Cleaning and preventing the black mold below deck

M

matt_unique

New member
I have a good amount of what I assume is black mold below deck in my sponsons. I was curious how others have cleaned these and ideas for prevention. From our albums this seems common.

Also, my Cat is shrink wrapped for the winter. I have a 28 ounce Damp Away Dehumidifier in the cabin and I keep the cabin door closed/locked for security. I check on the bucket of damp away periodically; you need to dump excess water if it appears. Any other suggestions for keeping the cabin interior and cushions dry sans odors?

Thanks
 
When we have had to store our boats for any length of time, we also stand cushions up (or prop something under them to allow air flow), and put plenty of dryer sheets (like Bounce) around. The dryer sheets keep things smelling fresh and seem to help keep away critters. Crack cabinet doors open a bit. We also put out bug traps and an open box of Decon.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
The black stuff is mold (mildew,) which likes dark, unventilated places. It grows in Journey On's anchor locker and aft lazarete. You can buy mold killer (Seabrite sells some.) Or (Cheap, Cheap) you can make your own by diluting bleach. It's all the same thing. The mold just wipes away.

Step 2 is to provide ventilation, since mildew doesn't like fresh air.

Boris
 
Bleach is smelly and harmful and will bleach things you might not have intended to bleach.

Another way to kill it is with a very diluted solution of vinegar in a spray bottle. Your boat will smell like a deli, which is not quite as bad as smelling like a laundry room. ;)
 
Actually, if it's organic, which a mold is, then you kill it w/ a base (basic substance). Bleach = Sodium Hypochlorite = Base = Basic Substance>ph7. Use bleach in the bottle or dilute it - your call. Bases kill organisms. Organisms (on the planet Earth) are of carbon origin (e.g. Carbon Based Units = CBU). Most lower-level organisms exist and many thrive in acid environments. The best solution to kill organisms is to employ a basic compound. In the layman's terms this equates to bleach.

Bases denature proteins, proteins are comprised of amino acids assembled via polypeptide bonds, amino acids (albeit, proteins) are comprised of carbon compounds. Bases denature proteins, carbon-based-units are comprised of proteins, therefore bases kill the organisms by denaturing their proteins - effectively killing them - end of story.
 
Protein denaturation may occur with either an acid or base; however, natural proteins have a net negative charge. Thus, if brought below its isoelectric point it will loses its negative charge and falls apart (i.e., molecules start to repel each other). Proteins can also be destabilized with very high pH, thus bases or acids will work. However, household bleach is heavily diluted with tap water. I think the main problem is that bleach doesn't kill the roots on pourus surfaces. http://www.spore-tech.com/viewCategory. ... ategory=78

I have heard you can combine Vinegar with bleach for a really mean mixture. Of course I don't think that is a good idea due to the offgassing... I think you'd be making mustard gas? I suspect that this is because when you lower the pH on bleach to below 7, it changes from OCL- to HOCL, a strong disinfectant. White Vinegar is basically 5% acetic acid (pH ~2.4) so be careful around certain metals.

I also hear borax works.
 
Agree. However, in consideration of the thread and the killing of the mold (pursuant to conditions which exist at the time denaturation is to occur e.g. state, ambient temperature, solubility, labile property structures [mold=fungus]) - you will, IMO, achieve a far more superior result employing a basic substance then you ever will employing an acid on living mold - mole for mole, base versus acid. Just my opinion - done deal.
 
Significant to that study was the inability of the ELISA assay to demonstrate allergenic epitopes - which is, in and of itself - well, it's fine. However, one needs to consider the ELISA assays inherent limitation in defining what is considered to be the effective epitope of consideration (in this case - an allergen) they don't go further than TEM/ELISA - again, that's fine (i.e. funded by the Clorox company - what do you expect the results to yield). :mrgreen: :mrgreen: I have no issues w/ ELISA assays, have performed more than a normal person should have to employing radioactive IgG to follow the pathway - as long as the antibodies elicited to the epitopes match up to the protein's molecular structure you're golden.

Definitively, I'd want to see degradation of the protein (molecular) matrix comprising the epitope rather then a simple TEM/ELISA assay based upon what appears to be "size" - perhaps in some future thread.
 
Ha ha - thanks for the science lesson gentlemen!

I was poking around in the port sponson to replace the antisiphon valve and I'm again thinking about the mold. What's the consensus on making the effort to get into every possible orifice to remove the mold down below? Of course some places you will never reach, even with a mop or such. Assuming I can mix up the appropriate mustard gas (ha ha) what can I do to keep it from growing back over the course of the next season? I really don't want to keep all my doors open when I'm not on the boat (i.e. aft transom access doors, etc.)

