crusing the trent severn

[journey on]

I submit that there are many laws passed for which no funds are allocated. That and Canada as a whole has scant pump-out facilities.

We've cruised Canada off and on for more than a decade and no one has checked our head for compliance with the laws. This includes the Trent-Severn. We use the pump outs when available, which is rarely, but when the holding tank is full we take appropriate measures.

Interesting discussion, but I wouldn't base my ability to cruise anywhere in Canada on any the toilet regulations. As a matter of fact, a portable toilet makes more sense than a fixed head with no pump outs.

Boris

 

[gulfcoast john]

Jeff,
We retire July 24 and after that all is open to anything. We might cruise the Chesapeake on the way up or back. We might attend the Meet in the Middle Miss gathering the week after Labor Day and cruise the upper portions before or after. We can make 500-600 miles per day at 60-62MPH.
Colby/Harvey/Casey et al:
We haven't been to the TSW yet, but we have toured western Canada including the Jasper Ice Fields, Banf 4pm Tea, Edmonton, Waterton/Glacier parks and many others.
Canada is not North Korea or even Singapore (the latter you should visit, but carefully comply with all regs and rules, including never spitting on a sidewalk). Canada wants tourists and they want tourists to spend money locally. The TSW is/was a total failure as a commercial transport enterprise, as pointed out on their own website. It’s not the Panama Canal or even the St. Lawrence Seaway. It’s only value is in attracting local and tourist boaters to experience it. Locals alone wouldn’t keep it open. We found all of the Western Canada tourist meccas to be very friendly, efficient, fast and non-judgmental. I have read about the TSW in the boating rags for decades, and NEVER read anything about Gestapo Porti-Potti police hassling boats or causing any trouble for quiet peaceful tourists. Word would get around.
Dave basically confirms this in his prev posting about it not being an issue (granted, he’s on a R-27).
My opinion does not guarantee that some tourists who just completed a hard paddle and quietly sip a beer at the end of the journey on their kayaks won’t be challenged by a Barney Fife type new on the beat. But if he’s nearing retirement age, and has a porta-potti on his own boat so he won’t have to go to the washroom off the wall at 0300, he’s not likely to hassle you unless you’re dumping it into the waterway.
If we had a 22 with a porta-potti I wouldn’t hesitate an instant in doing this adventure. I hope the PM’S to Casey/Colby confirm my instincts.
Harvey, see Dave’s TinyTown pics with boats rafted up in the locks. If rafted, you don’t need 2 linehandlers. (For an 8ft lock, who needs any linehandler). I bet a local or extra crew on another boat would be your ‘crew’ when needed. We’re all just those kind of folks!
I haven’t even been there, but I feel like I’m cheerleading!
We can do this! (22’s and up if crossing Lake Simcoe).
Happy Boating!
John

 

[Robert H. Wilkinson]

So for those of you who have been through, practically speaking, is it feasible to single-hand a 22? Is there any kind of enforcement applied to those who do single hand, if in fact is really is Illegal? Whats the real scoop?

Harvey, first I've ever heard of this! The lock staff may not want to encourage people to single hand over the phone, but you can do it(many do). The larger shipping locks have restrictions - for example the Welland Canal requires 2 crew members and I think a 30' minimum. I am not aware of any such restrictions on the T/S. Just about any day we were locking through we would see at least 1 or more boats single handing. The lock staff were always happy to assist if you needed it and as mentioned at the top of lock. Heights on the conventional locks vary from 4' at Rosedale to a lift of 47' at Swift Rapids(where they are in a control tower and talk to you via loudspeaker).

In my photo album you may have noticed we traveled in a 3 boat group from Hastings to Campbellford. The Rossi 246 behind us was singlehanding - with a single dock line from a mid cleat. He told me the only thing a lock master ever said to him was - when it was windy and his stern was blown away from the wall a bit that he should add a stern line.

