Considerations of infections on boats.

dmengland,
If you are a physician-- a pathologist is defined as a physician--, you know that injuries happen, people get sick or injured thru no fault of their own. Yes preventive care is very important. Perhaps my friend (who is 80 years old) should not have gone for a hike--but he walks several miles a day--as is good preventive medicine dictates. There are not a lot of level places at Lake Powell.

The individual who went into warm salt water (think all of Florida, and the Gulf Coast) did not think much about a small scrape on his leg. But most people do not think about those type of things. This is exactly why I wrote this thread; to encourage people to think about the possible risks if they had an open wound.

I don't know know your back ground or training--but I have seen people do mighty strange things--and I have tried to educate them to avoid doing those risky things.

As for first aid kit--you certainly want to be prepared. What is in your first aid kit? Relate your experience at sea and in examining dead people to preventing injuries in boats. For example when I made a medical kit for a long distance cruiser, I also did a safety inspection on their boat. I pointed out sharp objects or areas which might cause broken ribs (and worse) if they were thrown against the protrusion. I have posted many modifications to our boats which made them safer, and less likely to cause injury.

Thank you.

Bob Austin MD (board certified in Internal Medicine, Nephrology and Sports Medicine when I was in practice for over 30 years)
 
Dr. Bob: I strongly support your statement, "..I have seen people do mighty strange things--and I have tried to educate them to avoid those risky things." Education is the best answer. How many of us have attended a boating safety course given by United States Power Squadron ?
 
dmengland":1d8j71rb said:
Dr. Bob: I strongly support your statement, "..I have seen people do mighty strange things--and I have tried to educate them to avoid those risky things." Education is the best answer. How many of us have attended a boating safety course given by United States Power Squadron ?
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I would guess that the vast majority of the C brats have taken USPS or USCG Aux courses. Many of the brats have extensive back grounds in boating, and have safely boated many thousands of miles. However, a boating safety course does not prepare a boater for all that he will encounter in his or her boating experiences. We frequently discuss topics which will help boaters be safer--including reporting of accidents, fires, and health issues where there may be lessons learned. In this case, as in may threads, the discussion takes many turns, as each of us enters our comments and experiences. There is a vast experience and knowledge in this group. That is what makes it such a dynamic "extended family".

Take care
 
Well, my tongue is sore from biting it for a while, and I know how to treat that, so here goes.

Granting the intent of this discussion from Dr. Bob is aimed at helping out, however, giving more than elementary medical advice on a forum venue may create some seaside misadventures resulting in more harm than good.

The problem is having a little bit of knowledge to assess and attempt to treat potentially serious problems. Nothing replaces training and experience. First Aid: OK, go for it but know what you are doing. Get training, take courses from those in the know. More than First Aid, take a Survival Medicine, Wilderness First Aid course or get an EMT license short of going to medical school.

This started out about what to do about infections on boats and has cascaded short of doing an emergency appendectomy on the intercoastal waterway.

My advice about infections: don't get one. Spend most of your efforts on that. And first of all, learn what an infection is, what it looks and feels like to know if you have one or not. If you do, get appropriate medical care early. Don't play Dr. Welby, especially after a few sundowners.

Aye.
 
Foggy":30r4szx9 said:
Well, my tongue is sore from biting it for a while, and I know how to treat that, so here goes.

Granting the intent of this discussion from Dr. Bob is aimed at helping out, however, giving more than elementary medical advice on a forum venue may create some seaside misadventures resulting in more harm than good.

The problem is having a little bit of knowledge to assess and attempt to treat potentially serious problems. Nothing replaces training and experience. First Aid: OK, go for it but know what you are doing. Get training, take courses from those in the know. More than First Aid, take a Survival Medicine, Wilderness First Aid course or get an EMT license short of going to medical school.

This started out about what to do about infections on boats and has cascaded short of doing an emergency appendectomy on the intercoastal waterway. .....

Aye.
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Foggy, Nonsense, nowhere was advice given to go beyond a person's medical ability and training.

As most have noted we kept the original posts on the subject of infections. There was a question about first aid kits, and that was answered. There was no implication about taking steps any further than that. Although I would love to see every boater to have EMT Paramedic status, it is unrealistic that the average C Brat will do more than a basic first aid course--and I suggested that much earlier in the discussion. No mention of anyone going beyond their training was made. If a boater is well prepared and has communication with a physician--or other medical facility, then lives may be saved. I have worked on the ham and SSB radio a number of times with intelligent and prepared boaters to save lives, when they had some training and proper medical supplies. Always get as much training as you can.
 
With all due respect Dr Bob, this has already been logged -

I said:
"Granting the intent of this discussion from Dr. Bob is aimed at helping out..."