Thanks
 
m2cw

You can add a little acid (vinegar) to bleach. Other factors to prevent growth are to lower humidity as best as you can, increase air flow and the contact time with the disinfectant which might take several minutes to more than a hour depending the degree of debris or material present. After the organisms are killed, staining maybe present and additional effort to remove it.
 
Aside from adding the vinegar to the bleach, I agree with Brent. The key to controlling mold is to control the moisture. Mold doesn't grow without moisture, of course, there aren't any organic organisms which can sustain life without moisture in the form of water. So, like Brent said, the key is to control the moisture - fans, etc.
I use bleach right out of the bottle to clean mold. Organic substances (organisms) are killed employing strong base substances. The strongest of which (for many households) is not going to be bleach, but instead will be found in Red Devil Lye, and other types of cleaners which contain STRONG base substances (e.g. sodium hydroxide [NaOH], potassium hydroxide, etc). Have a look at the ingrediments :mrgreen: You'll see Red Devil Lye highly concentrated in NaOH; and, materials like Drain-O, etc - which contain high concentrations of OH (hydroxide ions) and catalysts to accelerate the rxns (e.g. K=Potassium). These are extremely high (consumer-grade) concentrations of base compounds - they are very dangerous to the average consumer - but, they'll kill any organic substance without question.
The vinegar (weak acid) will modestly neutralize the base (consumer bleach=sodium hypochlorite). I'm not sure the vinegar would even be employed as a transport mechanism.
I routinely wash my boat with bleach and I employ a vinegar mixture after I use straight bleach to neutralize the effects of the bleach and wash away any residual bleach so it doesn't harm any of the other components by remaining/lurking around.
 
inegar increases killing power of bleach
Adding white vinegar to diluted household bleach greatly increases the disinfecting power of the solution, making it strong enough to kill even bacterial spores. Researchers from MicroChem Lab, Inc. in Euless, Texas, report their findings today at the 2006 ASM Biodefense Research Meeting.

Sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl) in the form of laundry bleach is available in most households. The concentrate is about 5.25 to 6 percent NaOCl, and the pH value is about 12. Sodium hypochlorite is stable for many months at this high alkaline pH value.

"Laundry bleach is commonly diluted about 10 to 25-fold with tap water to about 2000 to 5000 parts per million of free available chlorine for use as an environmental surface disinfectant, without regard to the pH value of the diluted bleach. However, the pH value is very important for the antimicrobial effectiveness of bleach," says Norman Miner, a researcher on the study.

At alkaline pH values of about 8.5 or higher, more than 90 percent of the bleach is in the form of the chlorite ion (OCl-), which is relatively ineffective antimicrobially. At acidic pH values of about 6.8 or lower, more than 80 percent of the bleach is in the form of hypochlorite (HOCl). HOCl is about 80 to 200 times more antimicrobial than OCl-.

"Bleach is a much more effective antimicrobial chemical at an acidic pH value than at the alkaline Ph value at which bleach is manufactured and stored. A small amount of household vinegar is sufficient to lower the pH of bleach to an acidic range," says Miner.

Miner and his colleagues compared the ability of alkaline (pH 11) and acidified (pH 6) bleach dilutions to disinfect surfaces contaminated with dried bacterial spores, considered the most resistant to disinfectants of all microbes. The alkaline dilution was practically ineffective, killing all of the spores on only 2.5 percent of the surfaces after 20 minutes. During the same time period the acidified solution killed all of the spores on all of the surfaces.

"Diluted bleach at an alkaline pH is a relatively poor disinfectant, but acidified diluted bleach will virtually kill anything in 10 to 20 minutes," says Miner. "In the event of an emergency involving Bacillus anthracis spores contaminating such environmental surfaces as counter tops, desk and table tops, and floors, for example, virtually every household has a sporicidal sterilant available in the form of diluted, acidified bleach."

Miner recommends first diluting one cup of household bleach in one gallon of water and then adding one cup of white vinegar.

from
American Society for Microbiology
 
Very good points! Routinely, we'd employ a mild acid for this same reason in laminar flow hoods whilst growing our cultures to kill bacteria which, if I'm not mistaken, is what ASM is suggesting; and, which nearly all lab facilities follow. However, my opinion having taken and studied some mycology, it's the bloody hyphae that are the toughest to kill (probably the same for the spores). Since, as you know, bacteria are single cell organisms, while molds are not. None-the-less, I agree with the ACS. But, myco hyphae and spores are probably the toughest to kill.
 
Another thought is biofilms. If the condition occurred over a period of time then probably a biofilm has developed. This will reduce the effectiveness of the disinfectant and required some physical scrubbing with the agent to breakdown the film and kill the organisms. m2cw
 
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