dogon dory
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Definition of C-Worthy
- Thread starter dogon dory
- Start date
Great subject, but one that can't be covered by a single definition. The Titanic was certainly seaworthy, but the skipper was not worthy of the seas in which he was sailing.
A C-Dory is certainly seaworthy, under the conditions that a reasonable and prudent skipper would take her out in the open seas.
Each ship or boat is designed to meet a particular set of needs, and every boat is a compromise of one kind or another. In some cases, seaworthiness is compromised for speed, in others, speed is compromised for stability, and so forth.
There are degrees of seaworthiness, from huge ocean-going vessels to Coast Guard surf boats to C-Dory Cruisers. The worthiness of the skipper determines whether the boat will be taken beyond its capabilities. And that can often be challenged by unexpected conditions.
No arguments, just no simple single line definition.
A one-liner that might meet your needs is "A vessel that will remain afloat and upright, with all its occupants safe, under any condition that ever has been or ever will be presented by the sea".
Ken
A C-Dory is certainly seaworthy, under the conditions that a reasonable and prudent skipper would take her out in the open seas.
Each ship or boat is designed to meet a particular set of needs, and every boat is a compromise of one kind or another. In some cases, seaworthiness is compromised for speed, in others, speed is compromised for stability, and so forth.
There are degrees of seaworthiness, from huge ocean-going vessels to Coast Guard surf boats to C-Dory Cruisers. The worthiness of the skipper determines whether the boat will be taken beyond its capabilities. And that can often be challenged by unexpected conditions.
No arguments, just no simple single line definition.
A one-liner that might meet your needs is "A vessel that will remain afloat and upright, with all its occupants safe, under any condition that ever has been or ever will be presented by the sea".
Ken
Captains Cat
New member
KenMcC":1jhwlqkd said:A one-liner that might meet your needs is "A vessel that will remain afloat and upright, with all its occupants safe, under any condition that ever has been or ever will be presented by the sea".
Ken
Ken, good thoughts. IMHO, I'd modify your last sentence to say
"A vessel that will remain afloat and upright, with all its occupants safe, under any condition you may choose to go out in and use prudence in doing so!"
I don't think there is one that will meet your conditions, you probably don't either!! :wink:
Charlie
A cork or a barrel is exteremely "Seaworthy".
I would add to the defination, "keep the occupants in safety under the worst conditions to be encounted on a voyage".
The C Dory line, are much like corks. They continue to float on top of the water, instead of burying as many boats do. But, they could capsize or be flooded in extreme conditions of breaking waves. They are of limited range.
Very definately the skill of the skipper will have an influence on the outcome of any voyage, but even the most skilled boater would have a very tough time in an open bow rider, or aluminum fishing skiff with 8 to 10 foot breaking seas at frequent intervals, and 50 knots of wind.
I would add to the defination, "keep the occupants in safety under the worst conditions to be encounted on a voyage".
The C Dory line, are much like corks. They continue to float on top of the water, instead of burying as many boats do. But, they could capsize or be flooded in extreme conditions of breaking waves. They are of limited range.
Very definately the skill of the skipper will have an influence on the outcome of any voyage, but even the most skilled boater would have a very tough time in an open bow rider, or aluminum fishing skiff with 8 to 10 foot breaking seas at frequent intervals, and 50 knots of wind.
dogon dory":tlyzxsw0 said:<stuff clipped>
So let's hear it. What is seaworthy?
It all depends on how you prop it....
Seriously though, I think you have to look at the WHOLE system including the person at the helm. An idiot can sink any boat and a smart and experienced helmsman will be smart enough to stay out of conditions his/her boat shouldn't be in. I can honestly say that my 22 has always been capable of handling whatever I throw at it PLUS unexpected (within reasonable limits - e.g. the unexpected but not the ridiculously unexpected). However, that's because I pick my weather windows carefully, leave situations before they get bad and focus on redundant everything. Sure I take my 22' "offshore" - BUT I'm within 30 miles of port, I pick my times to avoid large winds and waves, I leave with plenty of fuel and redundant navigation and communication systems and I try to think through many of the worst case, "what-if" scenarios. I also took apart and resealed every through hull, added extra bilge capacity, always wear my self inflating life vest and have a mustang bomber style jacket I can put on that will help hold in heat. The 22' CD is a very safe boat, 20-30 miles offshore but it's not just the boat that's safe. It's me, additional gear and a collection of anal retentive habits.
dogon dory
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Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author
1TUBERIDER
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Hi Brats
I believe we can all identify an unseaworthy vessel. If can show signs of neglect, lack of care or just bad design. Cdory vessels can also be unseaworthy if not maintained.
