nomadcruiser53
New member
A few questions about paper charts even though electronic is so good these days. Do you carry paper charts onboard always? Do you makes notes or marks on them as changes are posted as NOTMARs or add printed notices?
Charts
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nomadcruiser53
New member
I'm collecting charts now so I don't have to buy a ton of them all at once. Also wondering how many charts you folks end up owning on an average.
Yes, we always carry charts--we own several hundred (Entire Gulf coast, Galveston thru Keys, to Carolinas, Upper East Coast, Ten Tom, Mississippi and Ill, Tenn, Ohio Ken river. Entire West Coast Enseneda to Icey Straits AK. Inland lakes we frequent are also represented.--and I just shipped off a few hundred. We only carry what we need on the boat.
We no longer keep up the NTM. Depends on what we are doing--if local, we don't make plots. If a distance from home, at least note in the log book position or mark passed.
We no longer keep up the NTM. Depends on what we are doing--if local, we don't make plots. If a distance from home, at least note in the log book position or mark passed.
We always keep paper charts on the boat for the area we are in. I find that charts useful for cruise planning and to get a "bird's eye" view of an unfamiliar area. They are also useful for showing our route and current position to guests.
Regarding NTM, "Print on demand" or POD charts are now widely available. They have the latest NTM already included and are more up-to-date than the charts bought off the shelf at West MArine etc.
Regarding NTM, "Print on demand" or POD charts are now widely available. They have the latest NTM already included and are more up-to-date than the charts bought off the shelf at West MArine etc.
mikeporterinmd
New member
We primarily cruise the Chesapeake and so keep a Chesapeake Bay
chart book on board.
A few weeks ago, we were heading up a river that I hadn't been
to in a while (Chester). I couldn't get the electronic chart to display the
river name for some reason. I had to cross check with paper so I
knew I was heading for the right point. It wasn't that I would have been
lost, but I didn't want to head inland for a point only to discover it
was not the mouth of the river. Was a rough riding day, and I didn't
want to extend the trip with silly nav errors.
So, unless you have a giant chart plotter that never fails and never
confuses you, I would carry paper. Generally, we do not carry
NOAA printed charts, though. However, if we go on the Delaware
Bay, we need to use NOAA charts since there are no books that
adequately cover the Delaware that I know of.
Mike
chart book on board.
A few weeks ago, we were heading up a river that I hadn't been
to in a while (Chester). I couldn't get the electronic chart to display the
river name for some reason. I had to cross check with paper so I
knew I was heading for the right point. It wasn't that I would have been
lost, but I didn't want to head inland for a point only to discover it
was not the mouth of the river. Was a rough riding day, and I didn't
want to extend the trip with silly nav errors.
So, unless you have a giant chart plotter that never fails and never
confuses you, I would carry paper. Generally, we do not carry
NOAA printed charts, though. However, if we go on the Delaware
Bay, we need to use NOAA charts since there are no books that
adequately cover the Delaware that I know of.
Mike
When I had a sailboat I used the paper charts and guide books.
Now I like the guide books as I have ess room to store things. I am
spoiled with the chart plotter but will say it does have errors so
using both is the way I have been going. I never did keep up to
date with chart changes or for that matter had fresh charts.
You will figure out what works best for you. Always be safe.
Bob Heselberg in Eatonville Wa
Now I like the guide books as I have ess room to store things. I am
spoiled with the chart plotter but will say it does have errors so
using both is the way I have been going. I never did keep up to
date with chart changes or for that matter had fresh charts.
You will figure out what works best for you. Always be safe.
Bob Heselberg in Eatonville Wa
El and Bill
New member
Dave -
Carrying paper charts is prudent -- anything electronic can fail. If you know your waters, you can probably cruise safely after an electronic failure, but in unfamiliar or difficult water, paper is a safety backup.
In some areas we know, we use our handheld GPS as a backup for the boat's chartplotter -- electronic failure is backed up by a battery-powered system separate from the boat's system.
Carrying paper charts is prudent -- anything electronic can fail. If you know your waters, you can probably cruise safely after an electronic failure, but in unfamiliar or difficult water, paper is a safety backup.
