Do I really need Radar?

G

grutledge

New member
Hi C-Doryers

The C-Dory I just bought has radar, which is mounted near the front of the cabin (ie not on a radar arch). I realize that radar costs a bit of money and is important when the fog rolls in, but the radar is taking up valuable real-estate on the roof of my boat! I was thinking that I'd like to put a Thule rack on the roof for more storage, which would require me to remove the radar. Any opinions on this decision?

Keep in mind that in Brentwood Bay and the surrounding Gulf islands where I live, fog is not a big issue (It was when I had a boat in Victoria), although it does roll in once in a while.

Thanks. I appreciate all the feedback.

Glen
 
Hi Glen it depends, would you feel safer if you had it? If you are cruising in the San Juans which see a lot of fog you may want it. For me radar still is not aboard. I've run some fog around BC waters and not needed it much. Most of those days I could have stayed tied up. I call them "museum" days. Go see something in town. A lot of times even with radar it's stressful running. I went thru the northwest passage on a little boat and we had no radar. So do you need it Nope. Do you want it? Maybe later. Get cruising first. Go small Go simple Go now, as Lyn and Larry Pardey tell us. Go put a few hundred miles on and see how you feel.
 
I run around in your neck of the woods all the time in the summer and have needed radar on several occasions. Never need it for long and when you need it you cant go get it can you.

I want to say something about radar. Its not just for fog. I use it in the sun shine all the time and you would be amazed what you are missing if you dont. I always see boats on the radar first on bright sunny days. I set it for 3 miles and it shows boats that are still in the glare or heat waves. Also the large tankers and freighters that run into Seattle and Vancouver are hard to predict something. they move far faster then you would think and I like to use the radar to calculate the distance and speed of the big boys.
 
Hi Glen,

The times when you need radar, nothing else will do. Since you haven't run with it in the past, consider going as-is for a while, using the radar, to see if you feel the same. Fog is generally not an issue in our home waters, either, but when it rolls in, it often rolls in fast. I needed it yesterday, in addition to a chartplotter.

That said, can you mount the rack behind the radar? Or consider a radar arch (or mast) at the back of the cabin. Options.

Plenty of boats run without radar, so it isn't like you have to have it. But, once you have used it, well, you know.

Good luck with your decisions, and enjoy the new boat!

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
I don't do much night travel but always use the radar when I do. The electronic charts do not always show the shoreline and channel markers accurately on these winding rivers but radar does a great job at that.
 
I boat on a broad spectrum of waters. So, the radar on Still Crazy has really found a niche in my boating life. I spend most of my time on lakes where there are tour boats in abundance and houseboats being run by people who've never even operated a 12 foot john boat. These guys are all big wake makers. On occasion they are captained by people who don't give a hoot for what their wakes are doing. Fortunately, my nice radar gives a heads up to me at what is coming, how big and from which direction before my eyes have a chance to pick them out. It is particularly useful to peek at what is coming at you and how fast and how big from behind. CD's aren't known for their visibility to the rear! In most lake operations, even large boats can be lost in the background of trees and mountains when all you have are eyes-on. I don't boat at night, but in the daytime in all of the many light conditions, my radar is really useful. I of course didn't know that until I'd used it a couple trips. Now, you'd only get it by prying it from my dead cold hands. (It has also been useful in picking up buoys in the daylight before I can see them with my eyes.)
 
I have had radar on most of my boats in the last 30 years--but the current C Dory does not have a radar, and I will probably not put one on.

That being said--If the radar is on the boat, keep it for now. Learn how to use it, by running during the day. I have run a fair amount up in your neck of the woods--I don't like to run at night up there--even with radar. I have only had dense fog a couple of days--but those days the radar was extremely valuable. I grew up boating in the fog without radar, and there are tricks you lean--but hearing the splash of a 600 foot ship's prop, and not knowing exactly where it is does not lead to a comfortable feeling!

There are a number of ways to put kayaks and dinghies on the roof and still have the radar. Check through the albums to see what innovative solutions are present.
 
