we made it our summer vacation. That took determination, and Judy had it.
Now Catalina in Ventura has the dealership. Remember that they sell boats for a cool 1/2 mil$, and stack that up against a C-Dory 22, where people complain because they cost a tenth of that. It'd be a waste of time to go talk detail to them. I had trouble getting them to talk about a 36' sailboat.
Triton needs dealers so they can concentrate on building boats and not have the costs of replicating a dealership. They would have to stock motors, etc. and do the loans, paperwork and all the rest of the true romance that goes along with retail sales.
I sincerely hope C-Dory doesn't remain a local Northwest boat. That's a terrible business plan for such a good boat.
Boris
Matt Gurnsey
New member
Pat-
You're leaving out the money. Who is going to pay for all of this marketing and promotion? Who is going to pay to build all those boats to display at the show? Who is going to pay for the cost of the space at the show?
You're talking about a comittment of over $200,000 by the factory to do the Seattle Boat Show as you describe. The Triton boys have been in this business long enough to get it. They know the value of the boat show and promotion.
So I have to assume they don't have that kind of money at this point.
We certainly have done what we can to promote the brand, including having most models in stock for two years straight, and having all but one of the models in the 2009 Boat Show, and most of the models in the 2010 boat show.
We would love to have boats in stock right now, but there is no financing available to do so, either for us or the factory.
You assume that because Triton is the manufacturer they magically have the money, or access to the money, to market the boats. Believe me, if they did, they would.
After two years of displaying boats at the boat show and selling only one at the shows during that time, I can say with some authority that demand for new C-Dory's is soft right now.
Ranger Tug is doing very well. But it is a very different boat than a C-Dory. It is possible that the market has changed, and buyers are wanting a boat with more amenities than a C-Dory provides.
The beauty of the C-Dory is it's simple, solid design and construction. The downside of the C-Dory is it's simple, sparten design and construction. It is a great boat for many people, as this web page shows. But I think many buyers are looking for more in boats today- more creature comforts, more finish, more polish.
Ranger Tug has a richer, warmer look to them. And while there may be some overlap in demographics with C-Dory, the Rangers appeal to a broader spectrum of buyers.
It is not enough to say "If you build them, they will sell". The market changes. Just ask a Saturn owner.
You're leaving out the money. Who is going to pay for all of this marketing and promotion? Who is going to pay to build all those boats to display at the show? Who is going to pay for the cost of the space at the show?
You're talking about a comittment of over $200,000 by the factory to do the Seattle Boat Show as you describe. The Triton boys have been in this business long enough to get it. They know the value of the boat show and promotion.
So I have to assume they don't have that kind of money at this point.
We certainly have done what we can to promote the brand, including having most models in stock for two years straight, and having all but one of the models in the 2009 Boat Show, and most of the models in the 2010 boat show.
We would love to have boats in stock right now, but there is no financing available to do so, either for us or the factory.
You assume that because Triton is the manufacturer they magically have the money, or access to the money, to market the boats. Believe me, if they did, they would.
After two years of displaying boats at the boat show and selling only one at the shows during that time, I can say with some authority that demand for new C-Dory's is soft right now.
Ranger Tug is doing very well. But it is a very different boat than a C-Dory. It is possible that the market has changed, and buyers are wanting a boat with more amenities than a C-Dory provides.
The beauty of the C-Dory is it's simple, solid design and construction. The downside of the C-Dory is it's simple, sparten design and construction. It is a great boat for many people, as this web page shows. But I think many buyers are looking for more in boats today- more creature comforts, more finish, more polish.
Ranger Tug has a richer, warmer look to them. And while there may be some overlap in demographics with C-Dory, the Rangers appeal to a broader spectrum of buyers.
It is not enough to say "If you build them, they will sell". The market changes. Just ask a Saturn owner.
Everyone makes good points. No arguments there. I am just going to throw out something for your consideration: the slow (and rapidly not-so-slow) disappearance of the middle class in the U.S. (the concentration of wealth in the top 2% and the rapid growth of the working poor) is resulting in a diminishing population from which C-Dory owners came. I would suggest that the Ranger people are marketing to those who are transitioning to that 2% and want their amenities and are willing to pay for it. There are always outliers, of course -- people we know who have sold their houses and live on their boats and get their boats that way.
