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Depth Sounder
- Thread starter Ray Roth
- Start date
There is certainly no requirement to use a thru hull installation as a matter of fact I would advice against it for a craft of your/our size.Ray Roth":3ufovpbv said:Howdy,,
Does anyone have any tips / help on brands and most importantly installation of a depth sounder on a 19' angler ????
Is a through hull necessary // what are my options ??
Regards,
Ray Roth
There are many thoughts and ideas in the installation process, but most of us mount externally on the transom. When you buy the unit the instructions will come with it for the transducer as to the elevation and the position which is a subject in it's self. I used the screws that came with it and the appropriate caulking compound and Bob's your uncle. Boat dealers do the same install as I did. Or you can make it difficult and drill larger holes - undercut and fill with epoxy - re-drill the epoxy with a drill bit sized to root screw diameter - caulk again and that's it - or look up that procedure on the net -- or C-Brat--search etc.
SounderSolutions
New member
Ray Roth":1djs0dok said:Howdy,,
Does anyone have any tips / help on brands and most importantly installation of a depth sounder on a 19' angler ????
Is a through hull necessary // what are my options ??
Ray,
Budget and available space are generally the primary constraints when selecting a fish finder (i'm assuming you want more than a Fathometer).
Next you need to determine what you want it to do. Do you want/need high frequency side/down scan or is the standard 50/83/200kHz sufficient. Do you intend to run CHIRP at some point? Broadband or standard Continuous Wave (CW)?
As for the brands I would recommend, Lowrance HDS units give the most bang for the buck for an entry level unit and can be upgraded along the way. Garmin is coming along but lack some features that I like, (scroll back, expansion, and display resolution). The brands get better from there such as SIMRAD and Furuno.
There are also peripherals to consider like RADAR, GPS, weather, AIS, and even satellite radio. For the basics, RADAR and GPS, Raymarine comes with RADAR overlay on the chart where Lowrance requires an additional heading sensor (sold separately).
My best advice is to head down to the local marine store and start looking at units and asking questions. Do not let the salesman get away with 'it works great', make them explain it to your satisfaction and understanding. You can also shoot me a PM and I'll provide my phone number to answer your questions if need be.
Enjoy the hunt!
I wonder if you are looking for a fish finder or just something to give you water depth? I like Garmin's products which have a number of small relatively inexpensive GPS units that will provide a bread crumb trail (a track of where you have been) and water depth, show fish and in some cases the surface temperature of the water with a paddle wheel to get you a rough idea of your speed and speed over ground along with GPS.
The Garmin echo map 43 dv seems to be a decent pick if you are looking for a small unit with a decent feature set. It has a transom mount transducer. They are advertised at www.thegpsstore.com store for $299.00 with free shipping. Some folks add a mounting plate to mount the transducer to in case it needs to be moved. The method would be to drill oversized holes fill with epoxy and then after the epoxy hardens drill the hole for the fastening screws into the epoxy for mounting the plate so you transoms core does not have a chance of water intrusion mount plate and screw the transducer to the plate.
D.D.
The Garmin echo map 43 dv seems to be a decent pick if you are looking for a small unit with a decent feature set. It has a transom mount transducer. They are advertised at www.thegpsstore.com store for $299.00 with free shipping. Some folks add a mounting plate to mount the transducer to in case it needs to be moved. The method would be to drill oversized holes fill with epoxy and then after the epoxy hardens drill the hole for the fastening screws into the epoxy for mounting the plate so you transoms core does not have a chance of water intrusion mount plate and screw the transducer to the plate.
D.D.
Robert H. Wilkinson
New member
If its an in dash type dedicated depth gauge/alarm your looking for Faria has had a ton of problems over the last few years. Stingray, Chaparral and other builders used them and if you look on their owners forum there is page after page full of complaints. The one on my boat did not even work when new. During our sea trial the dealer could not even get it to work. It still took 4 years of complaining to get it replaced under warranty! Some owners have had problems with the thru hull as well.
