Cooler: Rock Salt PLUS DRY ICE? Would it work even better?

Thanks for all the input! As a kid, we camped all the time and my folks always used dry ice... however, that was in the days of metal clad coolers (with Coca Cola logos). I suppose it could damage the cooler; which Rob is concerned about. I really don't like this cooler. It has not been as good as a prior, cheaper, older basic Igloo cooler. So don't believe Coleman Extreme hype and I won't be too sad if I have to buy a portable freezer for next year :)

I have read that the CO2 dissolves egg shells as well. We would be putting all non frozen stuff in the boat frig which pretty much can run on just our solar power, but can't hold enough for a week at Powell. I was just hoping to stretch the ice/salt to the maximum limit and to keep the meat as frozen as long as possible. I was hoping mainly that there would be no unanticipated chemical reaction between the CO2 and the salt. We'll give it a try and report back after our Western lakes Grand Slam

Mary
 
Mary....it's my understanding that eggs that have never been refrigerated will last a long time at ambient temps. Typically local sourced and sometimes at Farmer's Markets. Maybe some ex cruising sailor can expound on that as we have never tried it.

James
 
I've kept eggs unrefrigerated in the tropics for weeks. (Many things we think need refrigeration actually don't, btw.)

I'm not sure Mary and Rob are planning to bring eggs, but here is what I experienced:

1) Best is unwashed/never refrigerated eggs. I was often able to get these by just asking the farmer to please not wash them.

2) Next best is washed but never refrigerated (this is pretty much how eggs in Mexico are sold).

3) Then the idea is to keep air from penetrating the shell. There are numerous ways, but I chose the simplest, which was to simply rotate them every few days or so. This distributes the egg around on the shell inside and keeps air out. I kept them in one of those plastic camping "suitcases" that holds a dozen, so I could just flip the whole dozen over at once. Usually started with around four dozen, and they never went bad when we were actively using them.

Some other ways I have read about are par-boiling them (cooks thin layer that protects shell from air permeation), and painting them with "water glass" (does same thing). Flipping them over always seemed easier and more predictable to me.

There are some other non-refrigeration tricks, such as painting cheese with vinegar; not putting anything dirty into mayo container ('course now there are squeeze bottles), and that sort of thing. Eggs are so easy though, if you just find someplace to buy them that does not (or will not by request) refrigerate them (or even better, neither wash nor refrigerate).
 
Water Glass is actually sodium silicate...and does seal the porous shells...it is also used by truckers to seal cracked engine blocks... neat stuff..

Now that you mention it, I remember reading about Joshua Slocum putting eggs wrapped in straw in the keel to keep them cool and keeping them for weeks.... Ugh ! .... farmers would float the eggs to see which ones were good and which were bad.... guess the bad uns had some gas...

Joel
 
Well it may sound a little gross, but I never once had an egg go bad*, and this was weeks in the hot, muggy tropics. There's nothing like something "fresh" after you've been away from refrigeration or supplies for a long time. The two things that always amazed me were eggs, and then baking bread (because, a bunch of dry ingredients, plus a little work, and you have *fresh bread* way out in the middle of nowhere). Add some of that non-refrigerated-but-kept-coolish butter (or canned butter), and maybe a bit of jam, and you have a feast! And mostly from dry lockers. Never ceased to amaze :D

* I did cull one or two early that had developed hairline cracks, because I figured they'd soon go bad - but I was able to use them by catching them right away. Sometimes the larger ones fit pretty tightly in the "suitcases" so can be a bit prone to cracking.
 
Lots of cool tricks to preserve eggs. I've heard of the water glass trick. I think it mainly toughens the shell and makes it a bit thicker. Eggshells are microporous, with openings too small for bacteria but large enough for air and carbon dioxide, other small molecules to pass through. If the shell is intact, the egg innards should be good for a long time.

I've never heard or read that ordinary air decreases shelf life of eggs.
 
We have also kept eggs for long periods of times. But the key is getting eggs which are unrefrigerated and unwashed. We had to go directly to the egg farm to get this. I would not try it with any grocery store eggs, anywhere. We just turned the edges regularly. We did have a couple crack, and a couple which had been fertilized--out of several hundred thru the years. Marie found the styrofoam containers to be best, because they gave some cushioning effect. We had a lower saloon, which had nice storage under settees, below the water line, but not in the bilge (I would not want eggs in the bilge for several very obvious reasons).

