Charts

You won't find a paper chart anywhere on my boat. I have two permanent mapplotter GPS's. Then I have the backup, a handheld Garmin GPSMAP 76 with maps loaded. For the longer trips you will always find the widescreen laptop with Mapquest ready to go. I plan routing out before and during the trip with the laptop. I regularly boat in areas with 25 foot tide changes, I want to see a GPS generated picture of exactly where I'm at in relation to the many, many, rocks that cover and could rip a lower unit right off. It worked for me for years now exploring near coastal new places in Alaska every summer.

The only paper charts I own are mounted on the walls in the house and used for deocoration and dreaming up the next trip. I would never clutter up the boat with them.
 
This is an interesting read. I assumed C-Dory owners would be the hard core mariners with a sextant on their belt (he he). I look forward to my electronics upgrade in the next boat but I would always carry paper charts for my area. I want to plan my voyage on a desk with pencil, eraser, and slide rule and have it aboard as a backup. With that being said, I can't believe a decade ago I was flying airplanes without a gps...it's the best gadget I own!
 
Both. :mrgreen:

I like using paper charts for backup even though I will probably never have to rely on them exclusively. I enjoy the intellectual stimulation using them provides.

Warren
 
Just a question.

How many of you that use paper charts still use pencil and paper when communicating with your friends and relatives?

If you don’t anymore, why not?

________
Dave dlt.gif
 
When you go into Canada - i.e. the Gulf Islands, what is required as far as charts ?
I noticed on the CA GOV web site the following statement:
Charts and publications ^
Having charts and various publications such as Notices to Mariners, Sailing Directions and the List of Lights and Buoys and Fog Signals is required under the Charts and Nautical Publications Regulations. ...

Do you need paper charts - or can you just state that " I've uploaded all the charts in this area on my Chartplotter."
 
From the Canadian safe boating web site:

"The operator of a pleasure craft not propelled by oars shall have on board, in respect of each area in which the craft is to be navigated, as described in the Charts and Nautical Publications Regulations, the most recent editions of:

The largest scale charts
The required publications
The required documents
UNLESS ... the vessel is under 100 tonnes or the operator is familiar with the waterway "

since all of our C Dory boats are less than 100 tonnes we are exempted.

We got our charts from a friend who is skipper on a tug boat--they replace their charts and publications yearly. We always have either electronic charts of recent edition or paper charts--but not necessarilly both.
 
Wow - here's a good example where I agree COMPLETELY with oldgrowth Dave. (Dave has that happened before? :wink: ) I have on board a fixed mount GPS with excellent charts of the area loaded. I have a backup handheld GPS with spare batteries at all times. I have additional charts loaded on my computer. The only paper charts I have are those that came in guidebooks of those that are marked with good fishing locations. If I lose power on the boat, I can find my way back with the hand held GPS (especially if I leave it on when going out - I just follow the tracks back). I have a compass and radar. I firmly believe I have no need for charts and never will.
 
I see online where the US government plans to shut down GPS services in a terrorist attack or other military crisis. Electronic backup may not be too reliable in those circumstances.
 
I'll still have my CHARTS - electronically on both my GPS AND my computer! I just won't have the GPS to place me on the chart and I'll have to fend for myself just like you with the paper charts only with a compass and my computer. But heck if we're under attack, maybe I don't want to find my way back anyway - I'll anchor out and fish awhile longer. :lol:
 
I have GPS in all of my vehicles--use it some of the time for navigation--but I still use road maps, both for planing and if I am confused by the GPS..Not going to give up the road maps or Atlas!
 
Food for thought.
The Mis Dee has built in C-80 Garmin, I have Garmin M-4 loaded with Maptech Raster charts. I have the laptop with Maptech charts and a Maptech Gps antenna attached. Why would I carry paper? Because if you are blue water cruising, and you are using a hand held or a chartplotter. it puts you on the spot, live time. That is great , but many times you may want to see the big picture. What rocks or islands are off to one side or the other that you would like to be aware of. When you back off with electronic charts you have a tendency to lose details that may be of some importance to you. Using the Garmin or the chart plotter is great for close work like in the islands or the intercoastal. Two really good examples come to mind. In route to a sunken island off the coast of Mexico you come within 30 miles of the Tres Marias islands. ( Prison islands) The sunken islands are about 50 miles offshore in the Pacific. It is nice to know where you are at in relation to these islands. The Mexicans have no sense of humor pertaining to these islands. You must stand clear of these islands. I had a friend make the mistake of getting to close. It took him three days to get released. The other example we were going toward the Acklands in the Bahamas in the middle of the night on toward Great Iguana. Way off to the port was Hog sty reef. Looking at the big picture
( on paper) made me aware of my relationship to that interesting little horse shoe shaped reef. Not that either of them posed any danger in our passing. It just gave a good feeling as to where you really were in relation to solid ground. Not just lat and lons on electronic charts.

Captd
 
captd - I can do everything you described with your paper charts using my Garmin chart plotter/gps and also with my hand held. It is called zoom in, zoom out and scroll.

Paper charts do not give you any capability that I do not have with my electronic charts. However, I can do things with my electronic charts that you cannot do with paper charts.

There is nothing wrong with someone carrying paper charts it he/she wants them. Nevertheless, there is no advantage to having paper charts if a person has the proper chart plotter/gps and mastered the use of electronic charts.

________
Dave dlt.gif
 
How about No Charts. I spent my first several times out so glued to the chartplotter that I was missing the scenery. Last couple of times out I've turned off the chartplotter and just looked out the window. Maybe its worth hitting a few rocks to really enjoy the view.
Maybe I'm spending too much time on this computer and not enough on my boat. You know its not technology I'm against, but its losing, or never gaining the skills of seamanship that were learned before we had all these electronic security blankets.
Well - Saturday I leave for one full week on the boat, I'll have my chartplotter, my charts, and hopefully the sense to know when to put all of it away and enjoy the view.
Fair Winds to all.

