Changed my Drum brakes to Disc

J

John S

New member
Hi guys,

This spring I changed all the brakes on my EZ-Loader trailer for my TC24. I changed from Drum to Disc. I went with the Kodiak brand brakes and so far they have worked out wonderfully. They should after around a $1000 for all four wheels and an actuator.


Previously I spent $200 on a spare drum brake assembly that I kept with me in case of a break down. I don't need it anymore. I've put it on E-Bay and only one person has looked. I started it at .99. If you still have drum brakes and want a spare this could be a chance to get one CHEAP!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... OTORS:1123
 
You might want to carry an extra caliper for your disc brakes . We have disc brakes and the caliper froze up this summer on our trip to Tennessee. We do not have Kodiak brakes but another brand tie down.The next long trip i take i will take a caliper with me
 
Interesting point. I haven't bought a spare for the discs yet, for some reason I didn't even think about it. The drum brake system was definitely a little more needy of maintainance.

It would sure be a pricey spare but when you need it, you REALLY need it.

Not a single person has bid on my drum brake kit yet even though it starts at only $1. I opened the box and looked further and it is actually TWO assemblies, a left and a right side. I wish I would have found a deal like that when I was shopping!!
 
I've had one Kodiak caliper failure in the 5 yrs we've owned Journey On. The piston froze in the caliper bore, and dragged until the disk pushed it out. Not a big deal and after we got home I replaced it here: Kodiak caliper for $85.

The best part of the brake system is the electric/hydraulic brakes. We have a Carlisle Controller but this one is cheaper: Titan Brake controller . I love the operation of those brakes. Though you might wait and see how the surge brakes work since those controllers aren't free.

Boris
 
I read somewhere that you can't put oil bath bearings on a disc brake trailer but have to use grease bearings. Can anyone verify this?

Warren
 
Doryman":16e0vnih said:
I read somewhere that you can't put oil bath bearings on a disc brake trailer but have to use grease bearings. Can anyone verify this?

Warren
Click to expand...

Probably has to do with the high temperature generated by the constant drag of disc brakes, and the very high temperatures encountered during downhill runs, and even related brake problems and failures

I think the answer depends on who you ask (!)

The manufacturers and dealers don't say you can't use them with disc brakes, but a lot of the discussion on websites seems to.

I think they can be used successfully, but you should carefully monitor your hub temperatures if you do!

Of course, you should do the monitoring whether you have grease or oil bath hubs, but if you not going to do so, you'd better stick with the grease, because the oil bath ones will lock up the bearings much faster if the plastic see-through hub covers or seals fail.

Some folks have reported that some form of failure occurred because the oil bath temperature got so high it melted the plastic hub covers!

This may well have been preceded by some other form of failure, such as a piston sticking in the calipers, but you'd still get further with grease and metal covers than plastic and oil !


Joe. :teeth :thup
 
My EZLoader trailer came stock with oil bath bearings, which I have flushed once. No issues or problems these last three years. Hard to see how even some pad drag would seriously heat up the bearings. There is a lot of metal in the rotor assembly, and in the rims themselves.

How common is an overheat problem with disc brakes if you don't sit on the pedal going down hill??
 
Doryman, I'd like to know why you're asking the question. Are you planning to make any changes to a trailer or is this just a curiosity question? Either way is OK, but I can give several views.

Like Astoria Dave, have had and enjoyed oil bath hubs for 5 years. With disk brakes.

Boris
 
journey on":1dluheox said:
Doryman, I'd like to know why you're asking the question. Are you planning to make any changes to a trailer or is this just a curiosity question? Either way is OK, but I can give several views.

Like Astoria Dave, have had and enjoyed oil bath hubs for 5 years. With disk brakes.

Boris
Click to expand...

Boris, the original discussion reminded me of something I had read earlier. I think it might have been in the Boat/US trailering magazine. I will look for it as I may have torn it out and saved it. I converted my Tom Cat trailer from surge to electric and have had my eye on the bearing issue since then, but no immediate plans to change over.

Warren
 
Well, I certainly wouldn't change over from grease to oil (or vice versa,) but the oil bath works well.

