Erie/Champlain canals/Lake Champlain Adventure

G

Gulfcoastjohn

New member
Hello Brats!

We are planning a one-way Adventure to explore Lake Champlain in NY/VT (segment 1) and then down the Champlain Canal (segment 2, 60 miles, 12 locks) then into the Erie Canal system (338 miles, 35 locks) with side trips into the Cayuga-Seneca Canal into those Finger Lakes (2 locks). Seneca Lake is 50 miles long with 5 wineries, Cayuga Lake is 43 miles long with 10 wineries, so if we absolutely must chop a lake, it will be Seneca since Cayuga has less...length.

http://www.canals.ny.gov/navinfo/charts/wineries.pdf

Start/End points can be reversed, but we’d like to use marinas with the steep n’ deep ramps a TomCat needs with secure rig storage, restrooms and hot showers. Floyd did indeed capture the essence of Bumpus Mills Marina in his video of the Cumberland/Tennessee adventure, in that it did not have a winery attached. Thankfully. It would have produced wine that was even more expensive than diesel, but without the bouquet, and a palate finish not as sweet or as well-defined as the diesel. Port Henry marina on Lake Champlain appears to fit the bill as does Anchor Marine on Grand Isle, NY at the western Erie canal end. There we’ll get an Enterprise rental car back to port Henry marina, I retrieve the rig and Eileen drives the rental car back to Tonawonda (6hr, 338 miles). That would be one long day, so we plan to stay on the boat at Anchor Marine that night and pull out the next day.

Montreal is only 2 hours from the Port Henry marina start point by truck, so we might as well take that in too, esp after I’ve trailered 1,500 miles @ 500mi/day. 5-star hotel with hot tub time.

We are allotting 30-37 days (not including 6.5 trailering and 1 rental car days) with lots of flexibility. The Genesee River and Oswego Canal offer escape routes into Lake Ontario and back to Lake Champlain via the St Lawrence Seaway and Rideau canals if needed. Last year Lake Ontario while we were there trended much calmer than a typical summer afternoon on Pensacola Bay; a TomCat would snort it up easy.

We have searched the site for others inputs, the most valuable to us being Boris’s experience of having to wait for 2 WEEKS at the Waterford end of the Erie for rain flooding the system to resolve before they could even start their Erie Canal trip. On the other hand, they were on a big demasted sailboat that can’t be trailered. We’d have lots of options. We’ll sign on to the Notice to Mariners when the NY canal system opens mid May (free transits in 2019).

We find descriptions of the Erie canal and Lake Champlain sounding more desirable than the connecting Champlain Canal, but at only 60 miles long, at our 23-28MPH cruising speeds it would take ust as long to re-load, trailer and re-launch at acceptable ramps than to just boat it.

Much of the Erie canal has a “ripples/no wake/10MPH” speed limit, but Cat O’ Mine won’t stay on plane in Heavy Cruise mode at under 15 MPH and is past ‘ripples’ at 7-8 MPH, unless you accept 12-inch ‘ripples’. So we’re looking at 300 miles at about 6MPH (excepting Lake Onieda).

Skipper Bob’s NY Canal System ordered. Undecided on whether to take our folding Montague bikes, Honda 2000iu (propane for heat, hot water and cooking works fine for us) or buying a Sea Eagle 380 kayak for now.

Appreciate any input, comments or suggestions from those many Brats who have experience there! We always learn a lot and have had great advice here.

John
 
We spent 6 weeks cruising the Erie Canal and Hudson River in our CD-25. I think your 30 to 37 days will give you plenty of time to enjoy the cruising at a leisurely pace. We had zero use for our dinghy while on the NY Canals, but the folding bikes were used at most of our stops - easier to explore further from the boat in an afternoon.

A lot of the canal is 10mph and/or no wake. Since many of the towns are just a few miles apart, if you are taking the time to see what each town has to offer, displacement speed will do you well.

Your TomCat will be great for this cruising, even if you won't be able to run at your planing speed all the time.

I think the NY Canal System is a real treat for boaters. Have fun!

