Electronics

[Mike...]

Hello Everyone,

I am a Nerd - and proud of it.

Having purchased a boat, it's now time to turn my attention to its electronics.

The TomCat is coming with a Raymarine C-70 with a 2KW dome. I 'm gonna want to replace those.

I am thinking about this Garmin system:
5215 Chartplotter
GMR 24 HD Radar Scanner
GPS 17x NMEA 2000 GPS/WAAS Antenna
Airmar Smart NMEA 2000 12 Degree Transducer
XM GDL 30A Weather Data/Audio Receiver
VHF 200 Marine Radio

Any thoughts on this setup?

Also, any suggestions on a manufacturer for quality marine audio components?

Thanks...

mike

 

[Sneaks]

Nice setup.

My only comment is to very carefully remove the present C-70 system and all it's components, package them up and sell them as a package on Ebay with good photos of it in operation of course. It's a great system too.

You're not gaining a whole lot in features, then again as a fellow unapologetic Nerd who swapped out a Furuno radar and Lowrance chart plotter for a C-80 system, I can relate. If I had "do-overs" I would go Lowrance. The one feature of Lowrance systems that I sorely missed is the ability to record the sonar scan and track, and go home to re-create the trip. One can't watch the bottom 100% of the time while out cruising or even a dedicated fishing trip. Going back and reviewing can uncover honey holes you can go back to on a subsequent trips and the tracks are far more meaningful than the Raymarine. Unfortunately in 2005 Lowrance didn't offer a radar and neither did Garmin.

OBTW, congratulations on joining the C-Dory family. Tomcats are cool. Ask the Scoobies for an album and show us your new prize....

Don

 

[thataway]

Why take the boat with a Raymarine if you want Garmin? You will take a large economic hit trying to sell the Raymarine used--even if it is "new". It is a used unit.

Not at thing wrong with the C 70. I would suggest that you use it for a year or so, and then if you feel that you need the larger screen etc--go for what is the latest technology available, because I guarantee you it will change every year.

Garmin is the easiest to use. DS not the best. Radar I have not used, but hear good reports about.

How does this large screen size fit on the console of the Tom cat? I have two chart plotters on the dash(each about 7") and separate 7" radar overhead.

I prefer Icom or Standard Horizon radios. Garmin is not know for their radios...but I am sure it will work.

You are looking at close to $8,000 in electronics upgrads. Do you really need this?

I prefer two chart plotters, since I can put one one small scale and the other on large scale. With my 7" radar, it is still larger than the radar on a 1/4 screen you would have with the Garmin 5215.

Two radios are very nice--one to moniter 16 the other working channels--such as tugs, harbors, friends, etc.

Your $$--but if you are financing, you will be paying fo rmany years for equiptment which is upgarded very regularly....but I am one of those guys who crossed oceans with only a sextant--so although the latest gadgets are nice, I know that they are not essential.

 

[Mike...]

Hi Dr. Bob,

Do you really need this?

Need?

Of course not.

The Raymarine is already installed on the TomCat. Perhaps the dealer would remove it and lower the price a bit, but I would not likely do any better than if I sold it on ebay as Don suggested.

Here's what is driving me toward the Garmin: HD radar, XM weather, and to a lesser extent, XM radio.

As always, though, you raise good points.

I'll definitely check to see how the display size works out in the TomCat before I buy the Garmin. I have to say, though, two plotters is an interesting idea...

I believe the radar can be overlaid on the chart. If not, then I do have to rethink the plan as a 1/4 screen radar view would not be ideal.

Two radios would be nice, though the Ch16 could simply be a receiver. I'll have to see if I can find such a thing.

You're not gaining a whole lot in features, then again as a fellow unapologetic Nerd who swapped out a Furuno radar and Lowrance chart plotter for a C-80 system, I can relate.

Hi there Don,

Good to know there are other nerds here.

That Lowrance record-and-download feature is nice. I'll look at their stuff. I am pretty hooked on the Garmin plan, though, for the reasons noted above.

Thanks for the Congrats. I have to say that this forum totally got me hooked on C-Dory boats and the TomCat in particular. For the longest time, though, I resisted the urge to spend the bucks for the TomCat.

Oh well.....



