I will be towing my CD 16 Cruiser (1700# w. trailer) with a 2012 Toyota FJ Cruiser from Vancouver Island, Canada, to Texas twice a year, a distance of about 2,500 miles each way. The FJ has a towing capacity of 5,000 lbs. according to the manual. I have a 2006 EZ Loader trailer that's in solid condition. I'm a bit concerned about towing the boat with my relatively short wheelbase FJ (108"), and I wonder if any C-Brats can advise me whether I should keep the existing trailer and use it as is (no brakes), add surge or other brakes to the existing trailer or start all over with a new trailer with or without brakes. I'd like to be safe. Any thoughts would be very much appreciated. Bruce
Do I Need Trailer Brakes?
- Thread starter mangobob
- Start date
First you have the canadian rules:
Gross trailer weight of 1,400 kg (3,080 Ibs) or less – Brakes are required if the trailer and its load weigh more than 50% of the licensed weight of the vehicle towing it.
In the US, going thru WA, OR UT, AZ, NM, and TX, you are OK with that size trailer and no brakes.
However, with a relitatively small tow vehicle, I would put trailer brakes on what you have. I tow about the same size trailer with my 18 foot Caracal--but tow it with a 36,000 lb RV or a Yukon XL--but I do notice it with both of the vehicles, and if any more than I would probably put brakes on.
Gross trailer weight of 1,400 kg (3,080 Ibs) or less – Brakes are required if the trailer and its load weigh more than 50% of the licensed weight of the vehicle towing it.
In the US, going thru WA, OR UT, AZ, NM, and TX, you are OK with that size trailer and no brakes.
However, with a relitatively small tow vehicle, I would put trailer brakes on what you have. I tow about the same size trailer with my 18 foot Caracal--but tow it with a 36,000 lb RV or a Yukon XL--but I do notice it with both of the vehicles, and if any more than I would probably put brakes on.
Bruce
Years ago I towed my first boat, a 19' IO cuddy all around with an old Toyota FJ 40 did not have trailer brakes, get brakes they will help a lot. Also your concerns about the short wheel base are justified. Just be careful and you will be fine. Backing the trailer was a mother bear but it can be done. Sure wish I would have kept that old Toyota. Great little vehicle
Years ago I towed my first boat, a 19' IO cuddy all around with an old Toyota FJ 40 did not have trailer brakes, get brakes they will help a lot. Also your concerns about the short wheel base are justified. Just be careful and you will be fine. Backing the trailer was a mother bear but it can be done. Sure wish I would have kept that old Toyota. Great little vehicle
For that size boat and trailer, the surge brakes are fine. I would recommend disc, with a solenoid lock out for backing--attached to the reverse lights.
There are videos on the internet showing the procedure of installation. You should be able to get a "kit" with coupler, all of the brake parts, solenoid valve, and brake lines for $500. A new trailer is going to be considerably more.
Also you want to be sure that your trailer tires are less than 5 years old--6 at the outside.
Take appropriate jacks, tools for dismounting a wheel, spare wheel and tire, extra wheel bearings, and I have also carried an extra hub, with the wheel bolted on for longer trips.
I repack (renew) all of the wheel bearing grease before each long trip.
There are videos on the internet showing the procedure of installation. You should be able to get a "kit" with coupler, all of the brake parts, solenoid valve, and brake lines for $500. A new trailer is going to be considerably more.
Also you want to be sure that your trailer tires are less than 5 years old--6 at the outside.
Take appropriate jacks, tools for dismounting a wheel, spare wheel and tire, extra wheel bearings, and I have also carried an extra hub, with the wheel bolted on for longer trips.
I repack (renew) all of the wheel bearing grease before each long trip.
Just a heads-up that EZ Loader sometimes uses axles on their lightweight trailers that don't accept the typical disc upgrade packages. I once ran into this and as I recall it had something to do with a problem mounting the caliper bracket.
I know they have several models that cover various weight categories so with luck you might have an upgradeable trailer. Be sure to have the exact model number etc. when calling EZ Loader.
I know they have several models that cover various weight categories so with luck you might have an upgradeable trailer. Be sure to have the exact model number etc. when calling EZ Loader.