-------------

If you find "The Cruising Adventures of Wild Blue and Crew" in the Grand Adventures part of this forum, summer 2009 was our time on the Erie Canal.
 
Sounds like a wonderful trip . I missed the Tenn river trip with boat problems and my Brother passing away Hopefully this year will be better Is Sept your launch time ? Jim

Will I see you at Hontoon this March ?
 
but at only 60 miles long, at our 23-28MPH cruising speeds it would take ust as long to re-load, trailer and re-launch at acceptable ramps than to just boat it.
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Sounds like a great trip, but the Champlain canal has some areas with speed limits. More limiting are the 11 locks along the 60+ miles.
 
Hi John,

Your trip sounds great, you will need quite a bit of time, as others have already pointed out, regarding the locks. It usually took us about 20 minutes/lock, in terms of waiting and then locking through. The lock masters(operators) were always friendly and helpful. Bring some gloves for the lock lines! Lake Champlain is beautiful, we never boated there, but have spent some time in the area. Burlington VT is a great town, if you plan to travel that far. Seneca Lake is impressive, with lots of wineries, as you mention. The US Navy has a sonar research station on Seneca Lake, due to the fact it is over 600' deep in spots.

By the way, the Genesee River won't get you to Lake Ontario. There are 2 large water falls in the way! You can travel up the river to a spot called Corn Hill Landing. that is a scenic, relatively short trip up from the canal. There are a few nice restaurants in Corn Hill, with a pretty good view of the city of Rochester.

We kept our 22' Cruiser (C-Renity) on the canal for a few years, our boat is currently up for sale at Wefing's Marine, with Mark Grove. Let us know when you're in the area. We'd love to get together if your travel permits.
Regards,
Jack
 
Thanks All! Just the sorts of reality checks we’re looking for!

Bob,
You are absolutely right (do you ever get tired of me saying that?), there are 11 locks, not 2. Peterbrownell’s Champlain Brat post and the NYcanals.com page blithely mention one day, but now that looks way too optimistic to me.

“The Champlain Canal is a 60 mile canal that connects the Hudson River at Waterford to southern Lake Champlain at Whitehall. Beginning from the south at Waterford, the northbound trip along the Champlain Canal can be made as a day trip by fast movers and take three to four days (or more!) days of exploration for others.”

http://www.nycanals.com/Champlain_Canal

Colby and Jim,
We are all signed up for Hontoon in March, but Colby would bail just because all of Wisconsin is buried under 8 feet of snow and ice and all the roads are closed. However, we will definitely be there unless weather conditions are totally incompatible with human life, such as 45 (50?) degrees and rainy.
We have a family reunion in SC about Aug 11 or 17-21 so plan to end around SC about then, and start July 1 or so since trailering/Montreal touristing/rental car days don’t count as boating days.

Colby, summer 2020 is our planned PNW Adventure, at least 6-8 weeks boating, including all of August. Consistent advice from Pat/Patti Anderson and Bob is that if we trailer from FL allow at least 6 weeks boating time there with 12-15 days trailering. We urge you to change your plans to next summer so you can show us around the PNW then, (how selfish) and spend this summer 2019 on the best of The Loop!
After we end up on the West end of the Erie canal near Tonawanda, you can continue on to get the ‘single scoop’ best of the Trent Severn (not free this year) by trailering to Rice Lake, Ontario, launch at Harris Boat Works (secure rig storage but not free), enter the TS at km112. Go up the Peterborough and Kirkfield Lift Locks, over the Big Chute Marine Railway, to Driftwood Cove marina at the west end of the TS (Port Severn, km 386) plus many regular locks which will be easy, but clearer water than the Erie.
That gives you a great taste of the TS, which has 45 locks, but only those 3 are unique (and not ‘locks’) and they alone are worth spending half a day at each.
Lyft back to Harris marina from Driftwood Cove, retrieve your rig and re-position at Driftwood Cove marina, which is right at the west end of the TS Lock 45 (the smallest and the rate limiting factor for the entire system). It’s at the entrance to Georgian Bay (Port Severn) and 30,000 Islands Small Boat Passage.
Now SPEND 2-4 WEEKS THERE IN THE 30,000 ISLANDS INSIDE PASSAGE, NOT ON THE TS! Super clear water with bald pink granite islands rising from the depths. Lots of video on UTube. Mighty Wench crew John and Susan (they’ll be at Hontoon again this year) suggested this option and after seeing both we agree 100%.
Or mini-loop via Richelieu canal and St Lawrence Seaway to Montreal (Peterbrownell mentions 18 foot tides against wind, which concerned us) then back to Port Henry marina.
By then it will be early Sept and you can join the Miss river gathering with Tex and then the Austins as they re-do the TN river portion to Knoxville. Ditto Landing marina near Huntsville, AL has free secure rig storage with a transient slip or ramp fee, 24h roving security, a great ramp and entrance to the Chattanooga gorge, a highlight we missed as we had to pull out there (also has lodging on Redstone Arsenal for us). That’s only a day trip there for us, so we could meet you there.
Think about it all, anyway!