Saw lots of cottage boaters locking through sometimes with a boat full of passengers but the captain doing all the work. Saw one young couple locking through - the girl at the helm barking orders at her male crew. Sometimes tensions can rise in the lock and the captain has to give clear, concise(albeit abrupt) orders. Feelings can be repaired later easier than a busted boat. :cry

As I pointed out in my album we used to use 2 lock cables. A lock master suggested to us that a boat our size could use just the 1 cable. A line from the stern and 1 from the bow or mid cleat both around 1 lock cable. This would be the easiest when singlehanding. I have even experimented(on the hard) with joining a bow and stern line together and imagining how they would work in the locks by 1 person. After 6 weeks on the canals and doing many of the 32 locks we have been through multiple times I am still experimenting to find the PERFECT way! :lol:

If it is your first lock, you are singlehanding or otherwise nervous then pick a calm day. As with any "docking" wind can make a lock approach tricky. Perhaps more so because you are trying to come in parallel to the wall. On slow days some locks only open 1 door - that means they want you on that side. Not necessarily on your starboard side and not necessarily on the lee side of the lock. Wind is not just at the top - the bottom of some locks we passed were very windy. A deep lock is a big cold hole in the ground. If the surrounding ground is hot with wind blowing across it - when it hits the lock it drops into this cold hole circling around at the bottom. This could make the lee side at the top the windward side at the bottom. Well,,,, that's my theory anyway! 8) When trying to come in parallel to the wall with wind I usually end up dogtracking. Those with twins or a duoprop might find it easier. Locks will have a flag or some boats tie a piece of string from the brow to keep an eye on wind.

Even at the top of locks sometimes the lock crew is busy as they have other duties besides locking boats through. Often other boaters/spectators are happy to assist though, if you need help don't be shy about giving somebody a wave or shout.

Boris, from what I've seen most marina's that sell fuel offer pumpout service. If you fill up some will discount your pumpout or free. Agree - a law might be a law in a book somewhere but if the government allocates little or no funds to enforce it then it ain't much of a law. Sometimes I think they have laws just to use as backup in case they can't make a case for the crime they wanted to bust you for! Just look at Dave cutting the tags off mattresses - I'm sure they will nail him for something one day!

Regards, Rob

 

[Will-C]

They will never take me alive! Don't ask and don't tell worked for some. I pumped out my waste tank right in a lock nobody said nothing. Just kidding, even I wouldn't do that.
D.D.

 

[Pat Anderson]

We will be doing the Trent-Severn, Georgian Bay and North Channel this summer, probably with Flint and Leslie Firestone on Grace Full.

On the toilet regs, we have a composting toilet. I forget where the post was, somewhere on C-Brats, but somebody queried the Ontario officials, and they responded that their regs were behind the times, and really did not consider things like composting toilets. We will empty the liquid tank in restrooms onshore, there are apparently plenty of them. We are not concerned at all about a reg that apparently requires holding tanks, especially as noted, in view of the lack of sufficient pumpout facilities. In fact, I would be more worried about going into Ontario WITH a holding tank and not being able to find a pumpout in, say, Georgian Bay or the North Channel. I would not be worried about a porta-potty either. It may be easier to find an onshore restroom toilet to empty a porta potty into than a pumpout. Just don't dump it in the water!

 

[Casey]

Colby/Pat&Patty/Flint&Leslie, et al,

Our timetable is very rough. We will probably leave FL in late May headed for T/S. We'll plan on Jun-Aug (SEP?) in Canada unless we're overcome with San Juan/Broughton-itis and the truck makes an abrupt turn toward Anacortes.

During our ICW/Erie Canal trip in 2015 we found the Porta potty to be a great solution ... I think better than a built-in system. There were always toilets available (not so for pump-out's), and it was easy/quick to service the device and leave no mess or trace.

Thanks for the input about the output. Looking at the Ports Cruising Guide (thanks Dave...), it certainly looks like nice country.

RE locking.... On the Erie Canal we became pretty familiar with locking procedure(s). Mary would usually line handle from the bow and I'd line handle from the cockpit or swimstep. At one point Mary sighted a large inflatable fender washed-up on shore. We retrieved it and secured it horizontally to starboard near the cockpit. The fender was probably 14-15" in diameter and three feet long. It was a very convenient way to nudge up to a lock wall while keeping the hull a safe distance from the wall. It worked so well we'll probably do the same thing this summer.