I added brakes to my 2002 trailer when it was ten years old - was totally doable and appropriate. I see above where someone said to check if they can be added to your trailer, but I mean in general I felt it was better than buying a new trailer.
My trailer is a tandem (22 Cruiser) and it came to me with drum brakes on one axle, no brakes on the other axle, and a totally un-usable brake actuator. The trailer also needed quite a few other things in order to be the cross-country hauler I wanted. So I considered a new trailer. But I decided to fix mine instead. It worked out that I was able to do all the upgrades (many!) for less than a new trailer; but in addition, many of the components I installed were better/different than I would have gotten stock on a new trailer. So I was happy with the outcome in that way.
In my case, for the brakes, I added Kodiak disc brakes to both axles, with new lines (the flexible hose type), and a new surge actuator (with reverse lockout solenoid). I'm very happy with them. The axle on my trailer that had not had brakes originally did have the square plates that the brakes mount to, so that was nice.
Of course there is nothing wrong with buying a new trailer either, but adding brakes to an older trailer is at least something worth checking into.
Sunbeam
My trailer is a tandem (22 Cruiser) and it came to me with drum brakes on one axle, no brakes on the other axle, and a totally un-usable brake actuator. The trailer also needed quite a few other things in order to be the cross-country hauler I wanted. So I considered a new trailer. But I decided to fix mine instead. It worked out that I was able to do all the upgrades (many!) for less than a new trailer; but in addition, many of the components I installed were better/different than I would have gotten stock on a new trailer. So I was happy with the outcome in that way.
In my case, for the brakes, I added Kodiak disc brakes to both axles, with new lines (the flexible hose type), and a new surge actuator (with reverse lockout solenoid). I'm very happy with them. The axle on my trailer that had not had brakes originally did have the square plates that the brakes mount to, so that was nice.
Of course there is nothing wrong with buying a new trailer either, but adding brakes to an older trailer is at least something worth checking into.
Sunbeam
Wow! Thank you all for the wealth of information. It will take me a while to check the internet and digest your comments and suggestions. All of my tools are in Texas, so it's going to be difficult to do the install myself here in Canada. I'll see if I can get someone locally to install the brakes. But after reading all of the comments, I'm definitely getting trailer brakes for the long haul to Texas. Bruce
Along with the brakes (at least surge, but SS disc if you are flush with money), a distribution load hitch will work wonders in control and ride. I have an Xterra (5000lb 500lb tongue limit), that's also short in wheelbase, and DL definitely helps, seems like especially when going down long grades.
T.R. Bauer
New member
I guess I am the lone wolf. While I don't think you will ever regret putting brakes on it, I don't think you need them at all. I don't think you will even know 1700 pounds is even there. Most of the guys commenting have a 22 or larger. The 16 is really light and I have pulled lots of small boats like yours (used to have a 16 foot Bayliner) that didn't have brakes with absolutely no issues. Even my old 82 toyota 4x4 pickup would perform the duty just fine and it isn't nearly the tow vehicle your rig is. No arguing it will be better with brakes for sure, but not really certain you actually need them.
'o cino":3rgieuuh said:
This doesn't quite make sense. Reason I say that is you are comparing a method of applying the brakes (surge), with brake material (stainless being one options) as if they were parallel items.
Surge is one way the brakes can be activated, and surge can activate either drums (what my trailer came with) or discs (stainless or other material, which is what I have now, but still surge). So surge can easily go with stainless discs. You do need a different actuator for discs, but the OP would be buying a new one anyway (or supposedly you can pierce the diaphragm on a drum one, but I have never tried this).
Then there is disc material. Stainless is supposed to be the best. When I bought mine, there was some talk that stainless could.... I forget what, but warp or crack or something. So I got Kodiak's Dacromet coated discs. (I haven't followed up to see if the stainless thing was a myth or was real, and if so now is fixed, etc.)
The big money step up is in electric activation (electric-over-hydraulic) instead of surge. Maybe this is what you meant? From all I know that's really nice, but I can't imagine surge won't work just fine on such a small rig. I have surge on my 22, and although I wouldn't mind EOH for sure, the surge has done just fine on many cross-country trips. I would go EOH for sure on a 25, for a splurge on a 22, and probably not at all on a 16.