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Thanks...

mike

 

[hardee]

Mike, the Raymarine will overlay the radar onto the chartplotter. I use it that way all the time. Don't know about the other systems, but the Garmin is pretty user friendly. Good luck and Congrats on the new TC. Hope it comes with a BIG RED BOW.

Merry Christmas

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[JamesTXSD]

Hi Mike,

Since you asked here, I'll toss in another free opinion. First let me ask a question: have you used any of these electronics (radar, chartplotter, depth sounder, VHF radios). My reason for asking is to find out if you have a real preference towards the selection you mentioned or if that is a system that was recommended to you?

I have to agree with Dr. Bob about running the boat the way it is for a while. Learn how to use the electronics you have, then check out other systems as your learning curve flattens out. You may find that the C-70 will do all you ask of it. I've had Garmin units on other boats and really like the Raymarine set-up we have on Wild Blue. As the touch screens become the "must have" deal, I won't be in any hurry to dump what works.

Regarding the VHF radio: many radios allow you to monitor 2 or 3 frequencies. We have one fixed mount radio that monitors 3 frequencies and keep two hand-held radios onboard (back-up and the ability to talk between the boat and the dinghy).

As you get more time in the boat, you may decide on not only different electronics, but also different placement. Time in the boat will tell.

Good luck and congratulations on the new boat.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

 

[rogerbum]

I have to agree with the sage comments above about giving the current electronics a go first and trading out later. I've used both Garmin and Raymarine electronics and I will say that the user interface on the Garmin is heads and tails above the Raymarine. However, the Garmin depth sounder and radar are generally not rated as well as Raymarine or Lowrance or Furuno.

As far as XM weather goes - how far off shore do you intend to go and how often? IMHO, internet weather sources on a computer are as good and far less expensive if you have access to the net (which is doable in most places that you can get wireless. If it were me, I'd rather leave the Raymarine on board and invest in a good laptop/wireless card to cover the weather. Add a GPS puck and you've got a backup plotter. With wireless internet, you've also got the radio covered as you can get that over the net too. If you already subscribe to XM (say in your car), you can even listen to all the XM channels over the net. Out here in the puget sound and in many locations off the west coast, I get good cel phone service (Verizon). I even get signal 20 miles off shore of both Neah Bay and Westport.

 

[Mike...]

Thanks guys for the posts. I appreciate the encouragement to go with what I have for now. Maybe you are right. But here was my thinking:

I have used the C70 before. I find the screen just too dang small for my poor eyesight. So, a bigger screen really is a must. Also, I find the Raymarine user interface to be a bit obtuse.

I admit that I have a fondness for Garmin. I've owned their products for years and years. I have a handheld gps that I bought 10+ years ago. It has taken many a serious beating, yet works just as well as the day I bought it.

I have briefly checked out out the 5215 at a boat show. All I could think of as I walked away was: Wow! However, I realize that boat show demo <> real-world experience. So, I will check it out further before whipping out the credit card.

Does it have to be a 5215? Maybe not. Dr. Bob's two plotter idea has me thinking.

On the radar, I have been on a boat with the Garmin 24 HD, and the detail was amazing. I could see the buoys on the crab traps. I don't remember the Raymarine to be anywhere close to that detailed. Of course, I haven't seen any rating comparisons on Garmin vs Raymarine vs Lowrance, etc. I'll look around for some. Got any ideas?

Now, being the nerd that I am, I had pondered the laptop thing. But, I decided it would be a bit unwieldy in the cabin, and too prone to hitting the deck. :shock: Besides, I like nice, neat, clean installation.

Again, thanks for the suggestions. You do have me thinking.

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Thanks...

mike

 

[Mike...]

I prefer Icom or Standard Horizon radios.

Dr. Bob, I checked out the Icom radios and I like them.

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Thanks...

mike

 

[Dene]

I have to agree with the sage comments above about giving the current electronics a go first and trading out later. I've used both Garmin and Raymarine electronics and I will say that the user interface on the Garmin is heads and tails above the Raymarine. However, the Garmin depth sounder and radar are generally not rated as well as Raymarine or Lowrance or Furuno.