Warren
Warren
Thanks Matt, I think you caught the drift of my closing paragraph perfectly. You ARE making a personal investment to help Triton. It may not be a direct loan or shareholding but you are certainly investing in other ways, including the contributions to the C-Brats. Thanks for that. I'm sure we will all benefit.
Your comment about the shift in customer desires is also good. My wife would not have been happy with a 22. It doesn't have the touches that she looks for in a boat. "Happy wife = Happy life" and I have no desire or ability to customize beyond the usual electronics etc. so the Venture was a good choice. We also looked at a Ranger and came close to buying one. There isn't a right or wrong answer here, only customer choice. Doryman may have hit the nail on the head. I hope not for many obvious reasons but I will confess that we were looking for the comforts and were willing to pay. I meet a number of others reaching or nearing retirment with the same philosophy, often willing to sacrifice other things in life for that something extra in the thing they love most.
Pat, your comments about customer satisfaction are perfect. After 5 consecutive models of the same car I walked away and changed because they forgot me as a customer. They will survive I am sure, but they won't have me as a customer. Giving up that brand of car also helped finance the Venture :wink: . Let's give Triton all our support, and their excellent dealers as well.
Your comment about the shift in customer desires is also good. My wife would not have been happy with a 22. It doesn't have the touches that she looks for in a boat. "Happy wife = Happy life" and I have no desire or ability to customize beyond the usual electronics etc. so the Venture was a good choice. We also looked at a Ranger and came close to buying one. There isn't a right or wrong answer here, only customer choice. Doryman may have hit the nail on the head. I hope not for many obvious reasons but I will confess that we were looking for the comforts and were willing to pay. I meet a number of others reaching or nearing retirment with the same philosophy, often willing to sacrifice other things in life for that something extra in the thing they love most.
Pat, your comments about customer satisfaction are perfect. After 5 consecutive models of the same car I walked away and changed because they forgot me as a customer. They will survive I am sure, but they won't have me as a customer. Giving up that brand of car also helped finance the Venture :wink: . Let's give Triton all our support, and their excellent dealers as well.
journey on
New member
I can't leave good enough alone. Matt and Warren make another couple of good points.
First, remember Triton Marine didn't just fall off the turnip truck. As Matt points out they were successful boat builders with the SeaSport line, until the wheels came off. They don't have the financial backing that Ranger Tugs seems to have. And fancy boats seem to be selling right now, at least for Ranger Tugs. However, that's not a C-Dory and has never been C-Dory.
As Warren mentions, the top of the market seems to be going well. Whether or not the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer is above my place in life, but $200K 25' boats are selling better than $75K 25' boats. And Ranger is riding that horse. As a matter of fact, they're introducing bigger and better boats, along the line of Nordic Tugs. And Jeff is working overtime selling those things. Do you know they have a dealer in Russia? And one in Australia? And Japan? They certainly aren't trying to sell factory direct, but they are trying to sell. You betcha, that costs money.
How long that market keeps going is anybody's guess. There are more and more used Ranger Tugs on the market but that may be just the same turnover as one sees in great big RV's. Hang around any of the snowbird sites and there are a plethora of top end used RV's for sale. The retiree market isn't infinite and we don't keep our toys forever.
But Golly Darn It, that's not the C-Dory market and Triton is building C-Dory's. Pat, they're doing real well with customer service by the comments on this site and they aren't Scott Reynolds. And they can't go back to the old Marbin Marine concept and hope to survive with C-Dory. History is history and the guys who screwed up building them in the past are long gone. Unless they still own the molds. Anybody know about that?
Boris
First, remember Triton Marine didn't just fall off the turnip truck. As Matt points out they were successful boat builders with the SeaSport line, until the wheels came off. They don't have the financial backing that Ranger Tugs seems to have. And fancy boats seem to be selling right now, at least for Ranger Tugs. However, that's not a C-Dory and has never been C-Dory.