****
I used to tow a 1400# camper trailer with a station wagon and it did not have brakes. On that rig I definitely would have added them if I'd kept towing or made longer trips (made only a few shorter trips) or if I had known what I know now (having used them). But the OP's tow vehicle is much larger and heavier so it may be fine with no brakes. I guess see if it feels like the trailer is "pushing you around" if you go to make a quick stop. In the aforementioned station wagon, it definitely felt that way. (3000# vehicle rated to tow 3300#).
In my current rig towing the 22 with brakes, the braking feels about the same when towing or not towing (that's how much good the trailer brakes do). So if you feel like the trailer is "pushing you around" when you are stopping, maybe that's a good time to consider brakes.
Not a lone wolf, T.R. - I was thinking the same thing. We hauled a small sailboat (Com-Pac SunCat, 17.5') behind a one ton Class B van (8,400 pound tow rating); no trailer brakes. Around 1,500 lbs on the trailer. VERY easy to tow and stop. All of our other trailerable boats have been considerably heavier than that, and always had trailer brakes.
If the tow vehicle can easily handle the weight for towing and stopping, an extra "system" is just one more maintenance item. Certainly, trailer brakes are not a detriment on a small load, but not always necessary. Anything over 2,000 pounds, I would consider the trailer brakes a must.
A small boat is the ultimate "keeping it simple" conveyance, since the boat will also have limited load capacity. As with all things boating, it's a compromise. I don't recommend compromising where safety is concerned, but I would have to see some facts to support brakes on a light trailer load making a significant difference... I could be swayed.
Jim
If the tow vehicle can easily handle the weight for towing and stopping, an extra "system" is just one more maintenance item. Certainly, trailer brakes are not a detriment on a small load, but not always necessary. Anything over 2,000 pounds, I would consider the trailer brakes a must.
A small boat is the ultimate "keeping it simple" conveyance, since the boat will also have limited load capacity. As with all things boating, it's a compromise. I don't recommend compromising where safety is concerned, but I would have to see some facts to support brakes on a light trailer load making a significant difference... I could be swayed.
Jim
I am going to have to disagree with the lack of need for trailer brakes on the 1700 # (probably minimal wt) trailered load.
The Toyota JF is known for poor braking for example comparison to a Mustang:
"braking distance at 60mph Ford Mustang 104 ft vs FJ Cruiser 138 ft The Mustang GT has extraordinary brakes, but the FJ Cruiser is quite bad." From a comparison test.
There are other critiques (and I am not knocking the vehicle), which suggest that the FJ cruiser is not the best of handling vehicles.
The FJ cruiser weight is listed at 4090#, the 1700/# trailer is 41.5% of the weight of the FJ Cruiser. You have an extra 1700 lbs of momentum pushing a vehicle which already has limited braking capacity. Since Mass x Velocity squared, velocity is the same, but the stopping distance will increase by 41.5%! That is a bunch. Take the example above; the stopping distance will increase to 195 feet--almost twice the stopping distance of the Ford Mustang…! In normal prudent driving, maybe not an issue--but in a forced emergency stop--can be very significant.
There are some comments on other forums, about the effect of a trailer which weighs 25% of the weight of the tow vehicle, and recommend brakes.
Remember I regularly tow a 1800 lb load, 18 foot CC boat,(probably a bit more than that weight with fuel etc) behind a large SUV (weight over 6000 lbs) or an RV, (weight on the scales today was just over 32,000 lbs), and I do notice the difference braking with and without the trailer.
The Toyota JF is known for poor braking for example comparison to a Mustang:
"braking distance at 60mph Ford Mustang 104 ft vs FJ Cruiser 138 ft The Mustang GT has extraordinary brakes, but the FJ Cruiser is quite bad." From a comparison test.
There are other critiques (and I am not knocking the vehicle), which suggest that the FJ cruiser is not the best of handling vehicles.
The FJ cruiser weight is listed at 4090#, the 1700/# trailer is 41.5% of the weight of the FJ Cruiser. You have an extra 1700 lbs of momentum pushing a vehicle which already has limited braking capacity. Since Mass x Velocity squared, velocity is the same, but the stopping distance will increase by 41.5%! That is a bunch. Take the example above; the stopping distance will increase to 195 feet--almost twice the stopping distance of the Ford Mustang…! In normal prudent driving, maybe not an issue--but in a forced emergency stop--can be very significant.