You said:
"about Automatic Defibrillator. I feel that they are best used at places where many people gather--"

"carry a suture set, morphine, etc--"

"If there is dead skin or debris, trim this off with sterile scissors or a sharp blade. "

"…Betadine solution and gloves so you can work with a wound."

"I have seen people do mighty strange things--and I have tried to educate them to avoid doing those risky things. "

Aye.
 
Foggy, If you are a physician or have expertise in this area--identify your self as one, tell us your expertise and cite a reference for any disagreement. Most of what you "quote" is taken partly and out of context. If you have difficulty understanding what I have written and why, please contact me by PM and I will be more than happy to explain why I posted every word, and will give you valid references if necessary for your understanding and education.

I readily identify my self by my real name, location, my training and expertise. Each of the items I have noted are in the mainstream of current medical thought and practice.

From our local news source this evening:

The first case of a flesh-eating bacterium that has caused nine deaths this year in Florida was confirmed in Escambia County on Monday.

The case of Vibrio vulnificus infection was detected in a wound culture from a local lab, said Dr. John Lanza, director of the Florida Department of Health in Escambia County. Escambia county is the Pensacola area.
 
Whoa there. Just expressing another viewpoint on the subject. I even took time to reread my post and feel it is valid. No offense intended. It's just an opinion. Plus, you did not re-quote the best part of it - about infection - which 'is' the topic.

As far as IDing myself, no one would know anymore about me if I called myself Harry, Sam, Norbert, LaMont or Sue. My forum name is given, as many others here have their own forum name.

Expounding on credentials, personal maritime history, accomplishments, or lack thereof, is simply not my style. For those who want that sort of thing, there's plenty of it available from others.

Aye.
 
Foggy, et al:

I find the discussion of infections to be of interesting and of value, though my background in science teaching may add to my interest level.

As far as how much information is contained in one's "Profile" and postings, I find the more I know about a person the more real they are to me, and the more enjoyable it is to interact with them.

The better you know someone, the better you can talk to them and understand what they say and where they're coming from.

Go to a few C-Brat get togethers and exchange PM's with some of our members and you'll understand what I'm saying and how much fun it is to get to know the wonderful people on this great discussion board!

I know some prefer to largely remain anonymous, but I think that's just another wasted opportunity to make friends not taken advantage of.

Specifically, I wish more of our members would post their occupation(s) in their profile, as it would give up more insight into each others background and opinions.

And, yes, even if you're retired, it would still be nice to know what you did to survive before you took up full-time dinking around in boats! :lol:

But, to each his/her own!

Anchors aweigh!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Foggy - the only rule in CBrats is "just be nice". I for one feel you're treading close to the edge on that one.

It's ok to disagree, but it's not ok to be disagreeable. It appears you're being disagreeable for the sport of it.
 
Sea Wolf":10pd9iqs said:
Foggy, et al:

I find the discussion of infections to be of interesting and of value, though my background in science teaching may add to my interest level.

As far as how much information is contained in one's "Profile" and postings, I find the more I know about a person the more real they are to me, and the more enjoyable it is to interact with them.

The better you know someone, the better you can talk to them and understand what they say and where they're coming from.

Go to a few C-Brat get togethers and exchange PM's with some of our members and you'll understand what I'm saying and how much fun it is to get to know the wonderful people on this great discussion board!

I know some prefer to largely remain anonymous, but I think that's just another wasted opportunity to make friends not taken advantage of.

Specifically, I wish more of our members would post their occupation(s) in their profile, as it would give up more insight into each others background and opinions.

And, yes, even if you're retired, it would still be nice to know what you did to survive before you took up full-time dinking around in boats! :lol:

But, to each his/her own!

Anchors aweigh!

Joe. :teeth :thup
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Joe

You are a gentleman, scholar and diplomat

God Bless you

Brent Barrett

LinkedIn profile

http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id ... %3Aprimary
 
We carry a decent sized first aid kit along with rubbing alcohol and hydrogen peroxide. I have no medical training and would probably offer no more services to a stranger than trying to stop the bleeding, or trying to my hand at CPR, calling for the Coast Guard, or 911. If I was in a remote area I would have a Satellite phone. I just hope I don't have to ever try and save someone related to a lawyer. I have enough crap on my boat already without getting into defibulators and the like. Man, I love this site. I'm glad people speak their minds on the site. I saw nothing offensive, it makes for interesting reading. :D Joe is the man.
D.D.
 
Mulled this over for a while. Foggy's main concern appears to be an over informed but unpracticed or untrained person might use information gleaned here to accidentally do harm. That is kind of out of our realm. Providing information is what we do for each other, tapping our special expertise ... and it helps if we identify and describe that special expertise so the reader can decide whether to check it out or to skip it and read the next topic.

