FCC Licenses for International Cruising

[RobMcClain]

Over the years we have had many discussions on this forum regarding US requirements governing VHF use when crossing into Canadian waters. Mary and I have never made this crossing but are planning to do so this summer - so we have never had the 2 licenses required (nor an FCC issued MMSI that could be used internationally).

After much thinking and research I decided we should be safe and legal so yesterday afternoon, following guidance in the Waggoner Cruising Guide, I accessed the FCC website and its Universal Licensing System to apply for a Restricted Radio Operator Permit and a Ship Station License (including a new official MMSI). After logging into the site I applied for each license online and then paid using plastic. Twice I ran into a small glitch with my understanding so I called the help number and within ~1 minute I was talking to a real person. In both cases my questions were quickly and clearly answered and I was back at work completing the necessary electronic forms. When I opened my E-mail this morning I found an official copy of each license! I printed each and am now ready to cross the border with no concerns about using my VHF. From starting the application process to delivery of each license took less than 24 hours!

The purpose of my post is simply to let folks know how quick and simple it is to apply for and receive the necessary licenses for international cruising - if you are so inclined. The 2 licenses are pricey ($290 in total), but I'm one of those guys who wants to be safe and legal, with no worries if asked for something. I do not wish to open any discussion about the pros/cons of these requirements. I was very pleased by the FCC service.

Rob

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I went through the same process without the computer glitches. I printed out the licence on card stock for my log book and another copy to laminate for my wallet. Plus, I kept the Email copy in my downloads. $290 for a "number" that I may not need or use is pricey. I could help justify it as being "safety equipment," but that amount of $$ could buy a really huge fire extinguisher.

Mark

 

[hardee]

Rob, Like you, I decided to have the right paperwork "In case". I did my application through Roger's Marine Electronics in Portland, and it was similarly easy. Yeah, the fee is a bit, but consider it an investment in your peace of mind along with an extra level of safety.

Good on ya'

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[starcrafttom]

Just my opinion- waste of money for a piece of paper that no one is ever asked me for. I do not nor will I ( or most boaters) ever get one.

But glad to hear it was easy.

 

[thataway]

If you are gong to use an AIS transmitter, or Marine SSB, I would say that registration is essential. Only way to get the international MMSI number and a ship's radios station call sign. We all are required to have the restricted Radio Operators's license (free--lifetime).

Some of those fees are to register with the FCC--I do so with my Ham Call sign, thus use that same FCC number for any marine license... Like most on our C Dory we have never hand the FCC call sign. For the larger boats--definately we have had it.

 

[Foggy]

TJE may have it right. I've done it by the book and never needed any of it.

Regarding getting a ship's license, MMSI #, station license, etc you will get an
FRN# (Federal Registration Number) to retain for all future correspondence.
I've used this FRN more than any of the other numbers I've applied for in any
contact with the FCC about anything.

In it all, you automatically get a ship's radio station call sign when you've
completed your filing. I never needed or used this either.

Best to comply with the law, no doubt. Always critique, question and be skeptical
of everything nonsensical, foolish or unnecessary and voice your thoughts
appropriately to the proper authority.

Aye.

 

[RichardM]

Whether you ever go to Canada or not, it's past time to have a VHF with DSC (digital selective calling) and an MMSI number for your boat. This safety feature has been available for about 10 years now. It's included on low priced VHFs, even handhelds. If your radio is too old or too simple to have it, get with the program. It will even let you set up simple ways to call your fishing or cruising friends directly and privately.

The MMSI is a "phone number" for your boat's VHF. In case of emergency you just hit a red button on the radio and it will automatically send a distress call including your boat's name and description -- and your location if you've hooked the radio to your GPS or plotter -- to the Coast Guard. You can probably get your MMSI free. US Power Squadrons offers an easy free MMSI signup, and Boat US will also handle it (I think free, but not certain). You do it on the web.

