Complete Overhaul 22-Cruiser: Some Opinions/Questions/Advice

thataway":csslo044 said:
One other item to consider is the VRO unit. Many have pulled the oil pump and just gone back to premix. This is an option. It is not like the Fitch which has oil injection as the fuel is injected into the cyl.
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Bob,

The rumor is that VRO stands for "Very Rarely Oiled". :roll: :roll:
 
The problem with the VRO system is that is operated by a diaphragm pump and if the engine is turning over it is pumping oil.

So if you have to crank the motor a bit without it starting, for instance when chasing a ignition or fuel supply problem and constantly cranking to find the problem, it starts to fill the carbs and engine with oil. then you have a bigger problem. Disconnect or pinch the oil supply line prior to extensive cranking.
Be sure to put it back once you have found the problem and have the motor ready to run.

Other than the over oiling problem, I have never had a failure to pump oil and on boats that I have had it was pretty trouble free.

Or you can disconnect it if you do not trust it. The first 70 that I had was pre VRO and ran fine on premix.

Even if you repower, your old motor is worth next to nothing as is, and will be worth quite a bit more if in running condition. If you can do a little minor tune up work and get it running you will be way ahead.
 
My Dad learned the expensive way. Another problem with the VRO is when/if water gets in the oil tank. It goes unnoticed. The oil floats and since the pick-up sucks off the bottom the water goes first. Doesn't take long to do the damage. It was a mystery for awhile as to what caused the slow death of a great engine. I believe the tank was vented and water entered when washing/rain/condensation over time. His oil tank was mounted on the floor in the stern. What ever the reason, when they quit delivering oil to the cylinders you have no warning.

I suggested to my DAD to disconnect his VRO when he got his boat. (he didn't listen) I would recommend disconnecting the VRO and mix gas/oil using an oil ratio mixing cup with ethanol free fuel and use the 2-cycle for atleast next summer. The engine is as much of a classic as the boat. Small profile (my 80 engine cowl is huge) the light weight engine is a huge plus and good power output with every crankshaft revolution. Enjoy it while you have it. They really DON'T make them like that anymore!
 
It looks to me like you've got a great hull. Of course the checks suggested by the more experienced CDr's here are important. If the motors will run okay, don't worry about re-power. Spend your time and money on making sure the hull and interior are sound structurally and that it is made to look beautiful. THEN, worry about re-power. I can't say enough good about the E-tech engines. I have a 25 on a smaller fishing boat and it will tear your head off out of the hole. It is quiet and very non-polluting and legal and even desirable on Lake Tahoe.

My CD 22 has twin fuel injected Suzuki's and I can't say enough good about them either. (Other than the fact that there is no dealer withing 800 miles of me to take care of them. But I'm a very good boat motor mechanic, so I hope I'll be able to handle any problems here at home.)

Bless my old heart if your boat doesn't actually have a Loran on it. I struggled with spending a few grand on a project CD or paying through the nose on a newer low time one. I showed my wife a couple project boats and she choked and insisted on the much newer show-room boat. I'd personally have rather had a bit of a project boat like yours. More fun for me to tinker. (I'm not kidding,)
 
Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the comments regarding this (fun) project. I'm taking it all in.

Something interesting: I've discovered that it's quite easy to turn a Honda 90 25 inch (extra-long) into a standard 20 inch by removing the spacer, then replacing the shift shaft, pick up tube and main shaft with the correct length. All of these parts can either be found from a parted out 20 inch or bought new from Honda.

I do hope to bring the johnson back to life before sending it on it's way. The little nissan will also be for sale since I have a Honda kicker waiting to go on.

Speaking of: I think the kicker is on the drivers side because of the swim step. My other 89 did not have a step, are these transferable to either side? It makes sense to have the kicker on the other side for weight distribution--especially since I do a lot of boats alone with my dog (that weighs all of 20 pounds)

M&M
 
Well a 9.9 will move my 22 about 6 mph with the motor working hard. I do have a high trust prop on it but it gets most of the run time when I fish. As for the Johnson 70 well I may be the only one here thinks of them as a backup anchor. I had two of them of them on past boats and would not give anyone a wooden nickel for one. I hate how they idle and the smell of two stroke oil makes me nauseous. Oil injection.....that some times work........Well lots of people like them so i'd sell it to them. As for me I’d buy new motors that work and you like. I have no brand loyalty but the Honda’s were the best value when purchased mine. I would avoid a jack plate if possible. The transom is crowded on a 22 with 90 and a 9.9 but it can be done. Looks like a fun project.
 