Roger and Tom and the others bring up the major points about having radar aboard. Use it and know it and run it during the day. A great many folks I think venture out into poor visibility thinking, " I have radar" but do the know what it's showing them and can they run the boat and be appropriate mariners with situation awareness while they have the added stress of not being able to see? Like a lot of other things in life including GPS use many people venture on the water relying on electronics without a lot of background knowledge about how to get around. Humans being visual oriented tend to feel more comfortable when we can see and it takes some doing to either fly or boat relying on instruments. You need some practice. I used to counsel people with new electronics including radar to practise during daytime good vis with different settings so they can start to see what it looks like outside and compare that to their screen. I once had a student with a new radar installed groping along in fog offshore of cape flattery swear to me that there were no ships nearby while I could hear the slap of a large ships prop as it was coming out of the water. It was pretty close and this new owner was pretty happy that the coast was clear. Looking later he had installed it himself and never done any sea trials It wasn't seeing things at all well. So many times and places one can boat along happily without it, and if it's aboard know it inside and out and not try to learn about it while in fog for your first time. The thing about radar installs is folks sometimes think you plunk down your 2-3 grand and you have radar. Not so, are you going to mount it on a $500 post or a $2000 custom arch? Then you want a professional install and calibration including sea trials. I think it would be tough to put a well done radar install aboard for much less than $5k. Sizeable pile of dough, I believe Kerri On will sport radar ar some point, but for now I can pretty much pick my days to cruise and places. Lake Powell has little fog. I'm heading to the Sacramento Delta this month. Pretty close to San Francisco. It will be interesting to see if fog affects the area. I think if you're running a lot of fog and it's starting to affect your enjoyment then for sure get some help aboard and get a good radar set. I think I personally feel that one should put aboard all the equipment one needs to feel comfortable for ones own safety and then know how it works. Some of us feel safe with a compass and a chart. I once had a client making a voyage from Prince Rupert to Hada Gwai BC. He had a steel offshore custom sailboat and to feel comfortable he "needed" not one but two offshore liferafts aboard. The $20,000 sitting around didn't bother him. I wouldn't have taken even one as he had a perfectly good inflatable dinghy aboard also. But he felt safe and that's what counts.
 
The other thing Glen is that since you already have radar and assuming it is working properly, I'd keep it and know how to use it. One of the things we find with these boats is a lot of folks tend to keep on adding weight high up and more and more gear aboard and then you can't keep up with Chris on Rana Verde because all your get up and go got up and went! I'd keep the radar right there and put an inflatable kayak alongside it and keep the storage rack ashore. I purge Kerri On monthly of junk just so I can keep the stability and performance. After seeing what Rana Verde doesn't have aboard I'll be taking some more stuff off. George
 
Yep it is good for tracking guide boats with out then knowing. As others have said if you have it learn to us it in clear weather. when I bought the 22 I had never used radar before so I ran with it on all the time for the first year and I learned a lot. Learn to adjust the power and gain to best suit the situation. If you are only in a mile wide channel you dont need it set on 20 mile or even 3 miles range. the smaller the range setting the better to set thing that you will run in to first.

Now I have used it alot in this area to travel and fish and not once in the last 7years have I had the change to stay at the dock when there is fog. It never happens that way for me. Its always the fog moves in on you while you are fishing or cruising or its between you and where you have to go.

George if you are headed to the bay and the delta this time of year you are going to get a lot of fog. And it will last for days if not weeks. Thats my old fishing grounds and I delivered all over the delta for one job I had in 96. It gets so think you just pull over and wait because you cant see the end of the hood. While driving to my fathers mothers house to my mothers mothers house, 9 blocks from each other, I once had to get out of the car ,find the curb, follow it to the street sign and then climb the sign to read what street I was one. I am know for creative story telling but this is not one of those times. It gets thick in the valley, have fun.
 
Thanks Tom, if it is real ugly with fog does that mean I can get the Garmin 740 for christmas? Nice machine. Oh here I go again, more stuff! Have fun out there.
 
