Dry Suit vs. Wet Suit vs. Survival Suit

Foggy":2o7bdrso said:
Warm dry tooties (feet) will do you no good if you happen to enter head first.

I know of no gear worn above the surface that protects your head in case of an
unexpected cold water immersion face first. Recall the involuntary inhale gasp
reflex...

Aye.
Click to expand...

Think tight fit, fleece balaclava maybe silk lined. (Yes, for those of use who are more chronologically experienced, there is WOOL, but polyfleece is actually better, (bases on post wet insulative properties.) I would think neoprene, though not usually an above surface dressing item, would also do quite well.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

1_10_2012_from_Canon_961.highlight.jpg
 
Harvey's suggestion of a tight fitting fleece balaclava is a good one. I use one from Grundens quite a bit. There are some WindStopper ones that are good, also.

Many thanks to Peter for the info on LevelSix. New beans to me. If NRS sells it, NRS stands behind it. I would buy through NRS if possible, in the event I needed to exchange something ... shipping stuff across the border can be a hassle.

Couple links to the hats. Third link is a WindStopper version ... tighter weave:

http://www.go2marine.com/product/327539 ... -gage.html

http://www.go2marine.com/product/395191 ... -hats.html

https://www.outdoorresearch.com/us/en/m ... 5460001007
 
Hi Colby, we have the Gumby Suits (given to us in the early 90’s by our sons who were in the Coast Guard) & have taken them with us to Alaska, but not anymore. They are not easy to get on, weigh to much, take up to much space on a small boat & make one completely non maneuverable when worn.

Our Mokai motorized kayak was not tippy & neither are the inflatables we have used in the past & have now. We like to easily & with little time involved access what ever dingy we use to either explore or just go to shore from the boat & are quite willing to give up some of the safety provided by more advanced or expensive gear that is less easy to don. When the conditions are a little more extreme or I’m off on extended time periods by myself, I usually wear my Mustang flotation jacket & bibs & wear Chota neoprene boots. On short trips fleece & goretex tops & bottoms with hip boots or the Chota or if it’s a really heavy rain a light rubber 3/4 coat with goretex pants. I’ve found human nature to be such, me included, that if worn safety clothing & flotation isn’t comfortable, simple to use, meaning quick & easy to put on, then often it will not be, especially on quick short duration or at least at the start, planned short trips.

The more time I’ve spent in SE Alaska, the much less concerned we’ve become about ever having to abandon the C-Dory & if the small chance of having that happen did occur, I think our Mustang gear, which is quick to get on & adequate for an emergency if having to go to our now 13 foot Kaboat dingy.

I think there’s a huge difference between outfitting for extended exploring cold water areas in a kayak & using a fairly stable inflatable kayak for short trips to shore or around protected bays. The dry suit top sounds like a good option to me if it is as easy to take off & on as a flotation Mustang jacket & hard to beat comfortable hip boots for going to shore in much of Alaska terrain. Just under the knee rubber or neoprene boots are even better, until the water comes in over the top. With the type of cold water boating we do & I think your are planning. A wet suit is totally out as is anything that requires the removal of top outer layer to pee or whatever. For a quick dunk from your Hobie or Sea Eagle either the dry top with waders or a Mustang jacket good. For quick trips to shore fleece & Goretec type with life jacket fine. If I was now planning on heading to Alaska by myself, I wouldn’t change clothing or equipment other then no Gumby.

Jay
 
Colby,

I made another run at those Freefall Dry Pants. I believe they are not a double tunnel garment. You might double check this. My error, earlier. NRS suggests the closure with a double tunnel drytop is a no-leak closure. Maybe. You might call NRS and ask.

The other consideration is lack af a relief zipper.. More of a convenience issue than anything else. Relief zippers are another possible source for water entry, so I do not think they are worthwhile in dry pants. Because a dry top separates easily from the dry pants, a relief zipper is not as important as it is on a dry SUIT, where disencumbering yourself is a real production.
 
One other option is the Ocean Rodeo drysuits built for marine. Their head office is right down the street from me and they are certified by RCMSAR (Coast Guard Auxilary).