We have kept these eggs as long as 5 months, in the lower parts of the boat, where even in the tropics (Panama), the water temp is in the 80's but I would be a but concerned in the high ambient temps of Powell for a prolonged time.
 
After spending 6 weeks away, 5+ on the water on Vancouver Island, I have figured I can do it without a cooler or fridge/freezer. The ambient temps were not as warm as Lake Powell by considerable. Desolation sound was warm, 75 - 85 F in the days, 70 at night. Broughtons were cooler, high during the days only mid 70ish and evenings were down to high 50s to 60ish. I was fine without a cooler. I lost 2 slices of bread due to mold. I did not have meat, but did have fresh fruit and veggies. A pretty simple diet, and drank water from the gallon jugs. The longest prior to this was 11 days in the San Juans and Gulf Islands in August.

That's not Lake Powell. Some of my time was spent with George and Carolyn on Kerri On. They are using a very enviable cooler/fridge/freezer system that is running entirely off 2 solar panels. About 50 Quart size and able to freeze items -- like 2/3 of a salmon over a few hours.

When using a cooler, I have had good luck with making sure every thing that goes in was pre cooled, and the cooler had at least 2/3 ice; opened infrequently, and kept insulated and in the day, white wet towels over it. That has worked well in 80-90 F for 4-5 days.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Havey, One issue is water temperature, as well as air. I have gone on month back packing with just what I carried. But cool streams were sure nice to find!

At Powell, we have both the high temps, and crappy ice. I posted on the Lake Powell gathering site, the availability of dry ice at Walmart in Page.

We never had much in the way of ice problems in the BC cruising we did, including Desolation.

Come on down to Powell, you will love it!
 
Thanks Bob, I am really trying to make it work this year. It was in the long range plan, but some family stuff has come up that would probably make it a short trip and I'm not sure I want to do that drive for less than 2 weeks on the water. As we all know, life happens. Still trying to work it out.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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This has probably already been mentioned. Dry Ice does not melt it sublimates (goes directly from solid to gas) so salt is not going to make it any colder.
Also here is a nice little trick I bumped into.

Pack the dry ice in a separate cooler and surround it with frozen blue ice packs. Don’t put any food or beverages in this cooler, just the dry ice with frozen blue ice packs. Once the blue ice packs in your food or beverage cooler are used up, switch the blue ice packs with fresh ones out of the dry ice cooler. It’s a great way to refreeze your blue ice packs and avoid damage to your food by freezing it too much with dry ice.
 
Was intrigued by the talk of freezing water with salt. Sometimes we make our own block ice before going on trips. Do I understand correctly that if we add salt to the water before we freeze it, it stays colder? Does this mean the ice block will last a little longer? And if so, what kind of concentration are we talking about? Thanks. Colby
 
colbysmith":1exg8sso said:
Was intrigued by the talk of freezing water with salt. Sometimes we make our own block ice before going on trips. Do I understand correctly that if we add salt to the water before we freeze it, it stays colder? Does this mean the ice block will last a little longer? And if so, what kind of concentration are we talking about? Thanks. Colby
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Not quite.

Salty water freezes at a lower temp than unsalty water. And, it will melt from the frozen form at a lower temperature. So, it is useful for keeping stuff colder than 32 F. That's why people add rock salt to ice to surround the ice cream container when they want to make home made ice cream. Otherwise, the same quantity of water as ice or salty ice will melt at about the same rate, other things bejng equal.

Fish boats sometimes use sslty water, aka brine, in their refrigerated fish hold to keep their catch at a temp lower than 32 F on the return to shore, so that the fish arrives in better condition.
 
If you put salt on previously frozen fresh water ice it will melt it faster. I thought the purpose of the rock salt when making ice cream was to actually melt the ice, drawing heat from the ice cream mix to do so. Also, melted ice water transfers heat better because of the surface area.
 
ssobol":18pd34bp said:
If you put salt on previously frozen fresh water ice it will melt it faster. I thought the purpose of the rock salt when making ice cream was to actually melt the ice, drawing heat from the ice cream mix to do so. Also, melted ice water transfers heat better because of the surface area.
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Both true. This may be more semantics than anything else, but remember that ice sans salt melts at 32 F, and to freeze the water in the ice cream mix you need a low temp well below 32 F, hence the rock salt ice mix. If you crush the ice well and intimately mix it with rock salt, as occurs in making ice cream, an ice salt bath can reach 0 F no problem.
 
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