Cruising Europe

T

tparrent

New member
My daughter, known since she a youngster as the L'il Pirate, is all grown up and off at college now. Her specialty is foreign languages and she picks them up like I pick up popcorn. She plans on spending next year in Europe studying since she enjoyed one of her summers there so much.

Last night she started sending me Google Maps with all kinds of crazy routes marked across the continent. When I asked what was going on, she told me that she is planning to backpack across Europe for a year after college. Other than normal parental concerns, I say "You go girl!" (She's already been to New Zealand this year and is heading to the Galapagos in three weeks just like I DIDN'T when I was in college :))

Today I happened across the BoatUS article on the Halcyon folks and started thinking - wouldn't it be even more fun to BOAT across Europe in whatever the Euro equivalent of a C Dory is? That continent is all cracked up with canals and rivers so I am sure she could find a way to get to all the places she wants to visit. Much less stress on the back than backpacking. Probably safer too.

Then I started thinking. Why does SHE get to have all the fun??? In a few years, I plan to retire or at least take a chunk of time off. Why don't *I* boat around Europe? Sure, I can barely communicate in English and all other languages are inaccessible to me but I figure I'd get by somehow.

Has anyone here done any extensive boating in Europe? I know the French canals are a hot destination but what about more extensive explorations?
 
At one time, I think it was at a CBGT in Bellingham, I heard that there was a C-Dory dealer in Turkey, I think. Just a whim of a memory, though.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
We spent several years cruising Europe. BUut the canal part was the fixed mast route in Belgium and Holland. We have several friends who pulled their masts and several others hwo owned canal boats.

You could put a c Dory in a 30 foot shipping container.


generally we did not see small boats doing the canals. but it could be done. There are a lot of regulations. For example you have to have the rule and guide book---even if you cannot read it. The boat, if imported, has to meet eu stds.
 
I've often wondered the same thing. Just a week or so ago I saw a thread on the tugnuts site about a new Ranger Tug dealer in Norway and asked how they ship the boats over and what it costs, but I haven't gotten a response.

I'm just about done with college (1 month to go) and have been fortunate enough to travel extensively. In addition to a semester abroad in Cape Town, I've been to Australia, Canada, Costa Rica, Peru, Ecuador (including Galapagos), the Netherlands, Spain, Denmark, Germany, Sweden, Zambia, and Zimbabwe in the last four years. Fantastic times everywhere, but they could have been even better with my own boat to explore with.

I did run the numbers at one point and figured a 22 might barely fit in a standard sized shipping container, but with just inches to spare.

At some point I'd love to buy a Nordhavn/Diesel Duck/Krogen/Selene/other ocean capable trawler and cruise extensively in foreign countries, but the wallet can't support that yet.
 
A few years back we wanted to ship our 22 cruiser over and start canal cruising in England and then move on to mainland Europe. I did a lot of research online about canal cruising in Europe.

One big problem was the French. If you own your own boat, and for a C-Dory, if it has more than about 8 hp, you have to have a license, and the test is in French. A possible way around this is to get a license in England, but that requires courses, and tests.

If the boat stays longer than 6 months in the EU, a tax called VAT is due. That can run 15 to 19% of value.

US citizens can not stay longer than 90 days in all Schengen Treaty countries combined, which creates another problem.

Google searching on Europe canals, canal cruising, Schengen Treaty, and related topics will get lots of info.
 
Spot on, Larry. We did the same research and came to the same conclusions several years ago. Our idea was to ship Halcyon over and cruise the rivers and canals for a few months each fall and leave her over there for the winters. Complicated for the reasons you stated. So, we decided it would be better to buy (or charter) a boat in Europe for cruising over there.

We have chartered and cruised in England on some of het fine canals, and now we sign on with commercial trips for cruising (much simpler) -- we have enjoyed the rivers, lecturers, and other folks. Last year we cruised across Europe from Vienna to Amsterdam - next month we cruise the Mosel and Rhine. Many different ways to enjoy cruising - and fortunately we have the choice.
 
There are ways around the VAT--and the license. See SSCA discussion board for a number of boats which are cruising Europe.

I agree that probably the easiest way is to buy a boat which is EU compliant over there.

A group of PDQ 34 owners had their boats shipped over--about $18,000 each.

Yes, I believe that a standard C Dory will fit in a container--you would use a folk lift to put it in. No trailer--you would have to borrow one if necessary, or have a shipyard launch it.

In reality the boats cruising the French Canals (and most of the other European Canals, are considerably larger than a C Dory--and they go much slower. The 8 hp is more related to speed than anything else. You can push a C Dory at normal "canal boat" speed with less than 8 hp. But you might be challenged if you went up the Rhine.
 
Sweet, I'm in. Seriously, anyone who is interested in shipping over their C-Dory, shoot me a PM and if nothing else, we can at least compare notes and research, if not "caravan."

I have a feeling it's about 50/50 whether I would ship my boat over or buy a boat over there - if I did it at all. (If I went I think it would be for more than a month, because I hate to fly; so that's why I'm less interested in renting a vessel, although if there were a trip set up.... I can't say as I'd turn it down.)

I got the impression that it would pretty tight for a 22 in a container, but maybe it would fit. Probably the bigger issue (for me) is that I think a whole container would be more expensive than RO/RO on my trailer (although I don't know that for sure). Advantage to the trailer is you'd have a way to roll the boat around; disadvantage is you'd have to store it, and I don't know about any licensing bureaucracy. I suppose one could make a primitive "trailer" that was not road registered just to get on and off the RO/RO.

Does make buying a boat over there look better when you start to think about it all!

Sunbeam
 
Shipping by container provides much greater security. A common problem with shipping boats is pilfering of items. Basically you have to remove anything that can be removed or it will likely be removed for you.