However, just because you read it here does not relieve you of the responsibility to verify what you read. Specifically, no one is encouraging anybody to attempt first aid, especially invasive variants, with out adequate training and practice in the arts.

As a strictly coastwise cruiser, I would not gear myself up for some of the advanced procedures described, because I am always within a day of professional help. But, if I were contemplating a shot from here to Fiji, I would equip myself with the tools and the knowledge and training to handle more serious stuff. Reading the thread would point me to some of the things I would need to do. That is valuable information.
 
BrentB":yzgz2ws3 said:
Joe

You are a gentleman, scholar and diplomat

God Bless you
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you Brent.....I have often wished that Joe had been my High School Science Teacher! :thup Of course he would have been fresh out of high school then.... :lol:

(In 2002, I posted information about 1st Aid Kits and it can be found by going to Forums, then Library, then Boating Safety, then p. 2, then First Aid Kits). It would be helpful if all of the discussions about specific items of interest would end up in this index.

At any rate, the reminder that a "simple wound" can become life threatening if not properly treated is certainly a valuable reminder to us all. Thanks Dr. Bob. :thup

(There is a thread entitled "AED on Board?" which was initiated in 2008 that may be of interest to members that are seeking thoughts about first aid on the water. It can be located by typing AED in Search above and then selecting "AED on Board").
 
On our Desolation trip I actually took along my dept issued AED. I had permission from the Capt that runs the program in King County. They are simple to use. The cost of such units has come down drastically, which is good news, although they still cost about $1.2K/each. Heck, you can even buy one now at Costco! They are, however, priceless to those whose lives they save.....

http://www.costco.com/Philips-HeartStart-Home-Defibrillator.product.11323972.html

OK. Since we are talking first aid. I took a basic, one-day, combat medic course through work. Very basic but possibly useful for my job (GOD forbid :shock: ). One very useful and inexpensive device to carry; a tourniquet. You can get one for under $20 on line. I have one in my truck, on my uniform and on the boat. This is what King County Medics recommend and use in the field:

http://combattourniquet.com/

I know there are beliefs that tourniquets are no good, that they kill limbs by shutting off blood flow etc. Per our training, U.S. Army studies have proven that bunk. Those false beliefs are based on old "wives tales" coming out of WWI and WWII, when field medicine was non-existent compared to today's modern armed forces. As they put it in training; better to save your blood than save your arm. Your arm is useless if you're DRT (dead right there) THEY WORK.

How tight do I put it on? As tight as possible. If you think it's tight...twist it some more. It's gonna hurt when applied (duh), but Army studies have shown that limbs will be viable even after 12 hours of use. Also once on, do NOT remove it or loosen it! Medics/ER personnel will do that. I could show you how quickly the human body will "bleed out" but as a comparison imagine a 1 liter soda bottle filled w/ liquid and the mouth about the size of an average little finger tip of an adult; let's say 1/2". Now turn that liter bottle over and let gravity empty it. A femoral artery bleed will be about that quick. No blood, no life.

The tourniquet is useful only on large bleeds from your four extremities (arms & legs) but hey, better to have and not need, than need and not have. Again, God forbid....
 
Thanks

Very affordable!

Great instructions

call 911 first

Then follow this three-step process: Pull, Place & Press the
Defibrillator
 
BrentB":1wch6v6j said:
Thanks

Very affordable!

Great instructions

call 911 first

Then follow this three-step process: Pull, Place & Press the
Defibrillator
Click to expand...

It is that easy. It is all automatic and fool-proof. The AED will not deliver a shock unless it "reads" the correct bad rhythm.

I've used it in the field and actually have one saved life! When the fire medics arrived I told them "it administered one shock". The look on her face was priceless! :lol: The male, in his mid fifties, survived and had quad by-pass later that week. He is now doing fine, is back at work and his family was very appreciative.
 
Fantastic replies--thanks guys. When you are discussing medical kits, medicine etc--it is hard to know what to include in a brief post. When we gave lectures, they were mostly for folks going offshore, and we had at least 2 hours--often a full day or more of training time along with aids and practical lab time.

Medicine can be frightening and overwhelming--or as Localboy's case with the AED--very rewarding to save a life.

As DaveS noted, there are items in the archives, and maybe we should organize them better and peroidicaly update them.
 
Heading to myrtle beach and Murrels inlet . Will be boatless fishing the jettys and surf. Will be bringing betadine and some other first aid supplies. Going to be careful around rock jettys ,but you never know. Now after hearing about these possible infections ect. I would clean wound and head for treatment and antibiotics if needed. Where I used to be slow to seek help,not anymore with age and better knowledge of what can happen if you ignore treatment.
 
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