Diesel heaters

S

South of Heaven

New member
Im looking for info on the Dickinson and Webasto furnaces. I know some Brats have them.

My new boat has AC with reverse cycle heat. It works great but I cant run it while underway (no generator). So I'm looking for options to extend my cruising season.
 
I know Karl, the former owner of the 22' C-Dory, C Daisy mounted a Webasto heater in his boat. He spoke very highly of it. I think there are pictures of it and the install in his album
 
When "underway" the best option is a "Red dot" heater. There are many brands, but they are very simple and in-expensive. They use the circulating hot water from the engine. If you have a water heater, which heats water, with waste engine heat, tap into that line, and put the "cab" heater in line before the water heater. We had a 25,000 BTU one on the Cal 46, and it heated the main saloon as well as the canvas enclosed cockpit.

If you want a diesel heater when at anchor, then consider one of the circulating hot water, or forced air. The circulating hot water, requires only that you run 2 3/4" hose to each small fan powered radiator. The hot air, such as Espar (good brand) use 3 to 4" diameter air ducts.

For the size and complexity of your boat, you want something more than just a simple one vent heater. You will heat the main saloon, the head and the forward cabin. Far different than a simple c Dory.
 
I did a do-it-yourself install Webasto AirTop 2000 in the Barrel o Monkeys. It worked flawlessly the entire time we had it.
We have a Webasto hydronic heater in the Black Cat. Flawless so far, and it makes hot water.
Both were set up with vents on the forward windows for de-fogging. I can't imagine boating without them.
 
I use a Dickerson Propane heater ....as you can see the fire inside...and it is romantic...and you all know how romantic I am....but I don't think that would be my choice if I were in the far north.... I would want a dedicated heater ... no heater/stove but one of those like the Dodge Vans have...blast furnaces

Joel
SEA3PO
 
I'll probably get shot for saying this but I love my little buddy heater. Just need to make sure you have a window open and a working CO2 monitor. I have never had an issue (it supposedly will shut off due to CO2 and is rated for indoor use) but worth it for safety. Also I have always kept my propane tanks in a plastic tub with a lid. Just in case they leak. I chose (300 dollar delete) to remove the stove that came with my C-Dory as I like to use the grill for cooking and the little buddy heater is so portable and works for me flawlessly. I rather have the counter space.

I also use one of those jet boils for boiling water and coffee and that works well.
H
 
Ordutch1975":1zvm4jf2 said:
I'll probably get shot for saying this but I love my little buddy heater. Just need to make sure you have a window open and a working CO2 monitor. I have never had an issue (it supposedly will shut off due to CO2 and is rated for indoor use) but worth it for safety. Also I have always kept my propane tanks in a plastic tub with a lid. Just in case they leak. I chose (300 dollar delete) to remove the stove that came with my C-Dory as I like to use the grill for cooking and the little buddy heater is so portable and works for me flawlessly. I rather have the counter space.

I also use one of those jet boils for boiling water and coffee and that works well.
H
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I'm thinking you mean CO (carbon monoxide) rather than CO2 (carbon dioxide). Here is what Mr. Buddy has to say. I have used ours indoors with a window open but not while sleeping. I like being confident I will wake up!

 
South of Heaven":3l52n924 said:
Im looking for info on the Dickinson and Webasto furnaces. I know some Brats have them.

My new boat has AC with reverse cycle heat. It works great but I cant run it while underway (no generator). So I'm looking for options to extend my cruising season.
Click to expand...


Check out the Planar 44D-12, I have one I installed in my 25 C-dory last Dec., It now has approx. 1200 flawless hrs. on it.
Similar to the Webasto or Espar .
:thup :wink:
 
I'm thinking you mean CO (carbon monoxide) rather than CO2 (carbon dioxide). Here is what Mr. Buddy has to say. I have used ours indoors with a window open but not while sleeping. I like being confident I will wake up!
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Yes sorry that is what I meant. I find the description funny if you read the use section... You can use it in tents - haha, sleeping people in a very confined space with flammable plastic and a source of extreme heat http://www.mrheater.com/portable-buddy-heater.html

You have to use common sense with anything. But the bottom line is I have never had a negative experience using one of these and as a supplement to his onboard heat it sure seems like a viable option portable option to me. I have never had the CO(not 2 lol) monitor go off or any ill side effects from using it even in my 18fter.

Would I put it in the berth and sleep next to it of course not!
 