Regards, Rob
Regards, Rob
As you're reading, there are transom mount transducers so a through hull transducer isn't the only way to go. I know of three common ways to get the signal into the water:
1) True through hull
2) "shoots through the hull" (mounted inside, shoots through dense hard surface such as fiberglass, but not through core; so you need to have, or make, an un-cored area) (These do not do water temperature or speed through the water AFAIK)
3) Transom mounted (i.e. outside boat)
I have the #3 type. However there are still mounting options, as mentioned above. You can essentially "hang it from a stick" and then have no holes below the waterline (obviously has to be rigid, etc.). Or you can mount it to the transom in the area where it does the job. Closing out the core in the holes takes more time initially, but it's what I'm comfortable with. That's an individual decision though.
What I did (as one example - there are many ways) is mount a Starboard™ block to the transom. I drilled a hole in the outer fiberglass skin, then "reached in" with tools and removed quite a bit of core (so there is more hollowed out area than just the hole diameter), then filled with thickened epoxy back to a hole-free, flush surface. I then tapped those epoxy plugs for bronze machine screws. I used those screws to fasten the Starboard block to the hull. Now I can fasten transducer(s) to the Starboard block, adjust them to work better, add/subtract, etc. without changing the original mounting holes in the transom that I made. I can also replace the Starboard block if I ever want to, and mount the new one to the same holes.
1) True through hull
2) "shoots through the hull" (mounted inside, shoots through dense hard surface such as fiberglass, but not through core; so you need to have, or make, an un-cored area) (These do not do water temperature or speed through the water AFAIK)
3) Transom mounted (i.e. outside boat)
I have the #3 type. However there are still mounting options, as mentioned above. You can essentially "hang it from a stick" and then have no holes below the waterline (obviously has to be rigid, etc.). Or you can mount it to the transom in the area where it does the job. Closing out the core in the holes takes more time initially, but it's what I'm comfortable with. That's an individual decision though.
What I did (as one example - there are many ways) is mount a Starboard™ block to the transom. I drilled a hole in the outer fiberglass skin, then "reached in" with tools and removed quite a bit of core (so there is more hollowed out area than just the hole diameter), then filled with thickened epoxy back to a hole-free, flush surface. I then tapped those epoxy plugs for bronze machine screws. I used those screws to fasten the Starboard block to the hull. Now I can fasten transducer(s) to the Starboard block, adjust them to work better, add/subtract, etc. without changing the original mounting holes in the transom that I made. I can also replace the Starboard block if I ever want to, and mount the new one to the same holes.
In the last two years I've been lucky enough to get into a few of the new sonar rigs at work. The garmin rig I have is not the newest stuff though.
I have a very spendy Furuno setup that is excellent, and triedn Humminbird's newest sidescan and 360.
I just upgraded my sonar last year and decided not to use any of it, and go with a Lowrance HDS7 Gen 2 touch. No regrets at all. I have a standalone unit with sidescan/downscan and standard transom mount transducers.
I would get the same thing if I had to replace ANY of the sonar I use, at work or on my boat.
I'd be happy to answer specific questions about any, but for my CD, the lowrance rig had everything I wanted at the right price point, and is considerably upgradeable by adding sonar hub, spotlight, wifi, etc etc. With an extra $800 (in increments) get upgraded to CHIRP (~$600 black box), and operate the unit via smartphone or tablet (~$200).
My $0.02.
I have a very spendy Furuno setup that is excellent, and triedn Humminbird's newest sidescan and 360.
I just upgraded my sonar last year and decided not to use any of it, and go with a Lowrance HDS7 Gen 2 touch. No regrets at all. I have a standalone unit with sidescan/downscan and standard transom mount transducers.
I would get the same thing if I had to replace ANY of the sonar I use, at work or on my boat.
I'd be happy to answer specific questions about any, but for my CD, the lowrance rig had everything I wanted at the right price point, and is considerably upgradeable by adding sonar hub, spotlight, wifi, etc etc. With an extra $800 (in increments) get upgraded to CHIRP (~$600 black box), and operate the unit via smartphone or tablet (~$200).
My $0.02.
There are a number of brands which are all excellent. There are some very expensive, and some very cheap units. My personal feeling is that Garmin is easiest to use, and especially if you are going to use a chart plotter. (the cost for a pure DS, vs chart plotter is minimal.
I happen to like the drill holes into the hulls, secure a Starboard Block, and then screw the external transom type depth sounder to that block. On my 22 I have two two Transducers put in this eay. With the starboard block, you can easily move the mount if it is not precisely where you want it. Many advantages to the Starboard block mount--and no damage to the transom of the boat.
Lowrance makes a very good unit, as does the slightly more expensive, but higher quality Simrad from basically the same company.