A seaworthy vessel will be reliable. You have done your maintenance and checked systems. Reducing the chances of being dead in the water is part of being seaworthy.
A seaworthy vessel still has limits. The coast guard 25 ft safe boat has operating limits of seas under 6 ft, winds under 25 knts and the vessel you assist under 28 ft. Even the larger CG vessels have operating limits and it is a no go if conditions exceed the limits.
So seaworthy vessels should have limits. Skippers skills can override the limits but the limits should be recognized. Conditions change and the next thing you know is that you might be in more than you want to be.
Don't forget about your crew. They also have limits. As skipper I make sure their comfort is my main concern and I will abort a mission to take care of my crew.
Living in a small coastal community I have seen plenty of unseaworthy vessels and folks still take them out. They just go because the fish are biting. I have assisted many distressed vessels. I enjoy helping others. but if I assist someone in an unseaworthy vessel, we talk about it on the long tow back plus I will have them inspected when I dock them.
I see seaworthy vessels in all sizes 14ft and up. They just all have different limits.
Safe boating
1tuberider
I believe we can all identify an unseaworthy vessel. If can show signs of neglect, lack of care or just bad design. Cdory vessels can also be unseaworthy if not maintained.
A seaworthy vessel will be reliable. You have done your maintenance and checked systems. Reducing the chances of being dead in the water is part of being seaworthy.
A seaworthy vessel still has limits. The coast guard 25 ft safe boat has operating limits of seas under 6 ft, winds under 25 knts and the vessel you assist under 28 ft. Even the larger CG vessels have operating limits and it is a no go if conditions exceed the limits.
So seaworthy vessels should have limits. Skippers skills can override the limits but the limits should be recognized. Conditions change and the next thing you know is that you might be in more than you want to be.
Don't forget about your crew. They also have limits. As skipper I make sure their comfort is my main concern and I will abort a mission to take care of my crew.
Living in a small coastal community I have seen plenty of unseaworthy vessels and folks still take them out. They just go because the fish are biting. I have assisted many distressed vessels. I enjoy helping others. but if I assist someone in an unseaworthy vessel, we talk about it on the long tow back plus I will have them inspected when I dock them.
I see seaworthy vessels in all sizes 14ft and up. They just all have different limits.
Safe boating
1tuberider
Jack in Alaska
New member
I totally agree with Roger.
My experience is that I have never been scared on my boat. Concerned and extra careful for sure but not scared. My wife and a few passengers have been but I believe they were more uncomfortable than scared. They always go out again with me.
I never leave shore w/o full fuel tanks, in rough weather, if the forecast is not good or if there is ANYTHING questionable as to working condition.
Unexpected weather has come up while out but keeping a cool head, having the previous knowledge to deal with it and having a CD which in my opinion is an extremely safe and good performing boat is a wonderful thing to have.
Jack in Alaska but wintering in Az.(>:
My experience is that I have never been scared on my boat. Concerned and extra careful for sure but not scared. My wife and a few passengers have been but I believe they were more uncomfortable than scared. They always go out again with me.
I never leave shore w/o full fuel tanks, in rough weather, if the forecast is not good or if there is ANYTHING questionable as to working condition.
Unexpected weather has come up while out but keeping a cool head, having the previous knowledge to deal with it and having a CD which in my opinion is an extremely safe and good performing boat is a wonderful thing to have.
Jack in Alaska but wintering in Az.(>:
Not For Hire
New member
I am not sure of the phrase's origin but I have always liked the term "well found vessel." As in "I saw the prettiest little boat at the docks the other day, she was blue and white and a well found vessel." I think the phrase implies some seaworthiness, some upkeep, some suitability for the area, some proper outfitting, etc.
Calling my boat a well found vessel is good for free coffee, at least.
Regards,
Mark
Calling my boat a well found vessel is good for free coffee, at least.
Regards,
Mark
matt_unique
New member
Capn Jack":3lpy561o said:My wife put a framing on the wall of my den to remind me;
A Superior Sailor Is Best Defined As One
Who Uses His Superior Judgement To Keep
Out Of Situations Requiring The Use Of His
Superior Skills.