There are some comments on other forums, about the effect of a trailer which weighs 25% of the weight of the tow vehicle, and recommend brakes.
Remember I regularly tow a 1800 lb load, 18 foot CC boat,(probably a bit more than that weight with fuel etc) behind a large SUV (weight over 6000 lbs) or an RV, (weight on the scales today was just over 32,000 lbs), and I do notice the difference braking with and without the trailer.
colbysmith
Active member
Not aware of the state laws regarding brakes, but speaking just on the brakes them selves, your boat and trailer combo sound like they are probably light enough not to worry. However, I also agree you'd never regret putting brakes on. And I'm going to go against the tide here, but if you are retrofitting your trailer, I think you will find the cheapest and easiest retrofit would to just go completely electric. I have replaced two surge units with electric, and that is all that I run on my trailers. (I'll admit I don't launch in salt, but do put up with the road salt of midwest winters...) However, you would need to add an electric control unit to your tow vehicle, but also not all that expensive, assuming you do it yourself. If you're trailer/boat combo is less than 2000 lbs, I just can't see spending any more than necessary, and it's not like that is a lot of weight to stop. But brakes on the trailer would help conserve the auto brakes! You should be able to retrofit to electric for less than $150/wheel, and a controller unit could be found for under $100. Colby
journey on
New member
OK, enough. Colbysmith keeps recommending all electric brakes, but he lives in Madison, Wisconsen. And apparently never launches in salt water. I wish he would try that just once.
Now I have all electric drum brakes on the travel trailer and they're wonderful. The consist of an iron magnet, exposed electric wires and a bar which rubs against the magnet when energized and forces the shoes to the drum. Excellent system if you never dunk them in the water. Per Colbysmith, excellent even if you dunk them in fresh water. I don't know but those components are really susceptible to corrosion..
However, the obvious shortcomings of putting electric connections and components in salt water leads to disaster, and that I do know. The effect on drums and disks in salt water is common knowledge. Also, I assume the effects of salt on electrics is common knowledge also.
So if you launch in salt water and want brakes, please use surge hydraulic or electric/hydraulic brakes.
I hauled a 22' sailboat with no brakes using a 1/2 ton PU and that worked well. The truck was heavy and the boat lighter than a C-Dory 22.
Boris
Now I have all electric drum brakes on the travel trailer and they're wonderful. The consist of an iron magnet, exposed electric wires and a bar which rubs against the magnet when energized and forces the shoes to the drum. Excellent system if you never dunk them in the water. Per Colbysmith, excellent even if you dunk them in fresh water. I don't know but those components are really susceptible to corrosion..
However, the obvious shortcomings of putting electric connections and components in salt water leads to disaster, and that I do know. The effect on drums and disks in salt water is common knowledge. Also, I assume the effects of salt on electrics is common knowledge also.
So if you launch in salt water and want brakes, please use surge hydraulic or electric/hydraulic brakes.
I hauled a 22' sailboat with no brakes using a 1/2 ton PU and that worked well. The truck was heavy and the boat lighter than a C-Dory 22.
Boris
thataway's response sent me off to the internet for quite some time to discover that a charitable description of the Toyota FJ's brakes is that they are "quite bad," at least in comparison with the Ford Mustang. I understand that they're two completely different vehicles, but the differences were arresting in one test: 0-60 mph stop in Mustang in 104' and 138' in Toyota FJ. I've had my FJ for two years and never had a panic stop, but I do agree that while it's great off road, and it really is, it's not a smooth or particularly wonderful highway vehicle, partly because of its relatively high center of gravity. I now plan to look into colbysmith's recommendation for all electric brakes. As he points out, it can't hurt. I've had electric brakes on previous vehicles with good success, and the in-cab controller is certainly reassuring in the mountains.
T.R. Bauer
New member
I can't believe we just compared Mustang GT brakes to an FJ's....It is no surprise that a 400 plus hp car capable of 150 mph has better brakes. Yep, it sure does. I have one - it is like a rocket ship with Brembo brakes to boot. It really stops. I too offered you wouldn't regret getting brakes. Is there a real need? I don't think so, but putting them on won't hurt at all. And if you sleep better at night, that is worth something.