Getting 'stoked....

Best,
C&M

 

[colbysmith]

I'm feeling better about not worrying about my P/P. Now hearing all this talk about locks. I'm guessing the T/S locks are much different from the Mississippi River locks, which I have gone thru numerous times. For those that have done both, are we in fact just talking a smaller hole to enter? And just how much wind or current are we concerned about? I'm thinking if I can get my boat on it's trailer off the Mississippi with wind and current opposing or together, I should be ok getting into a T/S lock? I may or may not have to go solo, all depends on my wife's work schedule and when we/I go. Actually, I forgot, I've gone through a small local lock on our Yahara River here between the Madison Lakes numerous times also. For size comparisons, probably a max of 6 standard sized boats (pontoons and runabouts smaller than 22'), 2 abreast, can fit in this lock. Current can be running pretty good depending upon the water levels, but somewhat wind protected... Colby

 

[Robert H. Wilkinson]

Casey, we saw a number of boats on the canals with fenders hung horizontally - inc. the Rossi 246 in my album. I had trouble with my stern fender coming in parallel to the wall - as we touched it would sometimes get pushed around behind the transom. I hang it now in such a way that it won't.

Colby, I havn't done the other canals you mentioned but I don't imagine the T/S is any more nerve racking. Current in the lock is mostly felt during the fill. If you are going after Labour Day you are often the only boat in the lock(except on weekends). They will let you stay near the back of the lock so the water coming in the front won't bother you as much. Some first timers are nervous at the railroad or the Peterborough lift lock(largest in the world) yet we found them easy. The lift locks are a tub you drive into(no filling current). The railroad you drive in - they raise the slings under you and you sit back and enjoy the ride. Of the locks we have done(12 to 44) the ones that would make me the most nervous redoing would be the Healey Falls Flight Locks and Swift Rapids. Healey Falls because it was windy both times we went through it and that's where our last trip ended because of my heart attack. Swift Rapids(largest conventional lock at 47') because there is current at the bottom and not a lot of tie up space. When busy you may have to hold station. At this lock they call you in - not necessarily in the order the boats are lined up on the blue line. They will put all the bigger boats on the wall and smaller boats like mine are required to thread the needle up the middle and raft off one of the boats on the wall.

If you are coming into a lock with a wind blowing you off the wall I would suggest getting a stern line around the cable first. If you have room on the cleat you can bring it back and give it a wrap around the cleat then use forward thrust to bring the bow back in. The opposite can be done but most boats have better thrust forward than in reverse.

One other suggestion that was given to me and I will pass on - if you are coming from Trenton, arriving in Port Severn - unless you are heading out into Georgian Bay or just want to say you did it there is not much point in locking down. Lots of rocks down there and not much space to tie up.

Re. porta potties - somebody needs to come up with a peel & stick chrome looking plastic fitting that looks like a deck pumpout! Pick it up at the Dollar Tree peel and stick it on your foredeck and your good to go! :smiled

Regards, Rob

 

[colbysmith]

Thanks for all the good advice Rob. Regarding the clean out sticker. Great idea!!! Colby

 

[gulfcoast john]

Colby,
Remember that when in Canada you are not allowed to transmit on your VHF radio unless you have BOTH a Ship Station License AND a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit from the US FCC. Figure it out at this most unhelpful site:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index. ... p_stations

I heard about one tourist who called a Mayday on VHF 16 when his boat was on fire in Canada, burning to the waterline, and the Canadian authorities confiscated the wreck and fined him $150,000 (thankfully US$) because he had a valid SSL (he had the foresight to take it into the water with him tucked in his lifevest) but NOT a RROP on board.
Perhaps Rob can confirm that, since making Colby fret is so much fun.
Happy Boating in Canada!
John

 

[hardee]

OK, maybe I need to fess up here. I am getting to be interested in the TS and maybe even the Great Loop.