MilesandMiles":1y50q8u1 said:
Speaking of: I think the kicker is on the drivers side because of the swim step. My other 89 did not have a step, are these transferable to either side? It makes sense to have the kicker on the other side for weight distribution--especially since I do a lot of boats alone with my dog (that weighs all of 20 pounds) M&M
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The reason for the kicker on the "driver's side" (starboard side) is because it keeps all of the wiring, fuel lines etc. on that side and away from the port side where the swim step is located. Then when you board the vessel via the swim step you are not tripping over the wiring and fuel lines, which would be the case if the kicker and swim step were in the opposite configuration.

To counteract the existing imbalance, just place a huge cooler filled with beer on the port side and then when you climb in on the swim step, you can more easily "rehydrate" yourself..... :mrgreen: (At least for the folks that still believe that beer is good for rehydration.... :roll: )
 
Some outboards have spacers to make them into 20 and 25", some don't. If the motor you have lined up has the spacers, then that is an easy "fix". The buying new parts may not be cheap--but used are always available. But be sure that there is not corrosion, since that can be a problem on Honda lower units used in salt water.

The swim step can be moved. But you will have to be filling holes etc. On my current boat, I will leave the swim step in place--and probably put an outboard bracket on the starboard side. It just is very crowded with some of the larger motors on the transom with the new larger outboards. But I use smaller kickers, and like to be able to lift the kicker off the bracket onto the dinghy at that bracket level--or use a davit to do that lifting.
 
MilesandMiles":2ol8cd7s said:
The research continues:

I have a question into this ebay seller to confirm, but I believe these parts would convert a 25 to a 20:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260893749785?it ... m=&vxp=mtr

I also called a Honda Marine dealer who confirmed this conversion can be done by removing the spacer and replacing: the water tube, vert shaft and shift linkage.

I might pull this off yet.

M$M
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Those parts are more than you need! And may be missing some you do need!

Looks to me like it has most all the lower unit bevel gears, prop shaft, shift dogs, bearings, spacers, thrust washers, thing-a-ma-jigs, etc.

You don't need most of these, they are already in the motor you're thinking of buying.

AND it doesn't say it is currently set up (has parts for) a 25" or 20" (!!!)

You do need a shorter (vertical) drive shaft , and need to remove the 5" extension shaft housing from your prospective motor, and a shorter shift rod, water tube, etc. You will want a new water pump impeller, too.

I think you need to find a source of just the components you need, not the whole lower leg inner parts. Too much extra baggage and extra $$$!!!

Just IMHO evaluation for 2¢ or less in this Golden Economic Era of Prosperity!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Sea Wolf,

I totally agree. Most of those items I shouldn't need, but can you believe this is the price of NEW:

vert shaft: $349.50 (at least it's not $350.00!)
Shift linkage: $149.50 (ditto)
Water tube: $49.50

A complete lower unit from a standard shaft 90 would be practically plug and play.

I want to go this route for a few reasons: I like "making it work" it keeps some $ flow going within the brats group and it's an all around good deal.

Q: Will the cooler full of beer help this conversion in any way? :)

M&M
 
I agree with Jim--I think that the E-bay item has most of the lower unit gears, which you don't need.

It is also possible that the 25" leg has a shaft extension, shifter extension and water tube extension in it, so since you know you can get the parts--buy the motor, and take the leg apart and see what you need.
 
I got a response from the eBay fella:

Good morning, The shift shaft and drive (vert) shaft are there. The water tube you can simply cut. Yes, it is a 20". Tim

Tug,

1st snow of the year happening here right now. The testing of the spirit has begun.

M&M
 
I agree w/tex too. OMC engines were bullet proof,and reliable and also relatively light for their power.If it can be tuned up cheap,why not use it awhile to evaluate what you REALLY want or need.
 
M&M,

With the BF90 Honda and a BF15 Honda you'll have quite a bit of weight on the transom (about a whole 'nuther person worth at 160 or so pounds). You won't save any fuel puttering along on the BF15 versus the BF90, most of our customers don't even use their kicker motors once they start using the boat because the main engines are so quiet, smooth, and efficient. Personally, I'd opt for a cheap, light kicker back there as just "insurance".

Trying to rig up the BF15 for remote use is another bag o' worms. Can be done but it's expensive and not much return on investment (for most).

The BF15 won't fit well on the transom along with the BF90. You can use an aluminum Mini-Jacker to take care of that issue.

Les
 
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