I happen to like the drill holes into the hulls, secure a Starboard Block, and then screw the external transom type depth sounder to that block. On my 22 I have two two Transducers put in this eay. With the starboard block, you can easily move the mount if it is not precisely where you want it. Many advantages to the Starboard block mount--and no damage to the transom of the boat.
Lowrance makes a very good unit, as does the slightly more expensive, but higher quality Simrad from basically the same company.
If you wanna use starboard which is the same stuff stern saver uses you don't need to drill holes to secure it to the hull. All you need to do to make your own stern saver type mount is bore six holes about a 1/4" deep into the back/side that goes against the hull. Use West Systems two part epoxy which is what comes with the Stern Saver in different packaging. Fill the holes with the epoxy and set in place with the blue painters tape. Be sure to scuff both surfaces up. If you choose to go this route check Stern Savers videos and website for precise instructions on how to mount the product. Or just buy the product which is what i did. It's worth it and you can adjust the transducer as needed. Why drill extra holes in your hull if you don't need to. Have had it on my boat for two years and never has come loose for those who think epoxy does not bond to starboard but the key is those bored holes. Also never had the need to move my transducer to a different location but if you do then using screws is probably better I suppose. Good luck.
Haliman, Thanks for bringing up the "Stern Saver". I have been using HDPE in this type of application many years( I first used this technique on an Avon RIB in 1992, but I used epoxy plugs and screws, as well as adhesives ) before the Stern Saver was invented (about 2011). There are not just six 1/4" holes, and the material may or may not be West Systems epoxy re-branded (I would not be surprised that it was G Flex (rebranded, since he specifically mentions 3000 PSI and G flex is 3444 PSI. Most of the West Epoxy are over 6000 PSI (such as 105/205. There some good reasons that G Flex or similar product would be better than the
Here is what is done in the Stern Saver patent holders own words:
I don't know if he flame treats the Starboard aft surface--that is one trick of using epoxy or 5200 that I have used, and it increases the adherence of 5200 and adhesives. I have used Dove Tail cuts on Starboard, and it has the same effect as the bored, threaded holes. I have not compared, the strength, but suspect it may be stronger than his threaded holes. (made with a blind tap)--more surface area in a dove tail cut.
Drilling the holes, under cutting and filling with epoxy does avoid any potential damage to the transom. I should have made that clear in my post-- A bad assumption on my part, that all had understood the way that any hole in the transom (or any cored laminate) must have an epoxy plug.
Maybe I should just use G Flex, and the HDPE, flame treated, without screws--I just feel better with expensive transducers, having some solid fastener.
All you need to do to make your own stern saver type mount is bore six holes about a 1/4" deep into the back/side that goes against the hull. Use West Systems two part epoxy which is what comes with the Stern Saver in different packaging.
Here is what is done in the Stern Saver patent holders own words:
It's not just any ol piece of starboard. If you look closely at the pictures you will see the six holes are tapped with threads. When you fill the holes to the brim with my super special glue (not Liquid Nails or even PL Premium) and stick it on your boat the glue cures and forms solid screws that interlock with the threads in the holes. My glue is the strongest, best stuff on the planet for this application (3000 PSI pull resistance). It's made for marine use and even cures under water.
I don't know if he flame treats the Starboard aft surface--that is one trick of using epoxy or 5200 that I have used, and it increases the adherence of 5200 and adhesives. I have used Dove Tail cuts on Starboard, and it has the same effect as the bored, threaded holes. I have not compared, the strength, but suspect it may be stronger than his threaded holes. (made with a blind tap)--more surface area in a dove tail cut.
Drilling the holes, under cutting and filling with epoxy does avoid any potential damage to the transom. I should have made that clear in my post-- A bad assumption on my part, that all had understood the way that any hole in the transom (or any cored laminate) must have an epoxy plug.
Maybe I should just use G Flex, and the HDPE, flame treated, without screws--I just feel better with expensive transducers, having some solid fastener.
Thanks Bob and yes there is more too it than just the holes that's why I pointed out to watch and read about how they/Stern Saver says to install. And you are correct about the G-Flex. I am pretty sure, but just a guess that it is G-Flex that comes with Stern Saver. Also did forget to mention the holes are threaded as you pointed out. That gives the epoxy something too grab on too.
Cheers!!
Cheers!!