Also ships handling containers are much more common than other types. The vast number of available containers and ships that handle them probably make a container shipment less expensive than a bulk shipment.

A boat sent by RO/RO or bulk carrier will have fewer choices/opportunities and the routing of the ship will be less direct. It could take 6/8 weeks to get a shipment across the pond by bulk carrier.

You will also need a customs agent to handle the landing and inspections required when importing an item into a foreign country. Items coming into the US can take 1-2 weeks to get through customs. You will also likely have to pay customs duty on the boat and equipment.

A boat trailer from the US may not be street legal in the EU.
 
We plan on shipping our Winnebago View motor home over to Europe the summer after our youngest son graduates high school (currently a freshman). Seems very doable and I would think the c-dory would be just as easy to ship. Nice thing with the cd22, there isn't a whole lot to steal. There are a few books available out there on traveling Europe with your own rv.

Might have to think about sending the cd22 over after our motor home adventures.
 
Before relocation to Singapore was cancelled at Christmas my son the oil trader had determined that he could ship his J105 as deck cargo on an oil tanker. Pierside crane would load and unload in cradle. Granted he is connected but there are options to check.

Bill Uffelman
 
My mother and father bought a VW Westfalia at the factory in 1972, took a tramp steamer over to Amsterdam, and then rented a car to drive to Germany, with all of their camping gear. Coming back, they brought the vW Van on the same tramp steamer they rode on. Every thing in the Van was labeled "Stolen from HC Austin" We still have some of that camping gear.

When we cruised Europe we purchased a V W Van for $1000. We made a camper conversion on the cheap--and land cruised, as well as water cruise. The VW camper was "large" for some villages. Most places there was planty of room, but the usual Class A rig would have a tough time. The Sprinter conversion should work great--but there are number of areas to be aware of: Power--often 50 hz 220 volts. On the boat we had a 50 hz 220 volt battery charger, a 2500 watt inverter to 110 V/60 hz, and a 3 KW 220 volt transformer for pure resistive loads. There are many different plugs. We just made up what was necessary.

Propane gas, is an entirely different connector system--many stations will have the bottle fill adaptors, but we took our own, with pigtails.

We ended up giving the Van away to a person who had done a number of favors for us-an ex police officer--and he was able to straighten out the title. (But $1,000 for 2 years use of a van, camping etc, is a Bargain!) We camped everywhere from down town Paris within a short walk to the Efile tower, to marina parking lots...

With the boat, I would buy there, use it for a few years and then sell there.
 
Some of this information is slightly repeated from a couple of my earlier posts in this thread (or was it the Loch Ness one?), but there is some added info. I originally posted this in a thread started by El and Bill today, in response to their points #1 and #2, but then I decided to move it because they mentioned to keep that thread about their point #3, which is a potential short-term C-Brat chartering experience in the UK or Europe. The quoted material from El and Bill comes from that thread.

El and Bill":2xzy7ici said:
1. On the subject of sending a C-Dory over -- this has been researched in the past. Costs were high. Seemed there were two possibilities:
a) In a container
b) on a barge (with built-on dry dock that sinks, drive your boat onto a platform, tie off, dry dock lifts and off goes the barge across the ocean).
Either way, the round-trip costs seemed prohibitive for those who considered it (including us).
Keep checking -- their may be a better price today.
Click to expand...

I got a quote for a third option in December 2012. This would be shipping via RO/RO (roll-on/roll-off - essentially a car carrier) with the boat on its own trailer. You drop the boat off at one of their ports (in the case of this shipper it was Jacksonville, FL or Baltimore, MD), and pick it up again (or arrange for someone else to) at the destination (in this case, Amsterdam, Netherlands). The quote is based on the size (length and width) and weight. For a C-Dory 22 the quote for one-way shipping was $2698. This was exclusive of insurance, and I'm pretty sure there would be other fees. I read an account by a couple who shipped a somewhat larger boat this way (sorry, I forget what type now), and it was commensurately more money, but in line with this type of cost.

How does this third option compare to quotes you received?

El and Bill":2xzy7ici said:
2. On the subject of buying a boat in Europe, and reselling it after use -- the research here seemed to show many complexities. Could still be researched, but then it seemed difficult (we considered that also).
Click to expand...

For those who want to research further, here is a link to a page I've found helpful. This information is slightly dated, but I think it's still useful, and these folks seem very knowledgeable and helpful (in other topics I know more about so can judge better) in the sailboat cruising community. At any rate, anyone who is considering buying a boat over there would probably get something out of it. My guess (but at this point it's only a hunch) is that while there would be complications, it's one of those things that's more daunting to think about than once you actually go ahead and do it. If I do take the leap, I'll report back - hopefully not from a cell :wink

http://www.svsarah.com/whoosh/whooshprepbuying.htm

Sunbeam :hot
 
thataway":hq8ekcem said:
There are ways around the VAT--and the license. See SSCA discussion board for a number of boats which are cruising Europe.

I agree that probably the easiest way is to buy a boat which is EU compliant over there.

A group of PDQ 34 owners had their boats shipped over--about $18,000 each.

Yes, I believe that a standard C Dory will fit in a container--you would use a folk lift to put it in. No trailer--you would have to borrow one if necessary, or have a shipyard launch it.

In reality the boats cruising the French Canals (and most of the other European Canals, are considerably larger than a C Dory--and they go much slower. The 8 hp is more related to speed than anything else. You can push a C Dory at normal "canal boat" speed with less than 8 hp. But you might be challenged if you went up the Rhine.
Click to expand...


We met Henry Clews on his PDQ 34 while on our loop trip in 2008. He told us about his European trip the year before. You can follow his cruise on his Web site :


Http://snodoglog.com
 
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