BTW, even with trailer brakes you won't stop nearly as well as the Mustang GT......ever......And this might come to a surprise to folks too; you won't go 0-60 in less than 5 seconds. Or run the quarter in less than 13 seconds....LOL....And it aint worth beans off road.....come on guys
BTW, even with trailer brakes you won't stop nearly as well as the Mustang GT......ever......And this might come to a surprise to folks too; you won't go 0-60 in less than 5 seconds. Or run the quarter in less than 13 seconds....LOL....And it aint worth beans off road.....come on guys
mangobob":2zs8akwq said:
Just so you know, the in-cab controller is a feature of any electric braking system, not just the "all electric" ones that Colby uses. You also have an in-cab controller on hydraulic brakes if you have "electric over hydraulic" brakes (what most C-Dory 25's have, for example). That way the hydraulic part gets dunked, but the electric part is up higher. So you would have a choice between all electric or electric-over hydraulic with the in-cab controller (Tekonsha P3 or similar).
I actually think either of those would be almost silly on a 16, and can't imagine going with anything more than surge brakes (they simply activate by pressure when you slow or stop). I say "almost" because if the in-cab controller makes the difference between happy and nervous towing for you, by all means get one. It's no fun if it's no fun.
As someone that has actually towed a 16-foot C-Dory Angler (both heavily and lightly loaded), as well as a heavier (and even more heavily loaded) 17-foot Arima Sea Ranger with a short-wheelbase vehicle, I'm going to chime in...
I'm not going to address the legal requirements for two reasons. First, I don't know the trailering laws in the jurisdictions in question. And second, it has already been pointed out that brakes may be a legal requirement along some parts of the journey, and whether or not one decides to break a traffic law is none of my business.
What I am going to address is the actual need for trailer brakes when towing a 16-footer on a short wheelbase vehicle. As a comparison, the experience upon which I am drawing is with the use of a 1997 Jeep TJ (Wrangler) as a tow rig, logging several thousand miles in both summer and winter, over seven or eight years while the towed weight progressively increased. The wheelbase of that Jeep is shorter than that of the FJ at just over 93 inches, and the factory towing capacity rating is significantly less at only 2000#.
That said, I easily towed my 16-footer with the Jeep, and without the benefit (or added complexity) of trailer brakes. In the end, the boat was fairly heavy due to the addition of modifications such as twin 24-gallon fuel tanks, but I don't remember ever weighing it. When I sold the Angler and bought the Arima, I also towed it without trailer brakes (albeit for only a short time). However, the loaded Arima was quite a bit heavier than the C-Dory, and the additional weight was very noticeable under tow - especially while braking. Adding electric drum trailer brakes with a good Tekonsha P3 brake controller brought the braking back into my comfort zone.
After having towed the Arima for a couple of years, I had it weighed. The complete towed load, stocked for a weekend trip, scaled in at a hefty 3600 pounds on the trailer. Shortly after that, I made the decision to get a bigger tow rig. But, that decision wasn't made because I was having issues towing... Rather, it was because the Jeep had 230k miles on the odometer and was beginning to show its age, as well as a desire to eventually upgrade to a larger boat (which I would most certainly not be able to tow with the Jeep).
After selling the Jeep and buying a 2003 Ford F-250, I still used the trailer brakes I had installed previously. Although, there was one full summer that I knew they weren't operating, but I didn't have the time or inclination to properly fix them, so I just did without. Even without its trailer brakes operational, I felt no discernible difference when using the much longer wheelbase Ford to tow the now heavier Arima that I estimate to be upwards of 4000 pounds (I had since added a pair of long-range fuel tanks and other goodies). If I were still using the Jeep, I would have been forced to park the boat until I could get the brakes fixed.
Finally, I bought a 26-foot Cape Cruiser which I estimate to be about 8000# of towed weight when loaded for a weekend trip. The trailer for this boat is brand new, and has factory installed surge brakes. Towing with the Ford, I can most certainly feel the trailer pushing the truck when I start braking, at which point the surge brakes are activated and the trailer begins to use its own brakes to slow down. To me, this surge forward is very disconcerting. It feels very unstable, even in the much heavier, and much longer wheelbase truck. I can foresee this being a real safety issue when towing in snowy/icy winter conditions. So, I will be removing the surge system and replacing it with an electric over hydraulic system before winter.