As mentioned elsewhere, just repaired and repaired and repaired my disk brakes, including a stuck caliper as covered here:Trailer Bearings. Never noted any problems with overheating. Problems were in finding non-Chinese bearings, shims for the oil seals and decent brake lines.

The EZ Loader factory said they now use aluminum caps. Don't know how you check the level there. You do need good oil seals, but the factory seals work. Note that EZ Loader recommends 50 wt gear oil. That oil is the same as is used in a differential, and it lubes those bearings well.

Boris
 
Are drum brakes on boat trailers pretty much obsolete now?

On cars, first there were front disk brakes, now everything is four-wheel disk brakes...motorcycles abandoned drum brakes entirely probably 15 years ago...

Can you even buy a new decent boat trailer with drum brakes nowadays?

Is that perhaps the reason for the lack of eBay bidders?

Just wondering...I don't own a trailer at present, and am pretty much out of touch...but my various friends with newer utility trailers, and enclosed toy-haulers...I think none of them have drum brakes...
 
OK, I found the article. It was not in Boat/US Trailering but rather in DIY Boat Owner. The article is "Your Boat: Grease vs. Oil" by Lenny Rudow and the relevant paragraph is:

But there are also downsides [to oil filled bearings]. Oil-filled bearings may allow condensation to form in the hub, ultimately leading to bearing failure. They are also more expensive than conventional bearings, and they won't work with solid rotor disc brakes.
Click to expand...

So there you have it. I did not originally mention the solid rotor aspect, and I don't know if that applies to my disc brakes or not.

Warren
 
I have changed the calipers on my boat several times the last time I thought that I would see why they keep freezing up the pucks that push on the brake pad has a square o-ring in a grove in it ,I carefully removed the o-ring and under it there was a build up of green junk after removeing this and buffing the puck it worked like new this is something anyone can do and save some money on calipers. The build up makes the puck freeze and it will not move back and forth like its should its a little messie but anyone should be able to do it.
UncleRichie
 
A couple of comments.

Warren, I'm not sure on what Lenny Rudow based his statement.

There are not different roller bearings for grease vs oil lubrication. Some may have different seals, but all trailer bearings of which I know are unsealed roller bearings. How you lubricate them is up to the user. So the lube is dependent on the hub in which the bearings are installed. I have 2 trailers, one with oil lubricated hubs and one with grease lubricated hubs. The inner hub seals are the same. The difference between the two hubs is the hub cap. For grease, which is a thickened lubricant, it's a press-on cap. For oil it's a o-ring sealed cap, since oil leaks easier. So there is a small difference in cost, in threading the hub for an oil cap and the simpler stamped grease cap.

As far as lubrication goes, both grease and oil depend on hydrodynamic action; that is, the rollers pull the lubricant between the rollers and track so as to ride on a lubricant cushion, as well as being cooled. Further, the differential of all cars and trucks contain a plethora of bearings and gears. As in a trailer hub the bearings carry the weight of the vehicle and in addition handle the torque required to drive the vehicle. All differentials to my knowledge require oil.

As to the disk brakes, venting should cool the rotor. Looking at the disks on the EZ Loader trailer, they have a 1/4 groove cast into the periphery. That's not vented and the oil bath system works fine. The bearing failure wasn't from lack of lubricant, but from bearing wearout.

Again, the DIY Boat Owner statement appears to be just an opinion. I would enjoy reading that article, but I don't subscribe to that journal.

Next, UncleRichie,

I'm sure everybody but me knows how, but how did you extract the frozen pistons?

Boris
 
Can we assume that grease is more forgiving than oil (for trailer bearings), in the event that the cap leaks, or falls off? Meaning more residual lube following a component failure.

What's the advantage of oil, vs. pressurized grease ("Bearing Buddy")?
 
Karl":1of2akyt said:
Can we assume that grease is more forgiving than oil (for trailer bearings), in the event that the cap leaks, or falls off? Meaning more residual lube following a component failure.

What's the advantage of oil, vs. pressurized grease ("Bearing Buddy")?
Click to expand...