I have the Little Buddy heater. It works ok, but if there is not enough fresh air you will know about it soon enough. Also, the Mr Buddy heaters are IR heaters. They warm you (and objects) but do not warm the air that much, so they are not very good for warming up the cabin before you get out of the berth in the morning, or defogging windows. Also, the propane combustion seems to result in more water vapor in the air than some other types of heat.
 
To be safe one should have source of combustion air from the outside and exhaust gas forced out of the boat.

I hear all of these stories of how safe these little heaters are. Unfortunately safety devices fail, and people die. Unfortunately I have had to treat victims of CO poisoning. Some deaths, and some with residual neurological defects.

The household CO monitors were dumbed down about 25 years ago because the fire departments were getting too many "False alarms". Unfortunately the CO gas in the blood with binds with hemoglobin, which carries oxygen in the red blood cells, can bind at a low and commutative level--to give some effects, even below that detected by a CO detector which one normally buys.

The CO detectors have a finite life. Best if replaced every 2 years--five at a maximum. Very few CO monitors are "approved" for Marine use. The standard UL approved alarms go off at 70 ppm – "First level U.L. approved alarms must go off 2-4 hours"

9ppm is the max allowable by EPA over 8 hours!
15-30ppm – First level reported to cause harmful affects(World Health
Organization)
50 ppm The maximum allowable concentration for continuous exposure for healthy adults in any 8 hour period,
200 ppmfirst headaches, malaise, fatigue, dizziness.

If you have cardiac disease angina will appear at 30 ppm!

The NSI 3000 Low level CO monitor is about $110.
The Defender LL6070 low level carbon monoxide monitor (reads at 5 ppm) is about $150.
The DEFENDER CA6150 Carbon Monoxide Detector (reads at 10ppm is about $75.
The Kiddie KN-COPP-B-LPM will detect and store, as low as 11 PPM, and reads as low as 30 ppm. I have gotten those at the hardware stores for less than $30.

Each of us has to make our own decisions. If I was using any of the self contained heaters, I would be using a unit which reads 5 ppm. What is it that they say about the brain???

One real risk, often not considered, is being next to a boat with a generator running all night, or next to a wall, with your generator running.

I have seen significant C O levels from a diesel generator.

Be safe.
 
If I am reading it right, the $150 5PPM Defender unit is a three year and toss unit. The $75 10PPM unit is a ten year and toss. For me, I know myself, it is a 10PPM for ten years.
Bob
 
bobjarrard":v6n9832g said:
If I am reading it right, the $150 5PPM Defender unit is a three year and toss unit. The $75 10PPM unit is a ten year and toss. For me, I know myself, it is a 10PPM for ten years.
Bob
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The information I have is that the $150 5 ppm Defender is good for 5 years. You are correct about the 10 ppm being good for 10 years. If I had a house with central oil heating or wood stove, I would want the 5 ppm unit. There are some shop applications where I think that would be of value--and also an RV or boat where you were running a generator (even diesel) a good deal of the time, especially if at night. The protection is against chronic CO poisoning.
 
A couple of comments:

Typical residential CO detectors are required to have an "end of life" indicator that's hard to ignore (chirping). I would not hesitate to use a residential unit in an enclosed cabin...a detector is mandatory for unvented heaters like the Buddies, in my opinion. But, they are all 120vac, so an inverter would be needed. Also keep in mind that combustion produces water and can produce indoor "rain" and certainly condensation and high humidity.

I think I would also avoid the "darling" of C-Dory owners, the Wallas, and go Webasto/Espar. Those brands can be serviced locally, as most large trucks use them. The Wallas has only one service center, expensive to ship, expensive to repair. Don't know if problem is fixed or not, but many went through expensive circuit boards quickly.

I'm not comfortable with unvented, regardless of fuel type. I have asthma, and doubt they would be good for it. I certainly wouldn't sleep with a Buddy-type heater running all night, even with a window cracked open. Two issues: O2-depletion, and CO build-up. And, undoubtedly made in china, not known for quality-control, to put it mildly.
 
Here is a link which may not be the most current manufacturer counsel on the 5PPM Defender:

http://www.defenderdetectors.com/ll6070.html

And here is some text from the document.

• Because CO sensors typically lose sensitivity over time, it is recommended that this low level and commercial CO monitor be replaced every three years in order to maintain display accuracy as close to specified as possible. The CO monitor must be replaced every three years if compliance with ACGIH, Cal/OSHA or NIOSH is required.