As Warren mentions, the top of the market seems to be going well. Whether or not the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer is above my place in life, but $200K 25' boats are selling better than $75K 25' boats. And Ranger is riding that horse. As a matter of fact, they're introducing bigger and better boats, along the line of Nordic Tugs. And Jeff is working overtime selling those things. Do you know they have a dealer in Russia? And one in Australia? And Japan? They certainly aren't trying to sell factory direct, but they are trying to sell. You betcha, that costs money.
How long that market keeps going is anybody's guess. There are more and more used Ranger Tugs on the market but that may be just the same turnover as one sees in great big RV's. Hang around any of the snowbird sites and there are a plethora of top end used RV's for sale. The retiree market isn't infinite and we don't keep our toys forever.
But Golly Darn It, that's not the C-Dory market and Triton is building C-Dory's. Pat, they're doing real well with customer service by the comments on this site and they aren't Scott Reynolds. And they can't go back to the old Marbin Marine concept and hope to survive with C-Dory. History is history and the guys who screwed up building them in the past are long gone. Unless they still own the molds. Anybody know about that?
Boris
Captains Cat
New member
Great article Pat. Now we have a reference to all the newbies that ask about C-Dory and their history!
I think it's really the "economy" that is the factor here. The key statement in the article was that the factory filled all their build slots at the boat shows for the year. If the economy were what it was in 2004-6, they would have no problem. And they could finance the marketing costs because banks would loan money to small folks with a good business model. And the references to the owners being the best salesmen are right on... Triton is trying, if they have more customers, they can have more customer service. And more customer service makes more customers... It's a vicious circle!
Finally, and once again, Great Article Pat...thanks.
Charlie
I think it's really the "economy" that is the factor here. The key statement in the article was that the factory filled all their build slots at the boat shows for the year. If the economy were what it was in 2004-6, they would have no problem. And they could finance the marketing costs because banks would loan money to small folks with a good business model. And the references to the owners being the best salesmen are right on... Triton is trying, if they have more customers, they can have more customer service. And more customer service makes more customers... It's a vicious circle!
Finally, and once again, Great Article Pat...thanks.
Charlie
Pat Anderson
New member
What I actually wrote in the article about dealers:
Until 2006, most C-Dorys were sold by the factory sales force at the Seattle Boat Show. There was a dealer network from Portland south, and in various locations throughout the country, but factory direct sales and service was the primary business model, and it was very successful.
I never suggested that this dealer network OUTSIDE of the area traditionally service with factory direct sales and service should go away. This included Wefings (not "Werfings"!), who is now quite successful with Ranger Tugs, and a handful of other dealers, and I am sure these would be welcome back into the fold with C-Dory, although the Cape Cruiser fiasco certainly did a bit of damage in that regard. And so, Boris, you would keep your California dealer.
What I actually wrote about money:
So there is a glimmer of hope for the survival of the C-Dory line. Can it rise again? That is very uncertain.
[snip]
So 2011 will be a watershed year for C-Dory. Triton Marine needs to make some tough choices about whether it will stick with the ineffective dealer sales business model or return to the successful direct factory sales and service model. They need to figure out how they can marshal the resources to have an effective sales presence at the Seattle Boat Show in 2012. We hope to see C-Dory 16s, 22s, 25s and Tomcats, all nicely staged with tables set with floral centerpieces, “Boat Show Special” package prices, and people on the floor ready to write contracts and take deposits once again.
A glimmer of hope, the future is uncertain, they need to figure out how they can marshal the resources. Yes, it takes money, and I have no idea whether they can pull it off or not. If they can't come to the 2012 SBS with all the boats, they need to be able to figure out how they can come with one, say, a well equipped CD25 cruiser, ready to cruise, with a "Boat Show Special" package price, and photo boards and brochures for the rest of the line. If they cannot do this, I certainly would agree that they are more than likely toast. But for sure, they simply cannot afford another pathetic showing at the SBS like 2011.
