EPIRB Alternative

T

tpbrady

New member
GlobalStar will start marketing a GPS based locator position reporting service called Spot in November. It is basically a GPS receiver with 20 foot accuracy (probably WAAS) that also has an embedded satellite transmitter that on demand will transmit your position to your wife, son, daughter or whoever by e-mail (you set it up on line in advance) whenever you press the check-in button. It also has a help button (one step below emergency) that will transmit a request for help to a list of people you specify, or in a emergency it has a 911 button to summon rescue forces. In addition there is a real time tracking service available which reports in every 10 minutes and plots the location on Google Earth (sneak this on your friend's boat to see where he is catching fish). When it has successfully transmitted a green LED stays lit for 5 seconds so you have some assurance it went through.

It's supposed to sell for $150, cost $99 per year for the basic unlimited check in, help, and emergency service. The real time tracking is an additional $50 per year. (North American Service) Worldwide terrestrial and coastal waters coverage is also available.

It has no display since it has been optimized to run in standby for up to a year on a set (2) AA lithium batteries. It is waterproof and floats. This is something Garmin et al need to build into a GPS receiver with a display.

Tom
 
SPOT has been discussed in some forums--and I believe here as well. http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... light=spot
The EPIRB system is well proven, having been in existance for over 30 years. It has a record of thousands of rescues, thru official sources. Recently a boat went down, within 5 minutes of the EPRIB's activation, the wife was contacted by SAR center and asked if the boat might have a distress and its location, and in less than 20 minutes a CG Craft was in route.

Shift to a private company which has a history of financial problems, whose service is reported to be poor if non existant (See the posts in The Hull Truth for Globstar vs Iridium). There some "center" is notified of your call, and they have to sort out where you are, plus find the agency which will respond by calling 911? I am very pesimistic. There is no homing device--where the ERPIB has homing capability, as well as continous tracking of the position. Add in that Globalstar has limited coverage world wide (probably not a problem for C Dories)--but the folks fishing 50 miles from my house cannot make contact.

SPOT may be a great idea, but I will not stake my life on it.

We have to have emergency coverage--we carry two personal ERIPB's and willl get an Iridium phone for our "out of cell phone" treks.

Ben Ellison (Panbo) reviewed this on Aug 9th 2007:
http://www.panbo.com/archives/2007/08/s ... eacon.html
 
Bob,

I have always been skeptical of GlobalStar claims as we are on the receiving end of GlobalStar telephone service. However, Spot works in much the same manner as the EPIRB and doesn't use the same technology of the telephone. It sends a very short data packet (probably something like a NMEA sentence along with the ID of the device. The transmission will be very short, less than 2 seconds if not shorter and it will wait for an acceptable satellite signal before it sends. There is a big difference between that and a telephone call. This might actually work.

Tom
 
Posted to the wrong thread a few minutes ago. Should have been posted here....

We recently purchased an ACR ResQfix PLB and I am satisfied that it will provide a good level of safety for use on the boat and for other activities. Stacy is planning a solo cross country bicycle trip and she will take it along as well.

I did come across some thoughts by Doug Ritter on the SPOT product which can be found on his site at http://www.equipped.org/SPOT_ORSummer2007.htm

Jan
C-Change
 
Jan,
Thanks for the link. I do understand that the SPOT goes to the Globalstar data system--but I am not sure of what varification we have of its effeciency---we have plenty of data on the ineffeciency of the voice protocol. If you read Globalstar's web sites, it is glowing with praise of the voice system--and yet if you look at the boating web sites, where people have tried to use Globalstar, service is virtually non exisitant.

I still find the private 911, trying to find an agency to send help disturbing. lets say they call the local Sheriff--and say that they have a satellite signal of a 'distress" call--and give a lat and lon--will that Sheriff mobalize? If it comes from the Government SAR center, I suspect you have a much better chance. Also GEOS offers "SPOT also offers a $7.95 per year option for a GEOS Search and Rescue Benefit ($100,000 worth of benefits) that is essentially insurance to cover rescue in less capable areas of the world. One of GEOS' primary businesses is as a corporate emergency services and travel consultant and supplier and this capability is what is activated and covered by this insurance if necessary. They will arrange rescue via private contractor if necessary." I'd hate to have some one haggling over who is going to come out and find me (incidently $100,000 doesn't go very far for a remote area SAR operation).