They have a jacket that opens so it can be worn inside in warmer temperatures then zipped up/pull up when working outside.

I've worked on boats with survival suits buried near engine room which is not helpful in an emergency. I've been in sticky situations in a wetsuit off the west coast of BC and been thankful I was wearing it pre-emergency.

The only survival gear worth buying is what I'll wear and I would definitely wear an Ignite Drysuit if I owned one. I've used one for 30 minutes in the water off Tofino BC and was pretty happy and dry.

https://oceanrodeo.com/drywear/marine-drysuits/
 
Interesting in my own thoughts. Started out thinking survival in case of sinking. But as is many times the case, transitioning in thoughts to something more useful in normal activities as well.

Jay, I'm learning a lot more than I bargained for. I searched for that Mustang stuff you mentioned, and it appears that these are flotation items, but are not water proof? That is, water will still get in, but they are somewhat insulated and provide flotation?

Price wise, it looks like we're still talking around $500 or so for a set. The suit KAELC linked to was out of my desired range, at $1000. I haven't linked to the other stuff yet.

I'm beginning to think I need to just immerse myself in some paddling or surfing shop somewhere to see what all this different stuff is, how it fits and wears, etc.

I still continue to come back to something like the fabric waders (NRS Freefall pants? Other like bottoms?) in conjunction with a dry top. Perhaps it won't keep me completely dry in an immersion, but I can see a lot of multi purpose uses, and staying dry if not immersed.

Just so many various options out there, but I really think I've just narrowed it down to wanting something I can step in the water and stay dry (if I'm not fully immersed) and something that can be "layered" while also providing some sealing off from full water intrusion in a short immersion. And within reasonable cost for occasional use.
 
Couple of other pieces of gear we used: Old style Mustang Float Coat, with a beaver tail...I used it some in high latitudes, but it was not fully water proof, and I would sweat under the layers of closed cell foam. It was too hot many times in AK. The newer suits seem to use breathable (Gortex and similar) material--and may not be as uncomfortable.

We both had fitted closed cell foam bests, which were made specifically for us by North sports (Division of North Sails). They gave warmth, but didn't seem to be as much of a "sweat" producer. we often wore them to protect our ribs, as well as a being a life jacket. We still have these and use them often on the C Dory in colder weather.

Our boots were about 18" high, and it was rare we got water in them--but did on some occasions. Just dumped it out--and always had at least one pair of extra wool sox in a dry bag. The boots were easy to slip off when on the beach or in the boat--and the ease of getting them off is important. We had some other 24" boots, with a draw string at the top--and rarely used them.
 
Yes Colby, the Mustang jacket & bibs will protect from rain & slow the water down from reaching the body if dunked, but definitely will not stop it. Basically good for a quick dunk & flotation, while getting yourself out of the cold water along with very comfortable to wear when it’s in the 40’s & 50’s or colder & cloudy, foggy or rainy weather. Better then fleece & other rain gear if dunked, but no way comparable to a dry suit. In my passed explorations on the Mokai a dry suit in some places would have been a better choice except for ease of use. I got the Mustang tops & bottoms for Jo-Lee & I, when we were doing cold water lakes & rivers in our RIB before the C-Dory & didn’t think the risk after going to the C-Dory & Mokai big enough to justify the costly dry suits. I personally don’t think a dry suit for what Jo-Lee & I do now worth the cost & doubt if it would be worth it to you either, but only you can determine that. At this point if I didn’t have the Mustang combos, I would feel comfortable using just rain gear with fleece type material layered under & like Bob said, 18 inch boots. On our last Alaska trip, I used only the 18 inch Chota, though we had the hip boots aboard. To save space we’re considering leaving them behind next trip. When exploring with the Mokai, the swift rivers with lots of down trees in them, I would only use the Chota boots as the hip waters or waist high would have been way to dangerous to use for the reasons others have addressed. For the same reason, we did not use hip waders in the past when exploring larger lakes & rivers on the RIB & haven’t on the ocean recently, except when just going to shore or exploring the heads of smaller protected bays.

