Dry Suit vs. Wet Suit vs. Survival Suit

Colby,

Near as I can figure, these links show the best selections of breathable dry tops, a Farmer Bill wet suit, and a fabric-based wader. Pick and choose. If you wait for these items or the equivalents to come on sale, you can do better pricewise. Or, acquire used gear by making your needs known on a paddling forum.

FarmerBill Wet Suit:   https://www.nrs.com/product/2219/nrs-farmer-bill-wetsuit

Flux Dry Top:  https://www.nrs.com/product/22515.04/nrs-mens-flux-drytop

Level6 Dry Top:   https://www.nrs.com/product/23153.02/level-six-duke-drytop

Cabelas Fabric Wader Breatheable:   http://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS-PREMIUM-STFT-WADER-STOUT/2421169.uts

NRS is a standup vendor, as is Cabela's. These sources are well known for their reputation. I do not know the reputation of the dry suit manufacturer in your link. Query paddlers on a paddling forum such as West Coast Paddle about it.

Good luck on your search.
 
We are looking at kiteboarding drysuits for the same reasons. Yes they are expensive. I like the multitasking design of these suits, check them out.
 
Considering a wet suit might be worthwhile. Excel 5mm titanium with a hood would be a good choice for survival. There’s a huge market for surfing wetsuits and the technology is impressive and is far ahead of these other choices. Might be a less expensive and a better alternative than a dry suit. Surfers use and abuse these in pretty tough and cold conditions. A dry suit doesn’t seem as much of a working piece of gear but as a long time cold water surfer I’m probably biased.... and definitely a little ignorant to drysuits/fleece and any reason a person would want to wear that much bulk in the water. Good luck with whatever you choose and merry Christmas!!
 
Arm chairing what may save your life... Interesting.

Please realize if it's not comfortable, you won't don it a second time.
Agree w/above.

Aye.
 
Merry Christmas all, and thanks for all the experienced comments.

In reality, I guess as I work thru all this, I'm really looking more for protection from minimum immersion time in cold water. And I'm not looking at any major Kayaking, but rather just as a way to get from anchorage to shore, or to get some exercise and fun within view of the boat. (Or staying within protected waters.) Initially my thoughts were more as survival if the boat sunk or I ended up in the water for some time, in which case the "Gumby" suit is probably the best choice. However, what are the chances of that happening, and if it did, what are the chances I'd already have the suit on?

I suspect the best of my two kayaks to take on a SE Alaska excursion would be my wife's Sea Eagle Explorer 300x. Which in a dire emergency of actually sinking, would probably provide an emergency life raft of sorts.

In continuing to give this all a lot of thought, and doing a lot of reading, just seems like maybe the fabric waders with a dry top would make more sense. Something that would keep me relatively dry from a spill in the cold water; keeping dry in disembarking from the beached boat or kayak; something easy to put on or remove, over warmer clothes, etc. Guess I'm looking at more usability in comfort for boating in cold water, limited kayaking in protected water, and yet protection from minimum immersion time in cold water. Colby
 
The problem with all types of waders in an overboard situation is that they tend to fill up with water. They burp out all the air and have no flotation, then when you try to climb out, you may find that you have 150# of water in pants that look like a water balloon. I've worn them sometimes when fishing from a boat (they are sometimes called "guide" pants) and they are nice on a sloppy, bloody deck, but I always have on a fanny pack type of inflatable cinched down tight at the waist.

I had never heard of Neoprene "Farmer Bill." They seem to be the same as my ancient and still serviceable NRS "Farmer Johns." Here is the same style with a useful improvement, a two way zipper. https://www.amazon.com/Mens-Farm-John-F ... th=1&psc=1 That isn't me in the picture.

I never had much luck with the "breathable" dry tops. They didn't breath enough to cover the extra cost. And since they are often wet when in use, they can't breath as nice as they do at the store. I just searched Amazon and didn't come up with any cheap non-breathable ones. Back in the day, we made our own just like shown in my dry pants photo section. Iron two halves together. Neoprene "replacement" neck and wrist gaskets were available and we used those, sewn and glued on. Usually not pretty, but a functional dry top for $40.

I can't think of any combo that would work for both a wet paddle and a long hike on shore. A change of clothing in a dry bag seems like the best way to go. Plus, it's a convenient time for nature to call.

Mark
 
We do short hikes regularly in our "breathable" wader/drytop and drysuit gear. I have to note that these are normally less than 2 miles and nearly always in cold/wet weather and that helps a great deal.

When we have paddled to longer shore excursion locations and climbed peaks or hiked long distance, we do change clothes and shoes for those longer trips onshore.

We prefer the waist length fabric waders for the easier restroom access over the suspender type.

The waterproof breathable tops I have used over the years have breathed pretty well in the cooler conditions I use them in. If its warm, your wet.