Incidentally the MMSI has nothing to do with going to Canada. It's all about your not dying, not about your travel plans.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Mentioning the MMSI reminds me of three things I want to do at Friday Harbor this year (assuming that I get there). First, actually using the MMSI with other C-Brats and even trying the C-Brats MMSI. Second, get my AIS working and if I can't, ask some C-Brats to help me trouble shoot. Third, have a C-Brat with radar check to see if the Limpet even shows up on a screen.

Drinking coffee and yakking on the dock is all fine, but I've got projects.

Mark

 

[hardee]

Bob said:

"....Like most on our C Dory we have never hand the FCC call sign. For the larger boats--definitely we have had it."

I have been hailed by my FCC Call Sign one time, but Vessel Traffic Control out of Prince Rupert. They tried it twice, and then called the boat name. VT was seeing my AIS signal and wanted some confirmation of direction and intention. They also called my MMSI # verbally after they called the FCC Call Sign. They mentioned both tries, when I finally answered to the "SleepyC" call.

I now have a boat ID card up and visible that has all the pertinent numbers, just in case. (The VT operator was surprised I didn't have those all memorized and recognized. --> I think he just was busstin my chops for his enjoyment.)

That call did confirm to me that I show up on the VT monitors. (active AIS transponder.) And, that Canada has access to a data base that my MMSI is listed in, or that my AIS output is providing that information.

Mark, I think you are on the right track and the Friday Harbor CBGT would be a great place to do some MMSI, DSC calling, practice.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[starcrafttom]

If you dont have a mmsi# and you hit the little red button what happens? Your location goes out to everyone including coast guard and they come get you. Even in Canada.

That said, having the boat type, name and size going out with your location makes the job easier, I just dont want anyone getting the idea that your unit wont work unless you register.

 

[thataway]

If you dont have a mmsi# and you hit the little red button what happens? Your location goes out to everyone including coast guard and they come get you. Even in Canada.

That said, having the boat type, name and size going out with your location makes the job easier, I just dont want anyone getting the idea that your unit wont work unless you register.

Tom the Coast Guard Commander I discussed this with, indicated that there would be no response until the MMSI number was programed into the VHF radio. That information may be in error. But it was given in front of Florida Marine Patrol officers, Sheriff's boat operators, and about a dozen commercial dive boat operators, and no one differed.

It is possible that this information given by the CG officer may have been in error. He was not in uniform, but was addressed as "Commander" by the meeting's moderator. It could also be an issue with our CG district...District 8, Mobile Al. Sector.

 

[Pat Anderson]

Just my opinion- waste of money for a piece of paper that no one is ever asked me for. I do not nor will I ( or most boaters) ever get one.

But glad to hear it was easy.

Agree with Tom on this one...FCC does not monitor what you do in Canada, the Canadians don't care if you have an Amercan license, although there is a requirement for a Canadian license if you are in their waters for some extended period, forget what it is. The FCC does not monitor VHF use in the US, only the CG does to ensure you are not using the call channel for rag chews! All in all, NOBODY on this site has, in the 11 years we have been members and following it, EVER reported a problem for using their VHF in Canada without FCC licenses. So, everyone should do what makes them feel comfortable, but IMHO, it is a huge waste of money.

I have used my 2 meter ham radio in Canada, only requirement there (in BC) is to append VE7 to your call, so in Canada, I am KD7OAC/VE7.

 

[hardee]

If you don't have a mmsi# and you hit the little red button what happens? Your location goes out to everyone including coast guard and they come get you. Even in Canada.

That said, having the boat type, name and size going out with your location makes the job easier, I just dont want anyone getting the idea that your unit wont work unless you register.

Tom, that subject was discussed and researched not long back. I was of the same opinion as you, but went back and re-read the manuals for each of my VHF's, and all 3 have the same info. If the MMSI Number IS NOT installed into the VHF radio, the DSC function will not activate even when the red cover button is depressed.