In some areas we know, we use our handheld GPS as a backup for the boat's chartplotter -- electronic failure is backed up by a battery-powered system separate from the boat's system.
Regarding paper as a supplement to (or instead of) electronics. I suggested to my son that I need an engine hour meter. He said he could save me a couple hundred bucks. I thought he was going to put it in for me. Instead he presented me with a small notebook and a pencil. Darn if it doesn't work!
People are slow to accept new technology but with the next generation of boaters, very few will ever carry or use paper charts.
In the 70’s and up to about 4 years ago, I had just about a complete set of paper Topographical maps and Ortho photos for Washington State and a large portion of Oregon. I no longer use or even look at them. With electronic photos and maps, I do not see any reason to carry paper with me.
For the boat, I have a chart plotter with the charts I need and I have a Dell hand held with charts and maps as a back up.
I would bet many people that have paper charts could not locate themselves within 100 feet on the chart.
________
Dave
In the 70’s and up to about 4 years ago, I had just about a complete set of paper Topographical maps and Ortho photos for Washington State and a large portion of Oregon. I no longer use or even look at them. With electronic photos and maps, I do not see any reason to carry paper with me.
For the boat, I have a chart plotter with the charts I need and I have a Dell hand held with charts and maps as a back up.
I would bet many people that have paper charts could not locate themselves within 100 feet on the chart.
________
Dave
I use my chart plotter and my charts together. For example, in coming up to the Gulf Islands I used the chart plotter to get the detailed picture and the paper charts to orient myself to the larger picture. I can't speak for anyone else but it works well for me. I also carry a hand-held Lowrance GPS with a coastal chip in it as backup.
Warren
Warren
I zoom out also but sometimes I find it helpful to be able to look at both views (zoomed and not) at the same time. That is where the paper charts come in handy.
Plus, it's all part of learning to be a sailor/boater, I think. I might learn celestial navigation someday, just because.
Warren
Plus, it's all part of learning to be a sailor/boater, I think. I might learn celestial navigation someday, just because.
Warren
Dave,
I don't know how it is in BC, but those MapQuest waterproof books with a disk for $49 US are pretty good packages for large areas. Acquiring paper charts much in advance can result in out of date maps. I just bought some Galveston Offshore and Bay charts in June which had the first notice on them of oyster beds, offshore fish farms, protected fishing areas etc, for our July trip.
I have Raymarine E charts which are nice, but those little portable gps units( I have a Lowrance iFinder H2Oc and a Garmin Nuvi) are great in that they give you the addresses, emails, phone numbers, etc, of the closest fuel, groceries, repairs, restaurants, etc.. The Mapquest waterproof books give details of all the marinas, their services, as well as their radio channels, hours, and phone numbers.
Mapquest, Raymarine and others have the discs you can use on your laptop whick allow "previewing" or practicing at home before you leave. Whether paper or electronic, I like to highlight risky areas and possible, close, safe havens into which we could duck should an unfriendly wind, a storm, or mechanical problem come up unexpectedly. That way you're not scrambling in the dark in a storm or drifting with no idea of which way to safety.
Paper charts are easier to work over with colored high-liters.
John
I don't know how it is in BC, but those MapQuest waterproof books with a disk for $49 US are pretty good packages for large areas. Acquiring paper charts much in advance can result in out of date maps. I just bought some Galveston Offshore and Bay charts in June which had the first notice on them of oyster beds, offshore fish farms, protected fishing areas etc, for our July trip.
I have Raymarine E charts which are nice, but those little portable gps units( I have a Lowrance iFinder H2Oc and a Garmin Nuvi) are great in that they give you the addresses, emails, phone numbers, etc, of the closest fuel, groceries, repairs, restaurants, etc.. The Mapquest waterproof books give details of all the marinas, their services, as well as their radio channels, hours, and phone numbers.
Mapquest, Raymarine and others have the discs you can use on your laptop whick allow "previewing" or practicing at home before you leave. Whether paper or electronic, I like to highlight risky areas and possible, close, safe havens into which we could duck should an unfriendly wind, a storm, or mechanical problem come up unexpectedly. That way you're not scrambling in the dark in a storm or drifting with no idea of which way to safety.