Greg
 
Colby wrote: I'm continuing to give this all a lot of thought, and doing a lot of reading, just seems like maybe the fabric waders with a dry top would make more sense. Something that would keep me relatively dry from a spill in the cold water; keeping dry in disembarking from the beached boat or kayak; something easy to put on or remove, over warmer clothes, etc. Guess I'm looking at more usability in comfort for boating in cold water, limited kayaking in protected water, and yet protection from minimum immersion time in cold water.

Sounds like you are getting there.

Recent posts have brought up all the concerns I could think of, with Marco's caution about waist waders taking on a lot of water during a swim being the most significant. A couple have mentioned the limited ability of "breathable" fabrics such as Goretex to vent water vapor, especially when wearing a PFD and when the rain is really coming down, if you are active.

Goretex works best when there is nothing over it, the wearer is moving about eniugh to maintain a warm layer of (moist) air around your body, and the ambient air is much cooler. That's why skiers and runners like it. OTOH, backpackers and boaters/paddlers both have substantial areas of the torso covered, greatly reducing the garment area through which moist air can pass.

Over several decades of hiking, climbing and XC skiing, I hardly ever used Goretex with much success, in the wet climate of the OR/WA Cascades. However, Goretex users who ski the drier air of the Rockies are much happier with it.

As a paddler/boater, coastal OR/WA/BC, I found that I got wet underneath it while wearing a FOAM-based PFD, not an inflatable PFD, while paddling but not while boating, because of the higher sweat output during heavy exercise. Ashore, dry suit days, I kept it on while making camp, etc. sans PFD, and by the time tent, tarp, etc. were set up, my fleece layers had minimal moisture.

In your case, Colby, unless you intend longer hikes ashore, after paddling your kayak to land, I do not see Goretex as important. You will be about as wet underneath whether using a nonbreathable garment or a Goretex one. Only if you move about, sans pack/PFD, for a while, ashore, will you be able to blow off condensation. Back aboard your C-Dory, if you keep moving, the Goretex will vent moisture. But, once aboard, you can swap out the wet fleece and change into dry insulation, making it moot whether you had been wearing a Goretex or a nonbreathable outer layer.
 
The one concern I have, and am hearing, is how dry would a fabric wader with a dry top keep me during an unintended short term cold water immersion? And any cold water weighing me down from inside is not going to be a good thing... From what I was looking at online, it seemed like there was a way to seal the dry top to the fabric waders. Some sort of extra band on one or the other then rolled up with the other. Perhaps this is something special on that particular brand. I think if I were planning on any length of time hikes when I got to shore, the "outer ware" would come off before I went on my merry way. Currently, when I launch my boat early or late in the season when things are getting a bit chilly, I use regular chest waders. But they are heavy and have no kind of sealing capability around the top of them.
Ok, just found what I was looking at again. They are NRS stuff, the "FreeFall Dry Pants:
https://www.nrs.com/product/22520.02/nrs-freefall-dry-pants

and a top like:
https://www.nrs.com/product/23153.02/level-six-duke-drytop

Price wise, it's not saving me any money from some inexpensive dry suits I can find online, but when I think about what I would like, what my use would be, this seems like a good combination that would satisfy what I want.

Perhaps I'm missing something in all this with several of you suggesting the Farmer Johns/Bills, which I think are basically wetsuits. But seems to me like those would not be something I could easily remove when I got to shore if I wanted to hike some, and would still need to take a change of clothes with me to change into. Whereas the waders (like the Freefall pants above) and dry top would be worn on top of other clothes and just removed if too warm or if I were hiking far. This is a combination I could also put on if I got into rough water and had any concern for cold water immersion of short duration. Or maybe I'm expecting more dryness out of the waders/dry top combination during an immersion than what they provide. Just more thinking out loud... Colby
 
I've had the same dilemma, and have experience diving with dry suits and wet suits. Dry suits need compressed air to keep you warm in frigid water, wet suits you would only want to put on once, not take off at the beach because you need to strip down to nothing. For my boating the best compromise off season is a good Mustang type, full life jacket with built in neoprene beaver tail diaper and wrist bans. In the pockets I keep a neoprene hoody and gloves, a head band with light/strobe and a floating VHF. I plan to get us in the dingy as fast as possible, my ditch bag stays in the dingy and the jackets hang at the door. We also use manual inflatable vests while traveling. Speed and access without bulky storage, and moor close as possible when going to the beach in the off season.

Jim.
 
Colby,

That combo from NRS should keep you dry when immersed, because both are double tunnel items. A single tunnel closure is prone to leaks, which is why some paddlers, WW or flatwater, who use single tunnel tops, choose a 3 mm Farmer John/Bill for their legs and torso. John and Bill are wet suits, which provide some insulating value when water gets underneath the neoprene. I have used a single tunnel closure dry top with a Farmer Bill quite a bit, and if I take a swim, after 20 minutes, there is quite a bit of water inside. Down to a water temp of about 50F, it gives me enough protection to do self rescue and reenter my sea kayak. Below 50F, I use a dry suit.