Just before Christmas, an envelope arrived at my PO Box, from Amazin Amazon, and it had one item inside, a book... that I had never heard of, seen or ordered. I have no idea who sent it, but I have checked with family, friends and even some C-Brats and to whoever, Thank you.

It is "Crossing the Wake" by Tanya Binford, a lady who took a break from here work, bought a Ranger 25 Tug, and with only moderate boating experience, did the 5000 mile loop in under a year single handed. It is billed as "One woman's great loop adventure" and is not a travel guide, but a recording of her perspective of the loop.

Look at: www.mcpbooks.com

if you are interested in more info on the book, or look up her blog at:
www.TanyaGreatLoop.blogspot.com

I'm about half way through and enjoying it, especially the parts about going through the locks single handing, (when the Canada Parks Trent Severn info office says they do not allow single handing through the locks.)

To whomever, Thank you.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[colbysmith]

John, I'm not a bit concerned about the VHF stuff. I doubt most folks even know what those licenses are! lol. (BTW, I have the RROP, from my past career as an airline pilot....it was one of the first things we were required to get...although no one ever questioned to see it. ATP's and Medicals OTOH were checked anytime we had FAA or check riders on board...) Colby

 

[bobjarrard]

John just posted on the Loop site that the All Canada Pass is free in 2017 including for the Trent. I just ordered mine online, should be here in a few days. The pass will save you $200-300 depending on your boat size!!!
Bob Jarrard
PS: This justifies me buying a C-Dory, I saved a few tanks of gas!!! BJ

 

[Pat Anderson]

John just posted on the Loop site that the All Canada Pass is free in 2017 including for the Trent. I just ordered mine online, should be here in a few days. The pass will save you $200-300 depending on your boat size!!!
Bob Jarrard
PS: This justifies me buying a C-Dory, I saved a few tanks of gas!!! BJ

According to the Parks Canada site, you can get the Discover Pass for the National Parks but the Boating and Canals pass is "coming soon." So how did you order the boating and canals pass? Cut and paste just now from the site:

Boating and canals
Parks Canada seasonal Lockage and Mooring permits give endless opportunities to experience Canada's historic waterways for the whole navigation season.
Coming Soon

 

[Robert H. Wilkinson]

Perhaps Rob can confirm that, since making Colby fret is so much fun.

John, the site you linked to was a US site. We have not needed a station license here for a number of years now. A "Restricted Operators Certificate (Maritime)" is the only requirement to transmit on a VHF. I still need to update mine to include DSC. The following text I copied and pasted from a Canadian site.

VHF License

The rule across Canada is that boaters must have a Radio Operator’s Certificate – Marine (ROC-M) to use any marine radio, including VHF. You do not need the certificate to listen to the radio – to monitor marine weather, for instance, or emergency calls. You don’t need a certificate to use a CB radio, either. But if you want to transmit on a VHF radio, you need the ROC-M.

To get your certificate you have to know the basic radio procedures – the wording to use in certain circumstances, the regulations and penalties for improper use, as well as the phonetic alphabet – your Alpha Bravo Charlies, so to speak.

Canadian Power and Sail Squadrons and Canadian Yachting Association offer courses, as do other organizations, or you can study the CPS Maritime Radio Course Manual, and take a test with an approved registered examiner. Once you pass the test and get your certificate, it’s good for life. You are no longer required to have a ship station licence within Canadian waters but if you do plan to enter US waters you should.


I felt bad causing Colby to worry about the wind, current, etc. at our locks - but he doesn't seem worried about this! 8)

Regards, Rob

 

[bobjarrard]

Hi all,
This is what I got from Captain John

Lucky you, if your planning to cruise the Great Loop in 2017.
Because cruising Canada is FREE to all Great Loopers!
View this email in your browser

Lucky you! If you are planning your Great Loop adventure this year.
2017 is Canada's 150 Anniversary. As a result, ALL Canada's Parks, as well as all Canal & Waterway Locks are free to boaters. This means you can cruise the Rideau Canal (which cost us $167.40 in 2016) and the Trent-Severn Canal which cost another $167.40) for FREE. In 2016 the fees were $4.65 per foot. So if you are in a 36 footer, you can save $334.80 - more or less - depending on the size of your boat. The Rideau will take you from Kingston to Montreal and the Trent-Severn will take you from Trenton on Lake Ontario to Georgian Bay and on to beautiful North Bay and eventually Mackinac Island. All in all, both, or either are voyages that will simply take your breath away at every turn & bend of the waterway.