Paper charts are easier to work over with colored high-liters.
John
We never leave home without paper charts. Electronics are wonderful but I am leary of their failure and I just feel like I get a whole lot better perspective sometimes with the chart. Unless we are very close to home waters, I will almost always consult the chart a few times during a trip.
Another item we carry are both hard and soft back guide books. We buy the Waterway guide's. Recently a bunch of the folks who have been on Trawler World are involved with the guides, so they seem to be much more up to date. There used to be a guide book for Alaska--fellow had a CHB 34 and went up the inland passage each year. The Douglas-Hemmingway books are also fairly accurate guide books, but I don't think are kept up to date.
Skipper Bob's books are excellent--Many guide books, have web sites, and often these are more up to date than the charts--for example Claiborne Young--Salty South East--with daily updates from cruisers.
Skipper Bob's books are excellent--Many guide books, have web sites, and often these are more up to date than the charts--for example Claiborne Young--Salty South East--with daily updates from cruisers.
tom&shan
New member
oldgrowth":rz8db57b said:People are slow to accept new technology but with the next generation of boaters, very few will ever carry or use paper charts.
Dave
And therein lies the demise of Western Civilization. When the power goes out they will all be in the dark. As a technocrat turned Luddite I would never venture out without papercharts. Even then I tell myself, dont count on the charts, look, feel, smell, know the currents, know where you are on the water, and learn how to explore. We spend too much time in front of these LCD, Cathode tubes. Cut the umbilical cord of technology, as a newbie to this craft of navigation, its the stars, the wind and the waves I yearn to steer by, not the Electronic Chartplotter.
(and actually, as my wife reminds me to ask, next time I go aground can someone give me a tow.)
Cheers,
Tom
Pat Anderson
New member
My $0.02 worth, from a person who started boating only in 2003. Paper charts are a throw-back to the days when you had to log speed - time - course, calculate distance, and plot it on the chart to know where you were (we got a taste of it in the Power Squadron Boating Course)... some mariners were good at it and some were not I'm sure. With a GPS chartplotter I always know exactly where I am on earth and in relation to the location of rocks, reefs and other hazards. I have a battery operated handheld GPS chartplotter as a backup. Unless the government turns off the satellites, I will be OK. I still have onboard he MapTech Waterproof Chartbooks for Puget Sound and the San Juans, the Evergreen Pacific Cruising Atlas, and the big chartbook 3313 for the Gulf Islands. My most useful paper "charts" however, and don't laugh here, are the San Juan and Gulf Island "placemat" charts. They are detailed enough to see how to get to where we want to go from where we are - the chartplotter keeps us in deep water and avoid hazards. The three tons of paper charts the old guys took on the Alaska cruise last year were just dead weight...
I'll tell my story about my first chart plotter (and charts on computer). I had picked up a trawler in Stuart Florida. I had been planing on the paper charts, but why should I when I have the computer and the chart plotter?--I laid out my course for a day, and imagine my surprise when I came to a fixed bridge, which I had assumed was a lift bridge? It turns out that we had about 2" to spare. But from then on I went back to planning on charts--it allows me to see the "big picture" plus the important details!
If the chart plotter goes down, you really have to have the paper charts and it is very nice to have a way to determine lat and long--the hand held will give this. Of course--there are both large yachts, and even a ferry or cruise ship which go around on the inland passage each year because they don't pay attention....
If the chart plotter goes down, you really have to have the paper charts and it is very nice to have a way to determine lat and long--the hand held will give this. Of course--there are both large yachts, and even a ferry or cruise ship which go around on the inland passage each year because they don't pay attention....
nomadcruiser53
New member
I have to agree that for peace of mind, a fella needs paper charts. I ordered some today for the local waters our retirement home is on. Now all I need is the boat 
Come on retirement!!!
Come on retirement!!!News Flash – when the power goes out you will not boating.tom&shan":272kwdn4 said:
A good chart plotter with good charts/maps allow me to do both.thataway":272kwdn4 said:
That is what the hand held is for. It has more charts and maps than my Garmin 3205 has. Just a smaller screen.thataway":272kwdn4 said:
________
Dave