It is all in the following thread:

SOS Distress Light on P-2
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=25098&start=15

There is more discussion on the same topic and I have distilled some of it here:

ssobol wrote:
My understanding for an unregistered DSC radio is that the DSC activation will still send your position.

hardee wrote:

FIRST OF ALL, IF you install a DSC VHF radio, It has to have GPS input from someplace, either an internal GPS (of which there are becoming more available), connected to a GPS or to an MFD with GPS output.

IF that is done, THEN your VHF will send out a signal with your location when you lift the Red Cover and push and hold the DSC Emergency button. I believe that is common for all brands, (But you should check with your VHF instructions or manufacture's rep for your specific model.)

Slightly off topic here but Harvey's last sentence above is important - don't assume your assume DSC will work without an MMSI programmed until you check your manual first. Quoting the manuals for both my radios, a GX2200 and GX5500, they both say:
"To be able to transmit a DSC distress signal, an MMSI number must be programed"
This disclaimer is highlighted immediately preceding the instructions on pressing the little red Distress button.

-Mike
_________________
1990 16' Angler "Lil'C"
2016 22' Cruiser "Big C"

DSC will not work without a MMSI number. I noted on another thread, that I was involved with a diving safety protocol last week and I had recommended that the channel 16 call with an injured diver aboard should be elevated to May Day level, and DSC deployed. The Coast Guard commander in attendance noted that over 99% of vessels do not have functional DSC, because they don't have the MMSI number.

Same for the newer handheld VHF which have DSC--they also need the MMSI number.
_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011

From Jay on Hunkydory:
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:17 pm Post subject:
________________________________________

Hunkydory wrote:
Here http://www.offshoreblue.com/communications/dsc.php it says the DSC function will not work without a MMSI number enabled. I don't know for sure if that's true or not.

Bob, that is why I posted the above link. In it is this quote "If you elect not to apply for and enter a MMSI number into your marine radio, the DSC features will not be functional.". With so many saying otherwise, I thought, even though clearly stated, it must mean just some functions of DSC don't work, but boat position if activated would be shown.

This is from a post I placed:
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:55 am Post subject:
________________________________________

Here is a copy of the paragraph from that article. Note the operative word "full" which I highlighted.

"Once you have received your MMSI number, you must enter it into your DSC equipped radio. Each radio’s manual will have instructions how to enter the number. Once this is done your radio will have full Digital Selective Calling capabilities. If you elect not to apply for and enter a MMSI number into your marine radio, the DSC features will not be functional."

The line in Italics (my emphasis) is true for Standard Horizon GX2200, ICOM M-506 and Raymarine 218. Some maunals have that info easier to find than others, had to dig in the ICOM one. I don't know if it is true for other mfg vhf's.

I do agree that there is less than a 0.001% chance of being asked for proof of radio license when operating in Canada, so it is most likely possible to get by without having that FCC paper, but according to US FCC regulations you are supposed to have it if you are operating your VHF outside of US boundary waters. OK, That's government logic. You are free to use your own.

As the OP noted, it wasn't hard to do, only $$$.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[thataway]

To check on my statement that DSC will not work, unless the MMSI (and GPS is connected or the radio has built in GPS)--I checked, the manuals of the 2 fixed and one hand held radios on my boat which have DSC. The manuals clearly state that DSC will not work unless the MMSI (and GPS connected) are programed into the radio. One many states that an error message will appear on the screen--but no transmission.

Here is a warning from the Wagoneer cruising guide:

According to industry sources, fewer than 10% of marine VHF radios have a working DISTRESS DSC button. Why? Most VHF radio owners have not bothered to register for an MMSI number and enter it into their VHF radio (full disclosure: I was one of them several years ago. I kept putting it off…) And they have not connected the VHF radio to a GPS signal on the boat. It is not that difficult, or expensive if a marine electronics shop does it. If this is you, not only is DSC essential for summoning emergency help, it allows you to hear other boats in trouble, and it can be handy to call friends, or make general announcements to other vessels.