Cheers,
Tom
 
“Thataway” and I touched on some of these issues in another thread (Kts/MPH) --Bob, I have been doing some research (see my post in What did you do ....?) and I’ll get back to you on the other thread.
After 9/11 a large number of coasties at our local station were sent to NY and other venues deemed more threatened than Wrightsville Beach (NC). I was already working at the station as an Auxiliarist, and the Officer-In-Charge asked me to take over the maintenance of the charts in the Watch Room and on the boats (a 41’ and a 47’ at the time). In the two years that I did this I was amazed at the number of changes, additions or deletions of aton’s, bridge construction, temporary discrepancies, etc., etc.
I had mostly done my boating in familiar local waters. Most of the local changes here were known to me and my boating colleagues as they ocurred. The station charts extended to waters well beyond those familiar to me. Suddenly I could see myself in unfamiliar waters facing an unexpectedly discontinued aton or some other disconcerting situation. Now, with our CD-22 in tow, we have widened our boating horizons south to the Keys and north to the Chesapeake.
As someone else pointed out, the Ocean Grafix charts are a great leap forward, as they incorporate all the changes (NtM & LNtM) to the current edition. With these paper charts, plus the necessary updates, I can go to Florida or Maryland with some confidence that what I see on the chart is what I get on the water.
What has not been mentioned is that, as far as I know, there is no procedure for updating electronic charts other than paying full price for a “new” disk. At least, as far as I can see, no company advertises any sort of update “subscription.” We are talking about bits, not atoms (as Nicolas Negroponte would say) so there would be next to no expense in allowing subscribers to download revisions.
The big CG cutters use electronic charts with a contract to obtain updates in the form of a “new” disk. Nevertheless, I have been asked to do paper chartwork for Diligence when she was headed to an unfamiliar port, and for Staten Island, in preparation for scallop fishery enforcement in the North Atlantic. On the station boats we use paper charts, in part because each Coxswain needs to keep a record of positions, courses steered, etc.
The whole issue hinges on whether you boat in familiar waters, where you would know how to cope with the unexpected. Unfamiliar waters are another matter.
I think that any process or method must stand on its own merits. Being an “advance” in technology, whether 8-track tapes or a supersonic airliner, supposedly superior to previous practice, has been no guarantee of actual progress. The current system of chartplotter software is actually a step backward, since it is impossible to update. To be sure, quite a few boaters can’t be bothered with updating their paper charts either, but it can be done. Anyone navigating unfamilar waters with outdated information will likely be standing into danger at some point.
It should be fairly easy to develop a subscription system in which updates could be downloaded to a laptop and ultimately directly to the chartplotter, once there is a shakeout of the multiple proprietary systems now in use.
 
Both C map Navionics and Garmin all have chart chip upgrade programs. There is a fee, and you exchange the chip for the updated. The peroids of up dates vary from a 6 months to over a year. EIN on the internet should be up to date, as they are related to "Print on Demand". I have the entire coast of the US on one DVD which cost $39--and these are updated as they are released.

To my knowlege the Lorance and other hard drive charts are not upgraded. But it would be fairly easy to do this, if there is the demand, and since these plotters are farily new, the manufacter may come out with a program.

Not only ATM are often wrong on chart chips, but at times whole islands are out of place as are shoals--see some of the old Panbo's posts on all of this. However, most of the chip makers are open to suggestions and when I have reported a discrepancy it has been corrected in the next edition.

On the other hand, Local Notice to Mariners are not up to date at all. I recently posted a thread on shoaling and loss of a vessel in the Great Lakes, where none of this is noted on either the EIN or the LNTM. So we all do with what we have. I have cruised all over the world with charts which were often way out of date--by many years. When possiable I got light lists which were current, but most of the time it was eyeball navigation.

I have noted this before--a chart plotter or chart is only one of many aids we use in piloting our vessels. I like to have my chart plotter just below the line of sight out of the pilot house window. That way, I am looking out of the window all of the time, and the chart is in my peripheral vision-when I switch focus to the chart, the view is in the peripheral vision.
 
Bob, I don't have experience with having a chartplotter mounted low like you describe, but I like having that shelf (dashboard) free to put my paper chart :shock: on which I frequently reference at the same time I look at the chartplotter screen.

Returning to the paper vs. plastic debate for a minute, it occurred to me that this debate is quite similar to the human factors discipline that was one of the many software engineering areas that I wrote about for 10+ years in my column. One of the important ground rules that evolved over time was the realization that software should be designed, for example, to be used both by people who prefer the mouse and those who prefer the keyboard. Another example is whether the software accepts a hierarchical ordering of data or whether it will accept random entries. The bottom line is that people just function better when the software interface adapts to them, rather than requiring a rigid one-model-fits-all approach.

So, Dave (Oldgrowth) is entirely correct when he says that chartplotters are all that are needed -- for him. Bob is entirely correct when he says that he needs both. Whatever floats your boat and gets you through the cruise is the right choice.

Warren
 
Hey it was food for thought,
Oldgrowth, there is one thing paper will do that you cannot display on electronic charts. SIZE, How big a screen do you have? Paper charts really are the big pictures. Would you agree to that? Maybe this day and age with all the new tech. People have forgotten how to plot a course on paper. I have to admit that I rarely use paper any more, but Mis Dee likes to look ahead, so she can bug me about something.
More food for thought
Captd
PS: Maptech upgrades thier charts (raster) with new tide info and any change or notice to Marinars on cd's, Last time I paid $25.00
 
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