Pat.jack,
Thanks for the very helpful tip about not navigating over the ‘large’ waterfalls/dams on the Genesee river.
I just hate when I do that.
With my bifocals I now see the ‘dam’ on the chart.
I found old references to Corn Hill restaurants Tony D’s and Dinosaur BBQ being good.
Peterbrownell, (a former mayor of Burlington per his page) El and Bill and others have raved about the Finch and Chubb Inn and Restaurant at Whitehall in 2006-2010, but now a google search only brings up a tavern. Any comments? We are actually quite happy fixing our meals on the boat.
We'll definitly overnight at Burlington.
I’ll PM as we get closer, would sure like to meet.

“ It’s a great boating day if total damages are less than $1,000, and no one is seriously injured or killed.”

Again, thanks all! The experience and advice of those on this forum have saved us all kinds of trouble and tribulations, from minor to waterfalling, as we explore the continent’s waterways, sharp rocks, and scraped our engines up the walls of some of our nations roughest lock walls (Floyd has the video).

Cheers!
John
 
Colby would bail just because all of Wisconsin is buried under 8 feet of snow and ice and all the roads are closed.
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We better be cleaned up and thawed out by then. Or I will be upset! lol It'll just about take that to keep me away from the Hontoon gathering! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Farmer's Almanac is right on. Warmer with rain!


Colby, summer 2020 is our planned PNW Adventure, at least 6-8 weeks boating, including all of August. Consistent advice from Pat/Patti Anderson and Bob is that if we trailer from FL allow at least 6 weeks boating time there with 12-15 days trailering. We urge you to change your plans to next summer so you can show us around the PNW then, (how selfish) and spend this summer 2019 on the best of The Loop!
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I slid my plans last year for the Inside Passage, and instead did the Friday Harbor gathering and then cruised the Gulf Islands, Desolation Sound and the Broughtons. This year I will be in Alaska on the Inside Passage if I can help it! However, who knows, I might decide to hit the PNW again next year. It'd definitely be more fun in those BC waters with others. It was kind of boring by myself.

Colby
 
Hi John,
One thing I did not see mentioned is that the eastern end of the Eire Canal (Waterford to Oneida Lake) is mostly on the Mohawk River and the towns are usually larger than to the west. The towns have grown up and away from the Canal so for boaters, there is less to see and do. West of the Lake the towns are smaller, are economically hurting and like the $$ brought by boaters. So they do things to get you to stay. So, to use and old line, "Go West! We really enjoyed Seneca Falls, Lyons, Newark (ride your bikes to the Clock Museum), & etc on west. The Oswego canal down to Oswego is also good, but don't cross to Canada without doing the western half of the Eire Canal.

Have you looked at the two Historic Canadian Canals? The Rideau and the Trent-Severn? The Canadians built them to get Voyageur canoes off of the Great Lakes after the war of 1812. Built in the 1830s, they mostly use that era technology with low rise locks and simple facilities. When Penny and I attended a Great Loop Convention wondering if we wanted to do the Great Loop we talked to boaters who had completed the loop. We asked what places they had enjoyed the most. What came up repeatedly was the two Canadian Canals of the whole 5,000 mile loop. The Eire Canal was next, then the Tennessee River. Hudson River got shoulder shrugs.