In her words, "Boating should be fun, not terrifying". :wink
Great quote....and very applicable to boating, diving, flying, etc.
Flagold makes an interesting comparison - what makes an airplane "airworthy"?
The simple answer is whether you can use the "vehicle" - boat or plane - under normal conditions, without greatly risking life or limb. But unlike with boats, airplanes further refine the definition for apporpriate use such as their ability to deal with adverse conditions like iceing.
The simple answer is whether you can use the "vehicle" - boat or plane - under normal conditions, without greatly risking life or limb. But unlike with boats, airplanes further refine the definition for apporpriate use such as their ability to deal with adverse conditions like iceing.
When I was flying small planes, the phrase went something like this:
"A crash is an event that occurs when a pilot runs out of airspeed, altitude, and ideas all at the same time."
I would define a sinking as when the boat and skipper become unseaworthy at the same time. I suspect as in airplanes, it's never a single event that makes both the skipper and boat unseaworthy at the same time, but a chain of events that results in a boat on the bottom.
The last sinking I was involved in certainly showed this:
a. The hull was a salmon skiff used for more than 20 years on the beaches of the Cook Inlet.
b. It was modified with a windshield and other parts not to mention two 115 HP four strokes.
c. The hull had never been inspected closely
d. The bilge pump didn't work and they knew it.
A boat that weathered 4-6 seas to get to where they were anchored sank on calm night in 25 feet of water because the bilge pump didn't work while the skipper was sleeping in a tent on the beach.
It could have been a cracked weld or a bad drain plug or maybe even the rain through the night. All they know is the boat was on the bottom when they woke up.
"A crash is an event that occurs when a pilot runs out of airspeed, altitude, and ideas all at the same time."
I would define a sinking as when the boat and skipper become unseaworthy at the same time. I suspect as in airplanes, it's never a single event that makes both the skipper and boat unseaworthy at the same time, but a chain of events that results in a boat on the bottom.
The last sinking I was involved in certainly showed this:
a. The hull was a salmon skiff used for more than 20 years on the beaches of the Cook Inlet.
b. It was modified with a windshield and other parts not to mention two 115 HP four strokes.
c. The hull had never been inspected closely
d. The bilge pump didn't work and they knew it.
A boat that weathered 4-6 seas to get to where they were anchored sank on calm night in 25 feet of water because the bilge pump didn't work while the skipper was sleeping in a tent on the beach.
It could have been a cracked weld or a bad drain plug or maybe even the rain through the night. All they know is the boat was on the bottom when they woke up.
Well, there's one more thing that is necessary for an aircraft to be airworthy - the required annual inspection (more frequently on Part 135 and scheduled aircraft). An A&P mechanic (certified by the FAA) has to sign his name that the plane is airworthy. The aircraft and pilot have to be certified/licensed to fly in instrument conditions. Some aircraft can be certified for "known icing" with the proper equipment. I'm not up on ultralight aircraft, homebuilts, or the recreational license (or sport or whatever it is called).
We have something similar in the boating realm, with "inspected" vessels, but small craft like ours are left up to our discretion to decide whether they are seaworthy or not. There are some things that boats and airplanes (and those who operate them) have in common, but the requirements for licensing and determining their "worthiness" to operate are quite different.
But, the danger involved for either if not "worthy" can be just as deadly.
In my opinion, we have a lot more freedom on the water... there are far fewer "controlled" areas. When operating in low visibility conditions, there is no equivalence to Air Traffic Control to keep you apart from other vessels. We can file a float plan, but it doesn't go to any central control agency... can you imagine what our skies would be like if the flight plan consisted of "tell your Mom where you're going and when you'll be back"??? :shock:
Best wishes,
Jim B.
We have something similar in the boating realm, with "inspected" vessels, but small craft like ours are left up to our discretion to decide whether they are seaworthy or not. There are some things that boats and airplanes (and those who operate them) have in common, but the requirements for licensing and determining their "worthiness" to operate are quite different.
But, the danger involved for either if not "worthy" can be just as deadly.
In my opinion, we have a lot more freedom on the water... there are far fewer "controlled" areas. When operating in low visibility conditions, there is no equivalence to Air Traffic Control to keep you apart from other vessels. We can file a float plan, but it doesn't go to any central control agency... can you imagine what our skies would be like if the flight plan consisted of "tell your Mom where you're going and when you'll be back"??? :shock:
Best wishes,
Jim B.