The main reason, I waited so long to post on this thread is my lack of experience with regular kayaks leaving me not knowing how stable your Hobie or Sea Eagle are. Your use & their stability may justify the cost of a dry suit or at least a top as others have suggested. You should & no doubt do realize all who are responding on this thread, have different levels of risk assessment, that will determine what they think justifies the cost of the equipment, thought necessary for your proposed use.

Jay
 
Thanks Jay. The two inflatable Kayaks I have seem relatively stable. That's coming from my inexperienced opinion with limited Kayaking experience. But the two Kayaks we have, the Sea Eagle Explorer 300x and the Hobie Mirage i11 feel a lot more stable to me than a rented Kayak I was in at Nicolet Bay in Door County. Or a cheaper inflatable Kayak I believe called the Challenger II (probably more of a pool toy...). The Explorer 300x is rated for white water, so with an experienced person, it's probably quite stable. In any case, my use of them, (other than emergency flotation in a sinking...) would be in very protected waters. Or if not protected, at least relatively calm. Probably the only time I would become immersed from the Kayaks is stepping on or off of them at the boat or beach. As I learn about all this stuff, I'm seeing more practicality in a combination of stuff, rather than a dry or wet suit. Yes it takes me away from my original intent of cold water survival in a sinking, but I think I've gotten past that matter of risk. Colby
 
This cold water stuff is really serious.

Even the fish can succumb.

"Two sharks were found stranded off of the Massachusetts coast Wednesday. The
Atlantic White Shark Conservancy said they likely died because of "cold shock."
The group collected organs and tissue samples for examination, "once they thaw."

Post by atlanticwhiteshark."

Aye.
Thought I've heard of everything...
 
Colby,

There are guys and then there are GUYS.

First, he's 37. Thirty seven speaks for itself.

Next, note he's very hairy. The heavy hair, well, if there's
enough in the right places, it's just more insulation.

For me, I don't want to compare myself to this GUY or do
what he does.

Aye.
Grandpa used to say, "Each man is his own island."
 
Cold water survival suits are unpleasant to wear for extended time. Often they leak and dextarity is greatly reduced with the glove configuration. They are however the best thing to bob around in cold water other than a functional boat. For purposely getting into the water I'd go dry suit.

The dirty secret about cold water survival suits is that they work for about 15min before you start to get really cold. To survive you need to get out of the water. Some years ago doing an ice rescue drill it was clear that this is true. Dry suits with the heavy foam insulation "Viking" really work well but I only used them ice diving (a stupid idea in reflection) and don't know how well they would work in a kayak.

Lots of recent intovation on the subject. Sounds like a fun trip.
 
Im 36 years old and an avid runner (decent swimmer too). Im not getting in the water in the colder climates during winter.

I did a charity polar plunge a few years ago with my ex girlfriend. Never again! That goes for the girl too. Lol
 
If you do go with an anti-exposure work suit like I linked to in a prior post, watch Craigslist and Goodwill. I got my Stearns, similar to the one in the link, shipped from the Goodwill in Bellingham. These are often purchased by crew members on fishing vessels and not worn. When the season is over, they sell cheap. I got mine for $85 and it still had the original tags on it. I used it to replace one I bought in about 1985 that had the floatation (Ensolite) starting to crumble.

My biggest problem with wet suits was that, if they aren't custom, there is someplace that doesn't fit right and allows too much water in. The guy surfing in the ice looks like he has an off-the-rack baggy suit on! I always had problems with a big pocket right in the small of my back. Turns out that I didn't have a big enough belly to get rid of that extra material. Now that I have a bigger belly, I tend to roll on the beach like a walrus trying to get in, or worse, get out. A second person really helps.

My use of farmer johns was whitewater kayaking, often in spring runoff (snow melt). I cases of a "wet exit," it was the best outfit for catching the kayak, or getting to shore and running down the river bank to catch up with the kayak. Maneuverability was very important and time in the water was usually only a few minutes or less. I also dove using a wetsuit, so I've been in Puget Sound water for over an hour, but that was back when I was bulletproof.

Mark
 
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