Lollygaggin
New member
For the transom mount transducer; how do you folks fill the oversize holes with epoxy? On my last boat I drilled the oversize hole, taped the transom side of the hole off, and injected the epoxy, with a syringe, through the tape at the top part of the hole. I felt like I was all thumbs and wonder if there's a more professional way of doing it.
Lollygaggin":1azim434 said:...how do you folks fill the oversize holes with epoxy?
First I either "paint on" neat epoxy, or sometimes inject it with a syringe, let it soak in a bit, then suck it back out. Of course the neat epoxy is not much of a challenge.
For the thickened epoxy, I have a variety of ways I use, depending on the hole. I presume you are talking about holes you want to completely fill here, then re-drill after curing.
If possible, I arrange it so I can have an air-release hole high up (this can be tiny) and the fill hole down low -- same idea as when filling the lower unit on an outboard. Epoxy goes in low, air comes out high, and the hole gets completely filled with no voids.
With "blind" holes, it gets trickier (i.e. holes with only one opening). The "worst" is something like an oversized and undercut transom hole, because you have an unvented "cave" up high in the hole and that just loves to trap air. I tackle this in a couple of different ways, situation dependent. If I have "room" in a place where it won't show later (say it's under a flange, or behind the fuel tanks or etc.), then I try to drill a small air hole somewhere (the epoxy then fills it as part of the whole filling operation).
If I can't do any of that, but am stuck with blind holes with "upper caves" -- I had this situation with the holes for attaching my trim tab planes -- then I do one of two things: Either I put a small piece of tubing in the hole up high and try to get the air to come out that way (tends to clog), or, more reliably but more messy, I have a cup standing by to catch the overflow and just pump epoxy in like mad, letting it continue to flow back out into the cup. This tends to "flush" the air out, and I then use the epoxy from the cup to reload my syringe for the next hole.
****
For big holes (like a hatch), where I'm only filling in the perimeter, I use either a syringe, a "spatula" made of a cut up milk jug (can make any shape that way), or I load up a baggie and cut off one corner like a cake decorating tool and use it like a disposable/malleable syringe.
I've probably forgotten a few things, and I'm sure others have different/inventive ways too.
Sunbeam
Buy as many vertical pixels as you can afford. Horizontal pixels are unimportant as they are just history. Example: if you have a 320 pixel display and are fishing in 300 feet of water, you have one pixel representing one foot of water. It will take a darn big fish to get much of a return.
Get a color monitor as fish (salmon) that don't pump up their bladders much usually return a softer echo (different color) than fish with large air bladders which return a hard echo. If you get a monochrome you won't be able to tell the subtle differences.
Transducer is the most important. 300 watts won't be able to penetrate saltwater as there is to much marine growth. 600 watts is minimum. Divide Lowrance wattage numbers by 8 to get RMS numbers that the other mfgs. use. Beam width is very important and will take to much time to explain in this forum. Besides I'm a terrible typist. Short story, narrow beams if you're a bottom fisherman and wider beams if you troll. Many transducers have dual frequency beams. I'm not sure about the new chirp units. I think they may be over rated and use a computer chip to draw fish arches like the units that draw cute like fish pictures. Just remember, the wider the beam, the more your power is spread out which will make soft targets (salmon) harder to see.
Vertical pixels and picking out the right transducer for the type of fishing you like is the most important. Learn about transducers before you plunk down your cash.
Get a color monitor as fish (salmon) that don't pump up their bladders much usually return a softer echo (different color) than fish with large air bladders which return a hard echo. If you get a monochrome you won't be able to tell the subtle differences.
Transducer is the most important. 300 watts won't be able to penetrate saltwater as there is to much marine growth. 600 watts is minimum. Divide Lowrance wattage numbers by 8 to get RMS numbers that the other mfgs. use. Beam width is very important and will take to much time to explain in this forum. Besides I'm a terrible typist. Short story, narrow beams if you're a bottom fisherman and wider beams if you troll. Many transducers have dual frequency beams. I'm not sure about the new chirp units. I think they may be over rated and use a computer chip to draw fish arches like the units that draw cute like fish pictures. Just remember, the wider the beam, the more your power is spread out which will make soft targets (salmon) harder to see.
Vertical pixels and picking out the right transducer for the type of fishing you like is the most important. Learn about transducers before you plunk down your cash.