As far as XM weather goes - how far off shore do you intend to go and how often? IMHO, internet weather sources on a computer are as good and far less expensive if you have access to the net (which is doable in most places that you can get wireless. If it were me, I'd rather leave the Raymarine on board and invest in a good laptop/wireless card to cover the weather. Add a GPS puck and you've got a backup plotter. With wireless internet, you've also got the radio covered as you can get that over the net too. If you already subscribe to XM (say in your car), you can even listen to all the XM channels over the net. Out here in the puget sound and in many locations off the west coast, I get good cel phone service (Verizon). I even get signal 20 miles off shore of both Neah Bay and Westport.

Agree wholehearted, although I suspect the Garmin is fine for basic radar. I have the Furuno radar but it's chartplotter is weak. Garmin is the best I've seen and used.

I would add that a Sprint aircard has gps and it works seamlessly with chartplotter programs, thus eliminating a need for a puck (although one should have it as a backup). Via the internet, weather info. is available through noaa.org., AIS through marinetraffic.com, and radio through slacker.com. Also, you can put a laptop chartplotter in the V-berth with a line of sight to the helm. That's what I do on my 22 footer.

Finally....congrats on your choice of the CD Tomcat. It wouldn't surprise me if it's your first and last boat. I'd love to own one.

-Greg

 

[cbull]

i will buy if you replace. let me know

 

[BRAZO]

I am a Nerd - and proud of it.

If you really want to be a Nerd -- go with

Nobeltec’s InSight Radar 2
Nobeltec's Max Pro software
C-Map Max Pro charts
Nobeltec InSight Sounder
Raymarine S1000 Autopilot
Any GPS unit

All hooked into a laptop (via USB hub) with a Verizon AirCard for all the Weather information that you would ever need via the Internet.

For AIS, use www.marinetraffic.com

Put the laptop down in the V-Berth hooked to a 16" Acer WideScreen. Control the laptop mouse and keyboard via a Logictech Bluetooth keypad/keyboard. When you get tired of the Acer 16" -- replace it with the latest and greatest and keep all the other equipment in place.

Then when the next and latest piece of equipment comes on to the market -- buy it and hook it into the laptop.

Disclaimer: I've been a tech geek for the last 25 years and have made my living doing so.

Good luck...

 

[Mike...]

Well now. This is interesting. Multiple recommendations to use a laptop, to which I have been reluctant to consider. Maybe I need to rethink that position.

I think I'll start a new thread to explore a pc-based option a bit and see where that leads. I have lots of questions and concerns explore in that thread. Let's see how it goes.

Thanks to all for the replies. You certainly do have me thinking.

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mike

 

[thataway]

Consider how easy the touch screen is to use in a wildly moving boat at speed. Some folks have not found it that easy.

The Garmin Radar has a good reputation. But remember than any radar has to be tuned manually to get the best picture.

I personally don't like overlay--but many us it, especially those who are less experienced (I have been using radar over 30 years, so I do a mental overlay.

I cannot comment on your eyesight, but generally a 5" screen will be satisfactory, as close as it is. I prefer 7" screens.

There is a real reason for two radios--and that is if you are scanning, you may well miss a urgent or distress can on channel 16. I have previously related where I missed a security call, where I transmitted on one frequency, as the tug was transmitting on the other, and visa versa. So we both had made the proper calls, but because of using only one radio had missed that call. Also in the PNW, you want to be on the frequency with the gill netters when running where they are closely packed.

Weather--Some places it may be of value--although I don't even think so in the Gulf of Mexico--where we do have very rapidly developing squalls. We have cruised in the Chesapeake over 2 years and it may be nice there, but not essential.

Laptops--I know that some use and like them. I have been using computers on boats since 1982, but do not feel that it is a wise choice for a C Dory--you want the screen to be just below your visual horizon--and not have to look down, plus using a dedicated chart plotter etc is much easier and user friendly--I did use a lap top for 3 years on a 42 foot trawler--so I have several thousands of miles experience using that modality.

Just one person's opinion.

 

[Mike...]

Dr. Bob, I love your posts. They are always helpful.

Touchscreens - I had not thought of that! Good point. Maybe a trackball is in order. Hoping that I would seldom need to use a keyboard.

Mental overlay - This is a good point. I don't actually know if I will prefer the radar overlay. It just seems logical to me. Time will tell.