 

[Pat Anderson]

Hi all,
This is what I got from Captain John

Lucky you, if your planning to cruise the Great Loop in 2017.
Because cruising Canada is FREE to all Great Loopers!
View this email in your browser

Lucky you! If you are planning your Great Loop adventure this year.
2017 is Canada's 150 Anniversary. As a result, ALL Canada's Parks, as well as all Canal & Waterway Locks are free to boaters. This means you can cruise the Rideau Canal (which cost us $167.40 in 2016) and the Trent-Severn Canal which cost another $167.40) for FREE. In 2016 the fees were $4.65 per foot. So if you are in a 36 footer, you can save $334.80 - more or less - depending on the size of your boat. The Rideau will take you from Kingston to Montreal and the Trent-Severn will take you from Trenton on Lake Ontario to Georgian Bay and on to beautiful North Bay and eventually Mackinac Island. All in all, both, or either are voyages that will simply take your breath away at every turn & bend of the waterway.

Not to beat a dead horse, I agree the canal and locks pass is/will be free in 2017; however, unless there is some secret password, it is not yet available from the Parks Canada website. i have been checking it every day or two. While the Discover Pass to use the National Parks is available (and I have ordered mine), the canals and locks pass information just says "coming soon." So if anybody knows how to get the free canals and locks pass now, please share it!

 

[hardee]

And about the VHF licensing; Can a USA citizen get a Canadian license? I think you have to be a US citizen to get a US license. The US FCC rules are made by and in the USA, and they have no authority to patrol or enforce law in Canada. In the US, nobody is going to stop and ask you for a copy of your VHF operators license that I know of. IF you were involved in an accident then the US Coast Guard might come looking, but other than that, if you behave, do proper use of the radio and avoid on the air conflicts, I think you will be home free.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[jritsema]

PatNot sure it matters to buy the Pass now. When Beth and I entered from the west, we purchased our pass at the first "toll booth" lock at Port Severn. I expect that the 2017 free pass will be available there as well? Could stand corrected.
Jeff

 

[Robert H. Wilkinson]

Gulfcoast John, responding to your post on another thread - the chart I used for the TSW was a CMAP # NA.MO26 - Great Lakes North East Coast Maritimes. It is a gold chart which I found is worth the extra money over the standard silver charts. Includes ariel photo's of harbor entrances, marina info, fuel docks, etc. The small craft route for the TSW is shown as a yellow line. One night on the transient wall a fellow in an older boat was asking me about chartplotters. He had never used one so he was curious how complicated it was to use them. "What do you have to do in the morning to get it set up?" he asked me - "Well after I start the boat, I turn it on - then I just follow the yellow brick road!"

One thing you have to watch when you are crossing lakes on the TSW with a small(5") chartplotter like mine - if you are zoomed in too small watch out for bifurcation buoys or you may find yourself on a side trip to a resort or something! Keep an eye on the "big picture" every so often.

As for Rice Lake a lot of boaters coming from Trenton will stop for the night at the top of the Hastings lock and cross it early morning. Late afternoon you will have the sun in your eyes making it difficult to spot buoys, etc. It has a long fetch(20miles) and can chop up quickly with a south west or north east wind. Take care at mile 67 by Tick Island - submerged cribs from old railway bridge. The FIR marking the entrance to the Otonabee River is 27' tall and can be seen a long way off! F1G will be on your port side. Don't cut these markers or the ones marking the channel through the submerged cribs. We travelled from Nassau Mills to Hastings one day - an easy 43 mile run as there aren't a lot of speed restricted zones on the Otonabee River.

Half the fun is planning the trip

Rob