Until 2006, most C-Dorys were sold by the factory sales force at the Seattle Boat Show. There was a dealer network from Portland south, and in various locations throughout the country, but factory direct sales and service was the primary business model, and it was very successful.
I never suggested that this dealer network OUTSIDE of the area traditionally service with factory direct sales and service should go away. This included Wefings (not "Werfings"!), who is now quite successful with Ranger Tugs, and a handful of other dealers, and I am sure these would be welcome back into the fold with C-Dory, although the Cape Cruiser fiasco certainly did a bit of damage in that regard. And so, Boris, you would keep your California dealer.
What I actually wrote about money:
So there is a glimmer of hope for the survival of the C-Dory line. Can it rise again? That is very uncertain.
[snip]
So 2011 will be a watershed year for C-Dory. Triton Marine needs to make some tough choices about whether it will stick with the ineffective dealer sales business model or return to the successful direct factory sales and service model. They need to figure out how they can marshal the resources to have an effective sales presence at the Seattle Boat Show in 2012. We hope to see C-Dory 16s, 22s, 25s and Tomcats, all nicely staged with tables set with floral centerpieces, “Boat Show Special” package prices, and people on the floor ready to write contracts and take deposits once again.
A glimmer of hope, the future is uncertain, they need to figure out how they can marshal the resources. Yes, it takes money, and I have no idea whether they can pull it off or not. If they can't come to the 2012 SBS with all the boats, they need to be able to figure out how they can come with one, say, a well equipped CD25 cruiser, ready to cruise, with a "Boat Show Special" package price, and photo boards and brochures for the rest of the line. If they cannot do this, I certainly would agree that they are more than likely toast. But for sure, they simply cannot afford another pathetic showing at the SBS like 2011.
journey on
New member
Pat,
I enjoyed your article for the historical perspective and I actually lived through that era. However the future is harder to predict. I certainly don't know what Triton Marine has in mind for selling boats, but they clearly have the capability to be a dealer since they advertise: "Triton Marine is a full service boat repair facility". I assume that also means they have a dealer license since they sell used boats. Discussing this with them when you see them would be a good idea as to what they plan. As opposed to either of us guessing.
You might mention your idea of Triton selling factory direct to Kitsup and Muster Marine. I assume that Triton has dealer agreements with them, though you would know more that I what that means. Also, I don't need a SoCal dealer, I just think they need one more in tune with simple small power boats. No insult to Catelina Yacht Sales, but they're more Ranger Tug people than usn.
I totally agree with your concept of a good appearance at select boat shows. Catalina did/does this in conjunction with their dealers, and we bought a sailboat that way. Your idea of a single good boat example staffed by knowledgeable people from both dealers and factory is what is needed to be back in the marketplace. I certainly hope that Triton reaches that point.
Boris
I enjoyed your article for the historical perspective and I actually lived through that era. However the future is harder to predict. I certainly don't know what Triton Marine has in mind for selling boats, but they clearly have the capability to be a dealer since they advertise: "Triton Marine is a full service boat repair facility". I assume that also means they have a dealer license since they sell used boats. Discussing this with them when you see them would be a good idea as to what they plan. As opposed to either of us guessing.
You might mention your idea of Triton selling factory direct to Kitsup and Muster Marine. I assume that Triton has dealer agreements with them, though you would know more that I what that means. Also, I don't need a SoCal dealer, I just think they need one more in tune with simple small power boats. No insult to Catelina Yacht Sales, but they're more Ranger Tug people than usn.
I totally agree with your concept of a good appearance at select boat shows. Catalina did/does this in conjunction with their dealers, and we bought a sailboat that way. Your idea of a single good boat example staffed by knowledgeable people from both dealers and factory is what is needed to be back in the marketplace. I certainly hope that Triton reaches that point.
Boris
Thanks for the different and also respectful comments on this thread. Thanks Pat for helping us understand the history and thanks Matt G [Kitsap] for your continued contribution on this site.