Weather - Most of our time will be on the Chesapeake, where, as you know, stoms can blow up fast. I have been out there one of those times and it was quite the rough ride getting through it. That same storm was somehow understated in the broadcasted weather report. I know it's expensive, but I really want to know when there's-a-stom-a-coming.

Two radios - Makes sense.

Thanks again...

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Mike

 

[Adeline]

Also, any suggestions on a manufacturer for quality marine audio components?

You're getting some great opinions on the nav stuff so I'll offer my thoughts on audio. (1) Go with automotive components. (2) Select a powerful head unit (or add an amp).(3) Look past the CD Drive and find one with USB connectivity.
I don't believe that "marine audio" is required on an enclosed cabin boat. Your dollars will go much further if you look at automotive stereo components. I installed this a couple years ago and it was (and is) a good approach. I recently replaced the head unit with this because the old one balked at 1000 songs on a thumb drive. Now I plug my 320 GB Portable Hard Disk Drive into the USB port and enjoy up to 450 cds worth of music.

 

[Matt Gurnsey]

The Garmin Radar has a good reputation. But remember than any radar has to be tuned manually to get the best picture.

As someone who was in the electronics side of the industry, I had not run a boat with Garmin radar until last year. The image was awful in comparison to other products, and the kicker for me is that the radar was not adjustable to improve the image.

I would also look at Furuno NAVnet 3D- perfect for geeks, UHD Radar, an upgrade over their previous best in the industry radar they had.

The NMEA 200 transducer will not give you a bottom image, only a numerical depth indication. As long as that is all you want, then it will work fine.

 

[starcrafttom]

A different point of view on a few things. I have the c-80 and really love it, but it’s a little slow on the redraw. It’s a real pain if you are fishing and making a lot of turns. The Garmin is better for fishing than but not as nice as a Lawrence. I LOVE radar over lay because I don't know as much about radar as some of these old navy guys. So I like it to be overlaid so I will know what is a buoy, and what is not. You can always run the radar as a separate screen from the map, which is a great reason for a larger screen.

As for the whole lap top thing. I see it as a hard way to make your life easier. I mean after you spend the money on a lap top and a mount and a puck and all the wires and then the whole thing is bouncing around on the dash or the mount. I would take a purpose built device any day. I mean the last thing I want to do while driving the boat is wait for windows to open or the net to function. Now lap top at anchor for planning purposes is a great tool. And I like to use mine as a entertainment system on the boat, DVD player and lots of stored music.

a word on back up screens and multiply displays. I think that as a backup plan it sucks. If you are going to have a problem most likely it will be a failure of power and you will lose all screens. Your back up should be a on a separate power supply or no power at all. My back up is a handle held gps, a map and my old marine compass. a back up should get to a safe harbor and no further. It should not give you false hope of continuing on without a full functioning system. just my three cents

Now for a little pet pev on radios. I HATE radios with volume controls that do not have "clicks" in them. I can never get the volume set right in rough water. The knob moves to much without the clicks or stops, Drives me crazy

 

[Mike...]

Now for a little pet pev on radios. I HATE radios with volume controls that do not have "clicks" in them. I can never get the volume set right in rough water.

Ah. There's an idea that never would have occurred to me.

Makes total sense. I am adding that to my list. Thanks!

I agree on the backup thing. My electronic backups will all be battery powered and hand-held. Not sure how to deal with the fresh battery issue yet. Still pondering.

And I'll carry paper charts, and an analog compass as well.

But I am really hoping Dr. Bob will teach me how to use a sextant. That would be very cool.

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mike

 

[Dene]

Now for a little pet pev on radios. I HATE radios with volume controls that do not have "clicks" in them. I can never get the volume set right in rough water.

Ah. There's an idea that never would have occurred to me.

Makes total sense. I am adding that to my list. Thanks!

I agree on the backup thing. My electronic backups will all be battery powered and hand-held. Not sure how to deal with the fresh battery issue yet. Still pondering.

And I'll carry paper charts, and an analog compass as well.

But I am really hoping Dr. Bob will teach me how to use a sextant. That would be very cool.



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mike

Better yet. Contact your local Coast Guard Auxilliary flotilla and attend a Boaters Skills and Seamanship class. You'll learn all about chartwork plus a whole lot of other important things. I just finished the course and it was excellent.

-Greg