As we had our first real Spring day here on the West Coast, my thinking turned to boating. I do seem to be allowed create a poll, but I am wondering how many brats still use marine charts to navigate with. How many of us carry them on board and how many actually use them, at least part of the time, as either their principal method of navigation or, more likely, as an aid to a chart plotter or other electronic device? We use them as a supplement/back up to the Raymarine that came with the boat. Ours are not up to date but still useful as Vancouver Island does not seem to move about very often, although I know this is not correct navigational etiquette. Anyway, what is the state of the marine chart for C-Brats?
Do any brats use marine charts?
- Thread starter swfvi
- Start date
I carry paper charts, or charts on the computer. We use them mostly for planing purposes (along with Active Captain). Our actual navigation is with a chart plotter. However, I can think of instances where we might use the charts. Also if there is any question on the chart plotter, the paper charts come out.
Mostly I navigate with the Navionics charts on my chart plotter. I also use MxMariner on a tablet which uses NOAA charts (the charts are downloaded for offline use). You can also install charts from NZ, Brazil, and UK. If the tablet has GPS, this app can be used as a backup plotter. It can download and display the ActiveCaptain database and is good for planning.
I may also carry the Waterway Guides for some areas (e.g. Chesapeake Bay).
On a CD22 there isn't a lot of room to store and use large charts, where as a tablet can easily hold the charts for the entire country.
Usually I have this app in two tablets and my phone when I cruise.
I may also carry the Waterway Guides for some areas (e.g. Chesapeake Bay).
On a CD22 there isn't a lot of room to store and use large charts, where as a tablet can easily hold the charts for the entire country.
Usually I have this app in two tablets and my phone when I cruise.
Saxe Point
New member
I carry paper charts on my boat but I don’t use them. I use my chart plotter. I expect that most boaters do the same.
I carry the charts in the event of chart plotter failure or loss of electrical power - and because Canadian law seems to require it.
But I’ve been fortunate and have never been deprived of an operable chart plotter. I wonder how often that happens? Got to be exceedingly rare.
I carry the charts in the event of chart plotter failure or loss of electrical power - and because Canadian law seems to require it.
But I’ve been fortunate and have never been deprived of an operable chart plotter. I wonder how often that happens? Got to be exceedingly rare.
South of Heaven
New member
No.
South of Heaven
New member
No.
colbysmith
Active member
I mostly use the charts on my chart plotter (Garmin GPSMAP 840), but I also carry paper charts for most everywhere I boat and do ocassionally refer to them as a larger view or as backup to my plotter. As a note when I was with the airlines before retirement one of our guys noticed that our navigation electronics was not showing the decent sized mountain just a bit off the end of a Reno runway! (He reported it and a correction in the next update was made!) Our electronics are only as accurate as the computers make them and that kind of goes for charts also. Personally I believe in the motto use all that is available to you! Colby. P.s. I should note I travel a lot in unfamiliar areas also. But even in larger bodies of water I’m familiar with I still use the paper charts as stated above.
The problem with paper charts is that the information they contain can be many, many years old, even if you just bought them. With electronic charts there is at least the possibility that they are more recently updated. Some chart companies even have a mechanism for users to submit data from their chartplotters to update the charts used by others.
Since tides are fairly well understood and predictable, another possibility with electronic charts (but which I have not seen implemented) is to show real-time water depths based on location and tide condition. One could even have a time slider to show the water depth at a particular time in the future (or past).
For a C-Dory this feature might not be that useful, but for some others it could be very handy.
Since tides are fairly well understood and predictable, another possibility with electronic charts (but which I have not seen implemented) is to show real-time water depths based on location and tide condition. One could even have a time slider to show the water depth at a particular time in the future (or past).
For a C-Dory this feature might not be that useful, but for some others it could be very handy.
Currently in the Sea of Cortez, Garmin e-Charts are way off, Navionics mostly right on. A good local cruising guide with charts of anchorages, approach waypoints and pictures is also very useful. No traditional paper charts on Deja La, I carried them for 15 years on our last sailboat, never used them.
island andy
New member
Yes.