In any case, always better to err on the side of safety even if you CD 25 becomes a CD 22 when fully equipped.

Bob
 
Karl":1eeps7v5 said:
A couple of comments:
I would not hesitate to use a residential unit in an enclosed cabin...a detector is mandatory for unvented heaters like the Buddies, in my opinion. But, they are all 120vac, so an inverter would be needed.
.
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Karl, The Kiddie KN-COPP-B-LPM runs on 3 AA batteries--not 110 volts AC mains power. But keep in mind that these are one for dumbed down household standards of ANSI/UL 2034. The alarm thresholds, set by CO concentration measured in parts per million (ppm), are: no alarm below 30 ppm until after 30 days; 70 ppm for one to four hours (but not less than one hour); 150 ppm for 10 to 50 minutes; 400 ppm for four to 15 minutes.

Karl does make a good point ref point of manufacture. In the past I have suggested CO experts model which has been used in airplane cockpits. Recently the CO experts has not performed up to specs, and the owner of the company has passed on. I don't know if that relates to point of manufacture or not.

I have not tested any of the CO testers--there are ways to do this, and when I was chief OSHA officer at Cal State LB, standards were used for multiple gas detections, and sensors checked on a regular basis.
 
Hi all, some grist for the mill:
First, liquid fueled,
https://refleks-olieovne.dk/en/
And then, solid fueled:
https://cubicminiwoodstoves.com/

I have been a boater for 50+ years, had all kinds of heaters and know they can all be dangerous, not work well, be hard to start, difficult to service, expensive to buy, prone to fail at the worst time, expensive to feed/fuel, not the favored fuel type as one travels area to area, and in many cases, not worth the effort to get some hear when you can dress more warmly and use a good sleeping bad. That being said, I hate:
dripping overheads
mold/mildew (can be more harmful than some vapors)
steamed up windows
wet bedding and cushions
No easy decisions sometimes in boating.
Bob
 
We had a SS wood/charcoal/coal burning stove on our 38 foot sailboat, which we had built. The idea was to pick up drift wood, but we had a few lumps of coal, and some charcoal to get it going. The problem was with driftwood it was saturated with salt. Coal was not readily available along the West Coast of the US, or in Hawaii! Charcoal in even medium quantities had its own problems. The stove was very similar to the Dickinson Solid fuel Newport--maybe not quite as fancy or well built. It required a 3" stove pipe, which required the deck fitting with a hole about 5" diameter in the cabin overhead,, and a waterproof cap for when we were sailing--and then a Charlie Noble for the extended stack when we were at anchor. The small blazing fire was romantic, and we could heat a small pot water on the top surface. Disposing of the ashes was an issue--and that was the last attempt we made at a wood/coal stove for a boat! More work and issues than it was worth.
 
thataway":2wckpvup said:
Karl, The Kiddie KN-COPP-B-LPM runs on 3 AA batteries--not 110 volts AC mains power. But keep in mind that these are one for dumbed down household standards of ANSI/UL 2034. The alarm thresholds, set by CO concentration measured in parts per million (ppm), are: no alarm below 30 ppm until after 30 days; 70 ppm for one to four hours (but not less than one hour); 150 ppm for 10 to 50 minutes; 400 ppm for four to 15 minutes.

Karl does make a good point ref point of manufacture. In the past I have suggested CO experts model which has been used in airplane cockpits. Recently the CO experts has not performed up to specs, and the owner of the company has passed on. I don't know if that relates to point of manufacture or not.

I have not tested any of the CO testers--there are ways to do this, and when I was chief OSHA officer at Cal State LB, standards were used for multiple gas detections, and sensors checked on a regular basis.
Click to expand...

Appreciate the correction...I have not seen battery-powered ones. I have one plug-in at home, was not required (or available) when house was built. It's in master bedroom suite, adjacent to garage, and has never shown anything but 0.00ppm...made in you-know-where. Probably false sense of security.

I worked for an environmental testing company for a few years before becoming a cop, and our detection equipment was multi-thousand-dollar stuff...one required a tank of hydrogen to function...not Walmart items. We did met studies, too, using radiosonde balloons, and had an 800' tower at one site...relied on contract climbers to replace sensors, no fun in February in Northern NYS, but contract required 98% data recovery. Data recording was with pen/ink strip-chart recorders...long gone as digital took over.
 
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