Just an idea to help Triton, since I want to see both Ranger and CDory do well and they are different markets. Yes a presence at the SBS is important - maybe Triton can do it next year but if not and the economy continues its slow recovery [some sectors] we could help w an interim CBrat boat show [Marine education weekend] till they have more momentum.
Have a CBrat Get together at Bremerton like Ranger did the last two years - seminars on oil changes, glass repair - we all show up with lots of boats, we show off our customizations, take people for rides, have the usual fun and food, Triton shows up w their sales team to teach a couple of classes and take orders. We could provide the floor models till Triton turns enough profit.
We could also copy some of the NW Kayak symposium ideas where once a year there are several days of seminars on all aspects of marine activity along w dealers selling kayaks and gear. Several of us could teach our area. It would feel inviting to new potential CDory owners. In an age of digital and social media [that can lead to whole countries now shedding tyranny] we should be able to figure out how to help Triton get to the next level.
I attended the Bremerton Ranger Tug festival this last spring, Jeff took me out on the 25 - Joe and Ruth were enthusiastic new owners and the best sales team. Jeff remembered my name, interests, and what we discussed months later when we met at the SBS. While in Bremerton, I toured several boats, checked out the boats and owners, enjoyed the practical engine seminar by the Yanmar experts. Like Pat, I really do like the Ranger tug perhaps more importantly my other family members like having more space, don't know yet if it's on my horizon but I sure want us all to have both options. As usual thanks for the great energy here.
Jim
Just an idea to help Triton, since I want to see both Ranger and CDory do well and they are different markets. Yes a presence at the SBS is important - maybe Triton can do it next year but if not and the economy continues its slow recovery [some sectors] we could help w an interim CBrat boat show [Marine education weekend] till they have more momentum.
Have a CBrat Get together at Bremerton like Ranger did the last two years - seminars on oil changes, glass repair - we all show up with lots of boats, we show off our customizations, take people for rides, have the usual fun and food, Triton shows up w their sales team to teach a couple of classes and take orders. We could provide the floor models till Triton turns enough profit.
We could also copy some of the NW Kayak symposium ideas where once a year there are several days of seminars on all aspects of marine activity along w dealers selling kayaks and gear. Several of us could teach our area. It would feel inviting to new potential CDory owners. In an age of digital and social media [that can lead to whole countries now shedding tyranny] we should be able to figure out how to help Triton get to the next level.
I attended the Bremerton Ranger Tug festival this last spring, Jeff took me out on the 25 - Joe and Ruth were enthusiastic new owners and the best sales team. Jeff remembered my name, interests, and what we discussed months later when we met at the SBS. While in Bremerton, I toured several boats, checked out the boats and owners, enjoyed the practical engine seminar by the Yanmar experts. Like Pat, I really do like the Ranger tug perhaps more importantly my other family members like having more space, don't know yet if it's on my horizon but I sure want us all to have both options. As usual thanks for the great energy here.
Jim
jstates":3bswa4wj said:...
Have a CBrat Get together at Bremerton like Ranger did the last two years - seminars on oil changes, glass repair - we all show up with lots of boats, we show off our customizations, take people for rides, have the usual fun and food, Triton shows up w their sales team to teach a couple of classes and take orders. We could provide the floor models till Triton turns enough profit.
We could also copy some of the NW Kayak symposium ideas where once a year there are several days of seminars on all aspects of marine activity along w dealers selling kayaks and gear. Several of us could teach our area. It would feel inviting to new potential CDory owners. In an age of digital and social media [that can lead to whole countries now shedding tyranny] we should be able to figure out how to help Triton get to the next level.
...
Jim
One of the telling statements in the above is "WE should be able to figure out how to help Triton get to the next level." We can all make recommendations (as many of us have done over the years), but it is the factory's business plan, not ours. No matter how much we'd like to help, they first have to determine if that fits the way they are structuring their business. This group made suggestions regarding the SBS, but the dealer's display was lackluster and the factory's participation was minimal. This may be as much as they want right now. In another thread, Peter said it looked busy at the factory shop, so they may not be looking for growth... the factory folks haven't really asked for our help in building their business and historically haven't given much credence to our suggestions.