The equipt to survive has the same concern I have about a homing device or update of the position. Also there is no way to send text or a message, other than a preprogramed message. That is why I feel better with an Iridium Satellite phone. He also notes that it will not send a distress if there is no good GPS location given by the unit--lets say that you are injured and there is not a good sky view--and no GPS position (some newer chip sets will give position in "shadow or inside"--but of course any satellite system needs a sky view.

IF this proves out, it is certainly a cheaper technology--but when false alarms occur, the system is loaded with lots of these transmitters, and 911 operators become sceptical etc--that may be a down fall in the future.
As for cost, my GPS enabled EPRIB cost $500 and no yearly fee. The battery is good for 10 years--or $50 a year. Being a ham operator, I can easily self test the unit. The SPOT for 10 years would be $1150. I would say that the GPS tracking would be a good feature for some, but we don't need this, and have APRS thru Ham radio if we do want it. Plus we personally need two way communication, in case my wife's mother takes a turn for the worse--so we can get my wife to a place where she get home rapidly.

I'll stick with my opininion until the SPOT has been operational at least a year and we have some good data on how well it works.
 
Bob,

I agree with your thoughts. I would be interested in seeing some real world testing when Doug Ritter gets a hold of one. I was involved in some life raft testing that he did a few years ago and found him to be very thorough and impartial. At this point, I am going to stick with my PLB since the technology is well proven, and does not require a yearly fee. Besides, I already own the unit.

Jan
 
I too purchased the ACR ResQfix PLB. You could say I may be betting my life on it. However, unlike the "Spot" it doesn't float so securely fastening to one's body is a must.
 
ccflyer":5nazo4j0 said:
I too purchased the ACR ResQfix PLB. You could say I may be betting my life on it. However, unlike the "Spot" it doesn't float so securely fastening to one's body is a must.
Click to expand...

On Bob's recommendation, I bought the ACR AquaFix 406 PLB (it floats). But when it came I was somewhat startled by how large it was and now am trying to figure out the best way to attach it to my PFD so that it is out of the way but always accessible. Any ideas, Bob?

Warren
 
Warren, if the unit you purchased is like mine, I believe, while water proof, it only floats if encased in the black neoprene pouch. Then again I haven't tried putting it in a bucket of water.

If it only floats inside the case, I'd suggest the mfg might switch to a color other than black. :thdown

Phil
 
Phil, my ACR unit did not come with a pouch, neoprene or otherwise. The box says it floats. The color is a lime green and royal blue. I suspect it is a different model from yours.

Warren
 
I suspect that we are talking about two different beacons--the newest is the ResQue fix; Model No.: PLB-300--and floats only with a neopreme case.
I have the Older and slightly larger Aqua fix: Model No.: PLB-200/201
--which does not come with a sleeve or case and floats by its self.

You can run a thin strap thru the back of the blue part of the case. I would use dacron or nylon, and it can be stitched to the jacket/harness (We tend to use the SOS suspenders inflatable in rough conditions, the harnes of which lends to this type of securing the EPRIB) with a snap or turn button on the other end. There are also after market or ACR "holsters" for it--and that may be the best answer. All of these have to be held above the water and have the antenna deployed for the transmitter to work properly.

I am not going to trade in my two 201's for the smaller ResQue fix unit--it is only 2 oz less weight and less than a cubic inch or two smaller when you look at all of the dimensions: but despite the neopreme pouch necessity, it is probably a slightly better unit.

I agree Equipt to survive is an excellent site. I probably should visit it more often--I'll book mark it and review it peroidically.
 
It turns out that my 406 actually does have a holster. I mistook it for part of the PLB itself. It is supposed to float with or without the holster. I gather from the instructions that I am supposed to thread the PFD webbing through slots in the back of the holster. It's a PLB-200.

Warren
 
Ben Ellison (Panbo) also noted that the GPS receiver was less sensitative than some other portable units he was testing. He did get 80% reception/tracking from a car, when the SPOT unit was on the dashboard under the windshield. He also noted that if you read the manual, that there is a sequence of the LED's which indicate that the GPS position is NOT being recieved.