I bring this up for the following reason... As someone that has experience towing with a short wheelbase vehicle, there is absolutely no way I would recommend surge brakes for that setup. I would rather have no brakes at all than be pushed around by unstable and unpredictable activation of surge brakes.
Honestly, I don't think trailer brakes are even necessary when towing a 16-foot C-Dory with a short wheelbase vehicle. However, I do see how they could be beneficial if one were to choose to use them. But, there really is no need for an expensive electric over hydraulic brake system, and I wholeheartedly recommend against using surge brakes. I believe that (even with the noted possibility of increased maintenance) standard electric brakes - and a good brake controller - would be the best fit for this type of setup.
That's my two cents. Do with it what you will.
I'm not going to address the legal requirements for two reasons. First, I don't know the trailering laws in the jurisdictions in question. And second, it has already been pointed out that brakes may be a legal requirement along some parts of the journey, and whether or not one decides to break a traffic law is none of my business.
What I am going to address is the actual need for trailer brakes when towing a 16-footer on a short wheelbase vehicle. As a comparison, the experience upon which I am drawing is with the use of a 1997 Jeep TJ (Wrangler) as a tow rig, logging several thousand miles in both summer and winter, over seven or eight years while the towed weight progressively increased. The wheelbase of that Jeep is shorter than that of the FJ at just over 93 inches, and the factory towing capacity rating is significantly less at only 2000#.
That said, I easily towed my 16-footer with the Jeep, and without the benefit (or added complexity) of trailer brakes. In the end, the boat was fairly heavy due to the addition of modifications such as twin 24-gallon fuel tanks, but I don't remember ever weighing it. When I sold the Angler and bought the Arima, I also towed it without trailer brakes (albeit for only a short time). However, the loaded Arima was quite a bit heavier than the C-Dory, and the additional weight was very noticeable under tow - especially while braking. Adding electric drum trailer brakes with a good Tekonsha P3 brake controller brought the braking back into my comfort zone.
After having towed the Arima for a couple of years, I had it weighed. The complete towed load, stocked for a weekend trip, scaled in at a hefty 3600 pounds on the trailer. Shortly after that, I made the decision to get a bigger tow rig. But, that decision wasn't made because I was having issues towing... Rather, it was because the Jeep had 230k miles on the odometer and was beginning to show its age, as well as a desire to eventually upgrade to a larger boat (which I would most certainly not be able to tow with the Jeep).
After selling the Jeep and buying a 2003 Ford F-250, I still used the trailer brakes I had installed previously. Although, there was one full summer that I knew they weren't operating, but I didn't have the time or inclination to properly fix them, so I just did without. Even without its trailer brakes operational, I felt no discernible difference when using the much longer wheelbase Ford to tow the now heavier Arima that I estimate to be upwards of 4000 pounds (I had since added a pair of long-range fuel tanks and other goodies). If I were still using the Jeep, I would have been forced to park the boat until I could get the brakes fixed.
Finally, I bought a 26-foot Cape Cruiser which I estimate to be about 8000# of towed weight when loaded for a weekend trip. The trailer for this boat is brand new, and has factory installed surge brakes. Towing with the Ford, I can most certainly feel the trailer pushing the truck when I start braking, at which point the surge brakes are activated and the trailer begins to use its own brakes to slow down. To me, this surge forward is very disconcerting. It feels very unstable, even in the much heavier, and much longer wheelbase truck. I can foresee this being a real safety issue when towing in snowy/icy winter conditions. So, I will be removing the surge system and replacing it with an electric over hydraulic system before winter.
I bring this up for the following reason... As someone that has experience towing with a short wheelbase vehicle, there is absolutely no way I would recommend surge brakes for that setup. I would rather have no brakes at all than be pushed around by unstable and unpredictable activation of surge brakes.
Honestly, I don't think trailer brakes are even necessary when towing a 16-foot C-Dory with a short wheelbase vehicle. However, I do see how they could be beneficial if one were to choose to use them. But, there really is no need for an expensive electric over hydraulic brake system, and I wholeheartedly recommend against using surge brakes. I believe that (even with the noted possibility of increased maintenance) standard electric brakes - and a good brake controller - would be the best fit for this type of setup.
That's my two cents. Do with it what you will.