We boat in southern Georgian Bay/30,000 islands. The bottom is granite and very unforgiving. In addition, water depths can go from 50' to 1' in the length of the boat. An offsetting advantage is that the water is very clear so shoals can be seen........if the light is right......and if someone is watching......
Therefore, in waters which are not very familiar, whoever is at the helm watches the gps [Raymarine, came w boat], and the other watches the paper charts. Both use eyeballs as well. In my experience, most boaters up there who have intact lower units use a similar approach.
Maybe the results of your survey will be highly dependent on where the respondents do their boating?
andy
We boat in southern Georgian Bay/30,000 islands. The bottom is granite and very unforgiving. In addition, water depths can go from 50' to 1' in the length of the boat. An offsetting advantage is that the water is very clear so shoals can be seen........if the light is right......and if someone is watching......
Therefore, in waters which are not very familiar, whoever is at the helm watches the gps [Raymarine, came w boat], and the other watches the paper charts. Both use eyeballs as well. In my experience, most boaters up there who have intact lower units use a similar approach.
Maybe the results of your survey will be highly dependent on where the respondents do their boating?
andy
Marco Flamingo
Active member
No. No room on board. My biggest flat area is the V berth and a chart would barely fit even if the berth were completely cleaned off, which it never is.
But last year when returning from the Powell River CBGT, I got my chart plotter goofed up with colors reversed, depths in fathoms, etc., so I hit the reset button. It took about 10 minutes to reboot and I realized that I hadn't looked at my compass for months. I was in the middle of the Straights off of Whaletown and I had a bit of vertigo. I had a general idea of south, but I hadn't looked ahead on the plotter at the shoals I would be going through because the plotter would simply show me the way through when I arrived.
With old school compass and chart, there are no battery problems, reception issues, fuses to blow. I realized just how dependent I was on the plotter and that I needed to pay a little more attention to "primary" navigation skills. I could plot course lines with the plotter when at anchor, write down the info in my log, and use my helm compass and a hand bearing compass to follow what I plotted, but I've never taken the time to do that after I got Navionics. It's just "beep" and good to go. Hopefully.
Mark
But last year when returning from the Powell River CBGT, I got my chart plotter goofed up with colors reversed, depths in fathoms, etc., so I hit the reset button. It took about 10 minutes to reboot and I realized that I hadn't looked at my compass for months. I was in the middle of the Straights off of Whaletown and I had a bit of vertigo. I had a general idea of south, but I hadn't looked ahead on the plotter at the shoals I would be going through because the plotter would simply show me the way through when I arrived.
With old school compass and chart, there are no battery problems, reception issues, fuses to blow. I realized just how dependent I was on the plotter and that I needed to pay a little more attention to "primary" navigation skills. I could plot course lines with the plotter when at anchor, write down the info in my log, and use my helm compass and a hand bearing compass to follow what I plotted, but I've never taken the time to do that after I got Navionics. It's just "beep" and good to go. Hopefully.
Mark
Lollygaggin
New member
I'm old fashioned. I still use paper charts, practice DR navigation, plot courses and tracs, and take bearings to determine position. And even with all these precautions I have occasionally been caught off guard and calculated a fix that was quite a few meters off my DR position. Sure beats running aground because of electronic chart error. I guess it just serves to keep me on my toes.
From back packing days and road trips I came to the conclusion that all maps are liars. That is, the map maker had the intention of providing certain information, and succeeded more or less. Users often want moderately different information and use maps more or less successfully. The world and nomenclature change and maps, charts, and even chart plotters get out of date or have errors.
There are fully legal charts, cruising guides with charts up to date but not fully legal, chart plotters, your smart phone, and even a road atlas. They all can be useful for certain things. I always have the first 4 with me, and sometimes wish I had the 5th. Sometimes we are out of cell phone range.