If you are one of the 90%, imagine this:
You are incapacitated on your boat, or in the water. One of your crew or family runs to the VHF, sees the red DISTRESS button, presses the button, but nothing happens. Unfortunately, they do not even know nothing happened. They can call for help on VHF 16, but they might not know how to operate the GPS to provide a position to the Coast Guard.

This issue of the DSC not working without the MMSI number was also addressed in the thread on SOS signals.

 

[Saxe Point]

I read some time ago that statistic about how few VHF radio owners take advantage of the MMSI and GPS location features of DSC radios (and all VHF radios sold since about a decade or so ago are DSC equipped by law). I find it truly baffling that so many are not taking advantage of a safety feature that is so easy and so valuable - I would argue invaluable.

In emergencies time is always of the essence and panic can make routine tasks much tougher or impossible to complete. Pushing one button to send out an emergency broadcast of your identity and GPS coordinates to all VHF receivers within range could make all the difference.

 

[chimoii]

I confess that I also truly find it amazing that a mariner would operate a vessel without an MMSI number entered and the DSC enabled. As Chimo is a Canadian vessel and I do enter US waters from time to time I am obligated to obtain a licence. I just renewed mine covering my radio and radar.

I also have obtained the obligatory, in Canada, marine radio operators licence with DSC endorsement. Though I had been using a marine VHF for more than 25 years, mainly in the US, I took the course before getting the licence. It was good to get a refresher on proper procedures including Mayday, Pan-Pan and Securite . (How many times do you hear a request for a radio check on 16?). Finally it was good to learn how to respond to DSC alarms triggered by others or the Coast Guard.

That last item came in useful a couple of weeks ago. I was really startled when an emergency alarm went off on my radio. It alerted me to the fact that a kayak had been reported overturned about a mile away and there was someone in the water. Fortunately there was a boat closer to me who also picked up the signal and responded. I don't know how I would have felt if my DSC had not been enabled, I had missed the alarm and someone had drowned. Probably like the crew of the freighter the morning after they watched the lights go out on the Titanic.

I single-hand 90% of the time. I wear an inflatable life jacket when I out of the cabin/cockpit. (I also confess to wearing a seat belt when driving the car and I have not disabled the airbags.) I hope that, should I have a medical or other emergency, I will be able to reach that red button on the radio. I'm even glad that on the R25 it is reachable from a crawl position rather than being in the overhead as it was on the Venture 23 (though operating is a lot less convenient). I hope that if I ever do have to press that button someone nearby will have applied for an MMSI and will have their DSC enabled. The Coast Guard will be able to tell them where I am and give them a full description of Chimo.

 

[thataway]

I
That last item came in useful a couple of weeks ago. I was really startled when an emergency alarm went off on my radio. It alerted me to the fact that a kayak had been reported overturned about a mile away and there was someone in the water. Fortunately there was a boat closer to me who also picked up the signal and responded. I don't know how I would have felt if my DSC had not been enabled, I had missed the alarm and someone had drowned. Probably like the crew of the freighter the morning after they watched the lights go out on the Titanic.

I single-hand 90% of the time. I wear an inflatable life jacket when I out of the cabin/cockpit. (I also confess to wearing a seat belt when driving the car and I have not disabled the airbags.) I hope that, should I have a medical or other emergency, I will be able to reach that red button on the radio. I'm even glad that on the R25 it is reachable from a crawl position rather than being in the overhead as it was on the Venture 23 (though operating is a lot less convenient). I hope that if I ever do have to press that button someone nearby will have applied for an MMSI and will have their DSC enabled. The Coast Guard will be able to tell them where I am and give them a full description of Chimo.

I believe that all of the modern VHF radios will receive the DSC alert, even without the DSC/MMSI enabled. However, I don't believe that such a radio will relay the distress DSC.

There are now several hand held VHF radios, such as the Standard Horizon HX 870, which have DSC (Built in GPS receiver), are water proof, and can be worn on the life vest/person. Also these come with a separate AAA battery tray, so still useful if the rechargeable battery runs down.