If I had the time you have available I'd skip Waterford & the low lands, launch near Oneida Lake, go west on the Eire Canal to Buffalo, then the Welland Canal down to Lake Ontario, back east on Lake Ontario past Toronto (good open lake so hit some speed and burn out the carbon from your outboards) to Kingston, up the T-S & return, then the Rideau & return, then cross Lake Ontario to Oswego & back to my launch site. You might work in the 1,000 islands if time permits.

I'm really jealous of your time and wish we could join you. Oh Well!, next lifetime.

Chuck
 
Chuck (Two Bears) makes some good points in his note. If you make your trip to Seneca Lake, you will pass by Seneca Falls on the Cayuga/Seneca portion of the canal. Seneca Falls is a very nice town, with very good dock facilities for an overnight. Lots of History, and a few nice pubs if you are interested in that. Also, Tony D's is a popular restaurant in Corn Hill on the Genesee River. Dinosaur Barbecue is not in Corn Hill, where you'd dock. It would be a bit of walk. If you considered a walk, a great spot is the Genesee Brew House, with a great view of the waterfall you will be avoiding!!

Link to the Brew House:https://www.geneseebeer.com/brewhouse/

The only issue with the brew House is it gets pretty crowded, but so does Dinosaur Barbecue.

The 1,000 Islands was mentioned. You could easily spend a few days there. When our kids were young we vacationed there a few times. It is very scenic, and a great area for boating.

Have fun planning your trip. Good to see you are devoting a bit of time. You have a great boat for the trip.
Regards,
Jack
 
Gulfcoastjohn,

That's going to be one of the best trips ever. The scenery, towns, waterways are beautiful. The hull speeds will let you enjoy everything on your trip and you'll get to meet the nicest people in the world when you visit the towns.

2 comments. First, I think that the Eire Canal is the equal of anything in Europe AND they speak English. A great trip. Second, I had to wait 2 weeks, Judy was back in SoCal awaiting a grandchild. She got to Waterford at 2 am, underway at 6 am.

Boris
 
Boris,

I did indeed mis-read the reason for your pause on your Erie Canal trip (and a very most helpful blog for us):

http://www.dobro-travel.com/9_great_loop_eire.html

thanks for clearing that up, and my apologies for not understanding that your spouse was waiting for a grandchild's birth rather than that your 2 week delay was ALL due to rain and canal flooding at the east Erie canal entrance.

Best wishes and safe travels always and everywhere!

John
 
John, the whole story of why I waited so long at Waterford is a bit convoluted.

First, our oldest daughter, Dorothy, accompanied me from Annapolis to Waterford and left. So I was waiting for Judy to rejoin the boat and it started raining. After a while, they ( the Eire Canal and Waterford people) sent all boats to one of the locks for their (the boats) protection. Except me, because I was singlehanding. I watched the water come up so the dock retainers were almost underwater. The, when the rain had diminished, Judy showed up, having taken a taxi from Albany. The taxi driver had gotten lost several times, playing "Where's Waterford Dock"? So Judy's there on LA time but finally she got to sleep only to be awakened at 9 AM, East Coast time and we started going through the locks.

Since Judy wrote the saga, one could read it in detail and not get the full flavor. Therefore you're exonerated.

End of this discussion on my part.

Boris
 
Two Bears":17ytcsxd said:
go west on the Eire Canal to Buffalo, then the Welland Canal down to Lake Ontario, back east on Lake Ontario past Toronto (good open lake so hit some speed and burn out the carbon from your outboards) to Kingston, up the T-S & return, then the Rideau & return, then cross Lake Ontario to Oswego & back to my launch site. You might work in the 1,000 islands if time permits.
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John or any other brats planning this, feel free to send me a pm would love to meet you. My home port is Port Dover on Lake Erie. We usually make the trip to Port Colborne for Canal Days August 1st weekend. From Buffalo it is about 25 miles across to Port Colborne which is the start of the Welland Canal. You can stay there at the Sugarloaf Marina. Found it kind of funny the first time we stayed there beside a couple that had crossed from Buffalo(25 miles and another country) we were still in the same country but had cruised 53 miles(from Port Dover) 8)