You can lose your electronics and have a fog bank roll in. If you know where you are, have a compass and some sort of map you can steer a course that will lead to safety. I remember fishing with my dad in the 40s. No electronics, no map, and no compass. The fog rolled in. Try to steer a straight course in that! A road map of the Kitsap Penninsula and a boy scout compass would have done just fine.
There are fully legal charts, cruising guides with charts up to date but not fully legal, chart plotters, your smart phone, and even a road atlas. They all can be useful for certain things. I always have the first 4 with me, and sometimes wish I had the 5th. Sometimes we are out of cell phone range.
You can lose your electronics and have a fog bank roll in. If you know where you are, have a compass and some sort of map you can steer a course that will lead to safety. I remember fishing with my dad in the 40s. No electronics, no map, and no compass. The fog rolled in. Try to steer a straight course in that! A road map of the Kitsap Penninsula and a boy scout compass would have done just fine.
We cruised most of the coast of then Yugoslavia--charts were hard to get in the 1980's of those waters. We used a European Road map to ID the harbors, and a guide book which had some of the chartlets. We kept well offshore--We did have a Sat Nav, which gave fairly accurate fixes every 6 to 8 hours...but DR, and visual aids did the trick.
gulfcoast john
New member
We carry paper charts, but have never referred to them in the past 15 years.
On our lower St John's river adventure, the 2013 Garmin Vison SD card (bought on Amazon, prob counterfeit) sometimes showed us on land and depths were universially deeper than on the card. However, there was a major flood event there 6-12 months ago with water levels visible on the tree trunks a good 6-8 feet above current levels, and that could have done a good bit of scouring and changes to the river bed and even course.
Keeping a good lookout and situational awareness is more important than gluing your eyes to the MFD, regardless of brand. That's what we plan on doing when cruising the 30,000 islands in Ontario this summer (and what the Cruising Guides also advise).
In our area (mostly soft sand and mud, you have to search to find a rock) current Garmin E-charts, radar, and Nav info on one 12 inch screen, and engine data and CHIRP sonar on another 12 inch screen at our 30MPH (max) cruise speed makes us very comfortable and feeling safe.
I really don't think it would be humanly possible to be as safe with paper charts and dividers and Dead Reckoning and a sextant and a lead line for depth at the same 30 MPH. Do you?
If an enemy EMP nuke takes out all the GPS satellites, we'll just stop right there the minute they go offline. That would be just the most minor of all our future issues. Same for if my Garmin system goes in Total Failure Mode, which it never has done before.
Yes, I'm an outlier here, and proud of it. So there.
There is a reason almost all Buggy-Whip manufacturers went out of business. Now they sell paper charts (papyrus? that's new! About 4,000 years ago.)
John
On our lower St John's river adventure, the 2013 Garmin Vison SD card (bought on Amazon, prob counterfeit) sometimes showed us on land and depths were universially deeper than on the card. However, there was a major flood event there 6-12 months ago with water levels visible on the tree trunks a good 6-8 feet above current levels, and that could have done a good bit of scouring and changes to the river bed and even course.
Keeping a good lookout and situational awareness is more important than gluing your eyes to the MFD, regardless of brand. That's what we plan on doing when cruising the 30,000 islands in Ontario this summer (and what the Cruising Guides also advise).
In our area (mostly soft sand and mud, you have to search to find a rock) current Garmin E-charts, radar, and Nav info on one 12 inch screen, and engine data and CHIRP sonar on another 12 inch screen at our 30MPH (max) cruise speed makes us very comfortable and feeling safe.
I really don't think it would be humanly possible to be as safe with paper charts and dividers and Dead Reckoning and a sextant and a lead line for depth at the same 30 MPH. Do you?
If an enemy EMP nuke takes out all the GPS satellites, we'll just stop right there the minute they go offline. That would be just the most minor of all our future issues. Same for if my Garmin system goes in Total Failure Mode, which it never has done before.
Yes, I'm an outlier here, and proud of it. So there.
There is a reason almost all Buggy-Whip manufacturers went out of business. Now they sell paper charts (papyrus? that's new! About 4,000 years ago.)
John