I still feel that a 406 mhz, GPS enabled Personal locator beacon is no more expensive, and gives a much better chance of response in an emergency.

There has been one documented response (that I am aware of) of a SPOT distress signal.

I think that if you want your friends and family to track your progress on a trip--that this would be a reasonable way of doing ths--although there are other ways available.
 
I had lunch with Bill & El last month in Denver. Bill was toting a SPOT device around that he said his son had just given him. It might be worth copying a portion of this thread in a more frequently-accessed part of the site to see if Bill has any experiences to report.

Paul Priest
Sequim
 
Here's a little side tale on the Spot device. We took the Spot with us to Greece the past three weeks -- worked great, for the purpose of letting the family know where we were and that all was fine with us.

1. Grandkids belong to a geography club at school -- we sent them a Spot location every time we were at an interesting location (Greek ruin, usually) on our trip. They (and their club) could google earth the exact location, then use google's satellite photo option and zoom down to see the site close up. So the class 'joined' us at the Acropolis, Aphea, Delphi and Olympic stadium -- they then 'wikied' info on the sites and had a great time learning about Greek history.

2. There was a sharp earthquake while we were there -- we sent the family a Spot location and 'We're OK' message, within an hour of the quake -- they knew we were fine and located on a boat off the island of Spetses, so no hazard from ground shaking. Good peace of mind for them.

3. We sent Spot locations from each airport on flight over and return --so they knew where we were and that all was fine. We had 4 flights in succession cancelled at JFK due to winter storm on our return, and finally made it out on the last flight to leave JFK that day -- it came to Denver via Salt Lake and our Spot locations let them know when we left JFK, that we were in Salt Lake, and then at our midnight arrival back in Denver (we should have arrived at 11:00 am that morning).

4. Will this work for us in our travels and cruising? No doubt about it! They will get our 'We're OK' messages and know our location and condition. The locations were excellent, the ease of use superior, and generally a great addition to our (and our family's) lives. We did not test either the 'Help' or '911' capability of the Spot, since this was unnecessary, but have confidence that it will work fine.

Is this a substitute for an EPIRB? No -- Spot is waterproof, but takes a few minutes to send a message. You may not have time to be sure the message is received or if it will be acted upon, in an emergency. VHF Mayday is surely the best -- you talk to a person and know they have your location and problem. (But we have sent Mayday without contact, so that is certainly not foolproof). But it certainly is a most useful device for us, on the water and off. Our kids will know our location (and that we're fine) when we are out of range for phone or aircard. And it doesn't interupt the routine of their lives.
http://findmespot.com/ if you want more info.
 
We appreciate your evaluation of the SPOT device. Missed seeing posts from you the last few weeks... but, we'll look forward to Halcyon Days for the photo essay of your travels.

Welcome home!

Best wishes,
Jim
 
We have been using SPOT now for almost a year and have been very satisfied. No it is not an EPIRB, and yes it does have it's limitations, (no locator beacon). Also, Yes, it has communication features that are not available with the EPIRB, and no we have not tried the 911 or Emergency help buttons even in a test, but the digital signal takes, on the average), 2-3 minutes to go from the button push to the receipt, (tested because we also list our own phone to receive the text message) and it has never failed to respond.

For us, the tracking feature is still a bit of a novelty, but on any water trip, it could be part of the answer to being rescued. Hope I don't ever have to find out the hard way.

Getting toward Christmas this year I would expect some very good deals to show up. SPOT unit typically $150, annual fee $50 - 100, and tracking also $50-100 per year.

And no I don't own stock nor am I a dealer, just trying to help ad another layer of safety to my boating experience.

Harvey
SleepyC
 
We purchased both a SPOT and a personal location beacon, Fast Find, before leaving on our trip to Alaska. We used our SPOT along the way and linked our adventure to our Blog page. We knew, however, that it was not a replacement for an EPIRB. That is why we also purchased the Fast Find.

Besides the amount of time required to send a signal, other differences include that the SPOT requires an annual subscription in the service and Fast Find does not. However, Fast Find requires that you register the unit with NOAA and we must reregister it every two years.

We found SPOT to be a great tool for not only letting family know you are okay, but also for keeping track of your adventures. Now that we are back, we have a record of exactly where we went and when. We used it every day on our trip.
 
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