Those Freefall Dry Pants appear to be well thought out, which they better be for 250 bucks. Read the Reviews and the Q and A tabs for some sizing issues before you spring for them, however.

Agree with your assessment: Price wise, it's not saving me any money from some inexpensive dry suits I can find online, but when I think about what I would like, what my use would be, this seems like a good combination that would satisfy what I want.

Each is useful separately. You can use the top separately as a rain garment, ashore. And the pants will allow you to wade up to your thighs or so for fishing, etc., without the dry top.
 
Sort of what I'm thinking Dave. That last part about multi use, and together may provide enough dryness in case of full immersion. I have both a Cabella's and REI store near by. Not sure if either carry them though. But perhaps I could duck into those stores to look at what they have and get a better feeling for what all this stuff is. The double tunnel vs. single tunnel is Greek to me. I hate to spend a lot of money on something that won't get a lot of use. But I could see using the FreeFall pants in place of my old waders launching and retrieving the boat off season, and the combination as warmer rain gear on the boat. And then of course also the idea of short term survival gear while kayaking in cold water or even boating emergencies. Thanks for the other advice also. Colby
 
Colby, both those items are pretty specialized, and REI is unlikely to carry them. Not sure about Cabelas.

In WI, probably your best source to get one in your hands would be a paddleshop, maybe one frequented by whitewater canoeists and kayakers. Try Google searches on large cities near you for clubs using the phrase in bold.

Like this: whitewater canoeists kayakers in Green Bay

Or, whitewater rafters in Green Bay ... the rafting crowd has similar needs.

For gear, try this sort of thing: whitewater paddling gear in Green Bay

You may have to search on Minneapolis, Minesota to get a shop large enough to have much of a selection.
 
Thanks for the hints Dave. I try to get up to Door County at least once during the winter, but have had a full calendar, even after all the past boating... That may be my best bet, so I'll have to see if I can squeeze in a trip up there later in February... We do have one paddling shop in Madison, but I have found they really don't have much of a selection outside of summer kayaking. I will probably need to give NRS a call and just take some time talking to them about those items. Don't know if Dicks Sporting Goods would have anything, as they usually just stock locally also. We get cold water here in Madison, but usually it's covered with ice so that kind of puts a stop on any water sports other than ice fishing, sailing or sledding...in retrospect, you'd think there would be some outfitters of waterproof clothing for that... I still have to link over to one of those paddling forums as well, and follow some threads there. Colby
 
Colby,

West Coast Paddler has a strong corps of gear heads on it. Likely a couple folks will come up with authoritative analysis on the combination you favor, perhaps with the specific pants and top you are looking at. Pretty honest, no agenda crowd. Polite Canadians and some OR and WA folks, scatterings from all over, largely coastwise.

http://www.westcoastpaddler.com/community/
 
Warm dry tooties (feet) will do you no good if you happen to enter head first.

I know of no gear worn above the surface that protects your head in case of an
unexpected cold water immersion face first. Recall the involuntary inhale gasp
reflex...

Aye.
 
If going into cold water, always tightly cover the mouth and clamp the nose with fingers--basic water safety! That is also the reason that it is beneficial to have a good faceplate on if you go into the water, and then you can concentrate just on the mouth--or hand to keep the SCUBA gear mouth piece in place.

If water cannot enter the mouth or nose, it will prevent drowning... This should be practiced so it is a reflex if you fall overboard, capsize the kayak etc.
 
I just bought my first dry suit from Level Six this year. I bought it for cold water paddling, but I have not used it paddling yet. I did carry it along to Yukon and Atlin. The nice thing about a dry suit vs. a survival suit is that it rolls up small. When I roll it up, it is about 6" by 20". While kayaking I generally wear a pair of Level Six high waisted pants with booties and neoprene boots and a dry top. I can layer under these depending on activity and risk. Sometimes I wear a neoprene farmer john under if its cold or I think my likely hood of getting wet is higher.

My feeling with immersion is that the first thing you need to do is get out of the water quickly. Self rescue and paddling in a group are cold water skills you need while kayaking. On a C-Dory I would probably switch to the dry suit if the weather forecast was bad and I needed to do a long crossing. But, even if you go into the water, you need to get out quickly, back onto the boat or into a dingy. Your body looses warmth 23 times faster in water than in air. I think that a survival suit would be impractical in a small boat like a C-Dory due to its bulk. I like to carry gear that has more than one use.

Level Six is a Canadian company based in Ottawa and markets both to Canada and the U.S. . They have excellent gear and frequent sales online, especially on long weekends. I purchased my dry suit on a 40% off sale. The low Canadian dollar makes their gear especially attractive to U.S. buyers now.

https://www.levelsix.com
 
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