I suggested cruising seminars to the two previous "keepers" of C-Dory. Same thing with some easy upgrades to make the boat more functional. Also other marketing ideas. Never received more than a polite "Uh huh," in response. The Triton folks have many years of experience in the boat building biz, and they may be doing just exactly what they want. We all have contact information here, and I'd be surprised if anyone has received a note or a call from the factory, asking for our help. I have no idea who (or if anyone) at the factory level is in charge of marketing.
Pat's article was from the perspective of a boat owner. I am sure each of the factory folks from the past would have a completely different perspective. Triton Marine has no obligation to follow the business practices of the past, but they are in charge of where they would like to be in the future... otherwise, they are like a ship without a rudder. Most businesses don't fail because of a lack of business, they fail because of a lack of a business plan. A good plan (including marketing) is how the good ones make it through the tough times. These days, building a good product isn't enough. I don't think any of us are privy to Triton's plan.
In the grand scheme of all things C-Dory, we are the Pep Squad. We are not the coach or the quarterback. We can all cheer "Defense!", but we're not in a position to "send in a play." I wish Triton success; history can certainly be something to be learned from (and the real point of Pat's article).
Jim B.
<<stuff clipped>>
Jim, as usual, you are spot on. You said it all in the last paragraph, we ARE the Pep Squad and in no position to send in the play. I've always felt that sometimes we C-Brats lose sight of that point. I too wish Triton success and if what I saw yesterday is any indication, there doesn't seem to be any shortage of work for them. Let's hope it gets even busier, although they may need more room at that point.
One of the telling statements in the above is "WE should be able to figure out how to help Triton get to the next level." We can all make recommendations (as many of us have done over the years), but it is the factory's business plan, not ours. No matter how much we'd like to help, they first have to determine if that fits the way they are structuring their business. This group made suggestions regarding the SBS, but the dealer's display was lackluster and the factory's participation was minimal. This may be as much as they want right now. In another thread, Peter said it looked busy at the factory shop, so they may not be looking for growth... the factory folks haven't really asked for our help in building their business and historically haven't given much credence to our suggestions.
I suggested cruising seminars to the two previous "keepers" of C-Dory. Same thing with some easy upgrades to make the boat more functional. Also other marketing ideas. Never received more than a polite "Uh huh," in response. The Triton folks have many years of experience in the boat building biz, and they may be doing just exactly what they want. We all have contact information here, and I'd be surprised if anyone has received a note or a call from the factory, asking for our help. I have no idea who (or if anyone) at the factory level is in charge of marketing.
Pat's article was from the perspective of a boat owner. I am sure each of the factory folks from the past would have a completely different perspective. Triton Marine has no obligation to follow the business practices of the past, but they are in charge of where they would like to be in the future... otherwise, they are like a ship without a rudder. Most businesses don't fail because of a lack of business, they fail because of a lack of a business plan. A good plan (including marketing) is how the good ones make it through the tough times. These days, building a good product isn't enough. I don't think any of us are privy to Triton's plan.
In the grand scheme of all things C-Dory, we are the Pep Squad. We are not the coach or the quarterback. We can all cheer "Defense!", but we're not in a position to "send in a play." I wish Triton success; history can certainly be something to be learned from (and the real point of Pat's article).
Jim B.
Jim, as usual, you are spot on. You said it all in the last paragraph, we ARE the Pep Squad and in no position to send in the play. I've always felt that sometimes we C-Brats lose sight of that point. I too wish Triton success and if what I saw yesterday is any indication, there doesn't seem to be any shortage of work for them. Let's hope it gets even busier, although they may need more room at that point.
Pat Anderson
New member
So, Peter, what did you see yesterday?
The one thing that seems most strange to me is that Scott Boysen has not weighed in here at all, or emailed or PM'd me, and I have had a few exchanges of ideas with Scott...
Where the heck is Triton on all of this?
The one thing that seems most strange to me is that Scott Boysen has not weighed in here at all, or emailed or PM'd me, and I have had a few exchanges of ideas with Scott...
Where the heck is Triton on all of this?