Exiting the Welland Canal into Lake Ontario it would be a VERY long passage to make it to Trenton in a day. There are marinas along the way or some places you could gunkhole in Hamilton Harbor. Turning into Presqu'lle Bay you can use the Murray Canal to the Bay of Quinte. Then to Trenton and the start of the Trent Severn. Coming back you would continue through the Bay of Quinte back into Lake Ontario - keeping in the lee of Amherst Island to the east end of Lake Ontario and Kingston - start of the Rideau Canal. Coming back to Kingston you would enter the St. Lawrence River and into the thousand island area. We have cruised part of the St. Lawrence and stayed at the Gananoqua Marina. Or,,,, if you have lots of time to spare you can exit Lake Ontario - down the St. Lawrence to Montreal then up the Ottawa River to Ottawa - then down the Rideau Canal back to Kingston. A mini loop!

The Trent, Rideau and St. Lawrence are all worthy destinations. Also your Parks Canada Pass is good for all 3 areas.

Any brats planning any of these cruises may be able to twist my arm 8) . Would love the company if I can make it.

Regards,

Rob
 
Hello, first post but my wife and I have always been fans of these hulls and the ventures of their owners. Recently we were doing some cruising in the warmer region of the country and met some fellow C Dory owners that's doing the get together in central Florida right now.

But anyway reading over this thread while lurking over the years on this forum, it brought me to the forum for more information, if I could on some of the inland areas for cruising.

A brief history, way back many moons ago there was an article in a boat us magazine, Aug 2011 that was written by a couple that owned a 22’ C dory. With that boat they had cruised every navigable river that the Corp of Engineers proclaimed to be navigable. It says that they have cruised the Atlantic, Pacific and the Gulf of Mexico in 29 states.

So this leaves us to what we are working towards ourselves. While we are much older than the couple was when they started and we do not own a C Dory ourselves, we do boat in simular ways as most of you guys do on your boats.

So this leads me to ask is there anyone here still planning on doing the canal or even the Kentucky Lakes area this up and coming summer that’s looking for any additional boat to cruise along that may have done those two areas themselves? We are seasoned boaters and have covered waters from the borders of Canada on Lake Champlain to New York, The Mississippi , from Maine to all of the Chesepeake Bay and the ICW and just about all of the Bahamas and the Virgin Islands. So we are not greenhorns and needs any cuddling. But we would enjoy doing some group boating now. We are also open to other areas and almost free to travel on short notice.

Our boat is a custom built composite wooden core liteweight cruiser in 24’, fully self contained and have a range of 40 hours at trawler speeds or 12 hours of on plane at a cruising speed of an easy 22.
 
Welcome to the brats Red Knot. Your boat sounds interesting. Post some pics.

If you have a hankering to do any of the Canadian canals - Trent, Rideau or rivers St. Lawrence, Ottawa, etc. I might be interested depending on timing, etc.

Regards,

Rob
 
Robert H. Wilkinson":2jjaszdv said:
Welcome to the brats Red Knot. Your boat sounds interesting. Post some pics.

If you have a hankering to do any of the Canadian canals - Trent, Rideau or rivers St. Lawrence, Ottawa, etc. I might be interested depending on timing, etc.

Regards,

Rob
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Thanks, will post some later on when I get some time to figure that out here. I probably will not get that far north this year. We have two other ventures on tap, with grandkids to the south. And we deal with hurricane season where we don't go too far that time of year. So a shorter trip inland will probably finish us up for cruising after possibly doing the Erie Canal.
 
Hi Red Knot! and Robert W.
PM sent (Private Message button).
We enjoy buddy cruising, but the Erie Canal adventure will be during hurricane season as we have a family reunion mid Aug. Us renters don't worry much about hurricanes.

Cheers!
John
 
Pardon me if I have missed my answer someone where on the site. But has anyone organized a trip or is planning on doing a trip on the Erie during Aug, mainly the first of Aug? Or anyone doing any cruising on the Kentucky lakes or in and around the rivers in Tenn?
 
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