I think it was 1993 I had a 24' Grady White Offshore with a 200 hp Johnson my father inlaw and I left Sea Isle City,New Jersey headed out Towsends inlet for a days fishing at daybreak. It was clear as a bell. After a couple hours while we were trolling around the fog closed in, We were only about six miles offshore. I thought we would head to Avalon Shoal and drop anchor as we had no radar. Back then we used Loran. Slowly we crept through the fog my father inlaw Norm sitting up on the bow to keep an eye out. About half way to Avalon Shoal a vessel with a large horn blew a warning signal, We were heading south in or near the shipping lanes. I decided who knows why to bust a hard left put the compass on 90 degrees and went on plane for 30 or 40 seconds and then shut the motor off to listen, damn whatever it was blew at us again, I went another 30 to 40 seconds again still heading due east. I shut down again and listened we heard the engines but never saw what it was. We slowing crept down to Avalon Shoal and anchored up and waited for the fog to clear. I hind sight I guess maybe I should have headed due west towards shore but thats hindsight. I would not leave in foggy conditions but I have been caught in it enough to make the decision to get it for Will-C. The GPS works fine in the fog but being able to see large and small vessels in pea soup is a good thing. If you boat near shipping lanes or where large or small fast or slow ferries roam I'd want to have radar. Call me crazy. I use radar everytime the boat moves. I have not had to use in the fog yet but for me I'll never forget the sound of those engines all those years ago. :shock:
D.D.
 
I've had boats with and without too. I'd go without if the need or desire calls for it. Instead, use AIS, like shipfinder app on a IPAD or IPhone or the Droid equivalent on a Kindle Fire tablet. Another solution is www.marinetraffic.com on a laptop.

If it's foggy, stay in, or hail another vessel with radar and follow them. I did that when caught in the fog near Blake Island.

-Greg
 
I think radar is a great safety tool.

We use the Evergreen Exploring charts for San Juans and Gulf Islands, and I've always been impressed by the number of boats that have gone aground in the fog or at night. With the advent of GPS and radar I assume that it takes a deliberate screw-up to do the same today.

We would not think of cruising a boat without GPS, and I feel the same about radar. The new ones are getting costly, but if the boat comes with one for free, why would one even think of ditching it?

One note about using radar. You have to practice using radar during the day when you can see the real scene and also see what that looks like on the radar. You have to learn what a small boat looks like, what the big freighter looks like and how to tell the difference between a moving object and something sitting still, how a bouy looks on the radar, etc. Practice before you need it, or you'll have difficulty understand what's on the radar screen. And as I found out, keep practicing; you can do this when you're cruising.

Saved our rear several times.

Boris
 
Jeff Brigner":upbknfqw said:
I don't do much night travel but always use the radar when I do. The electronic charts do not always show the shoreline and channel markers accurately on these winding rivers but radar does a great job at that.
Click to expand...

I agree. Radar has twice enabled me to avoid collisions at night with (other) careless fishermen.
 
Foggy days out of Newport require radar and the VHF chatter will make you laugh or cry depending on your viewpoint.

VHF hail – Anyone going out the chicken ranch with radar that I can follow out (very common request)
Or the best one yet on a very very foggy morning

VHF hail 1 – Hey Bob where are you going?
Bob reply – Heading out to the ranch for halibut
VHF1 reply – You are going in the wrong direction
Bob reply – What direction should I be going?
VHF1 reply – Bob you might want to try West to start with

I depend on my radar don’t leave home without it

stevej
 
About seven years ago when I got my first radar, I followed Thataway Bob's advice and used the radar in active mode all the time when underway and was real happy to have done so when I needed it in fog or to run at night. I too found that many times I would see other vessels on radar before noticing them visually, even in great conditions. I don't always run with it active anymore, just to cut down the wear and tear a little but I still use it quite a bit. It helps a lot to make comparisons of your surroundings with the plotter, chart, radar and visual references. On a day when you are without one of those references, you have one more tool remaining to fill the gap that is somewhat intuitive to you. Besides use in low visibility, radar is useful for range finding. They are not cheap but the resale isn't that great so why not keep it?
 
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