As to the first question, that's the general assumption shared by most folks, see my last sentence is the post I made 8 posts above. I don't know if it ever been scientifically tested and proven though (!)

The second question, brings up another assumption, probably! Namely that oil is more free to travel into the bearing surfaces. But the grease in a Bearing Buddy type set up is pressurized, so who knows? On the other hand, the oil is a hypoid type, which means it resists being wiped off surfaces. This lubricant type was developed when hypoid gears were designed to allow the lowering of drive lines to lower auto interior floors and cars in the 1950's. Hypoid gears have a wiping action to their surfaces.

Probably doesn't matter which lubricant you have as long as the bearings are of good condition and you keep the lubricant where it's supposed to be and the water out.... Duh!!! :lol:

Just my 2¢!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I have used grease, because I am familiar with the system, and can easily repair it--and parts are almost universally available. It was mentioned that EZ loader uses 50 weight oil--and that was simllar to differential oil. All of the differentials I have dealt with used a special oil which was at least 75 on up to 125 weight. 50 weight seems light to me, but if that is what EZ loader uses OK-(I have no knowledge of this). There can be a problem with the oil filled bearings and condensation--which seems to cause pitting when mixed with the oil. If the brakes are used regularly, this is less of a problem. However, the recreational boater will often use the trailer, and then let it sit for months without use. During this peroid, there is more of a risk of pitting.

As to the outer seals--it depens on the type of grease bearings. Without the buddy bearings (which many trailers come with), yes just the cap is the seal--and is adequate. Grease does not leak out as long as the cap and hub are in good condition. The buddy bearing, uses a seal, along the "piston" which is spring loaded--and keeps the grease under slight some pressure. This has a rubber skirt which forms the seal.

The probelm with disc brakes is that they do heat up--and I had the problem with dragging pads, causing over heating and bearing failure. I do check the temp with and IR thermometer every 2 hours, but often it happens that you cannot check every two hours. I had repacked the bearings, and the disc pads seemed to have been working properly. But after a long down hill grade apparently there was overheating. This does not mean that i use the brakes--in fact I rarely use the servcie brakes on the truck--but even the compression of an engine braking effect, will accentuate the trailer surge brakes. This speaks for electric over hydraulic brakes on heavier trailers, especially when doing the long grades which are frequent in the West.

Incidently, I agree that Kodiac brakes are definately superior to some of the other brands.
 
For my personality type, the Bearing Buddy, along with an easily accessible
mini grease-gun, is the best compromise. Combined with annual inspection, and a hand-check for bearing temperature during every use of the trailer.

And, carry a spare hub and bearing set while traveling, with appropriate tools.

Or, ignore all of above, and rely on credit card and list of towing companies in the area.

I like the concept of positive pressure within the hub, since without it, a vacuum is created when the bearings hit relatively cold water, which tends to draw water in.
 
Don't know where the 50W info on EZL oil-filled hubs came from. My manual specifies 90 W, and that's what I put in there when I serviced the hubs.

As to grease versus oil -- if the blame things heat up, I bet the grease gets liquefied darn quick!
 
Bob, I don't understand the concern of condensation, which should be the same for grease and oil. I assume that you mean that air comes in and out via a vent and thus moisture in the air condenses, settles out and works it's way to the bearings. There it would rust the bearing surface, which would certainly cause pitting.

For an oil filled hub, the hub is sealed which prevents both the flow of air in and out of the hub cavity as well as external oil leaks. So from where does the condensate come? I've launched Journey On for 5 years and never found any indication of water in the oil.

Please note that all differentials have a vent tube to allow for expansion when the differential gets hot. those vents should be routed (and are, in my vehicles) up into the frame. That does allow for cool air to be sucked in and perhaps cause condensation. I've never heard of this happening, though I've seen differentials run underwater and that was a mess.

And, yes I lied about using 50 wt oil. That's recommended by Reliant, the hub mfg. The EZ loader people suggest 85 wt gear oil, and that's what I have in there.

Please understand I have nothing against grease lubricated hubs, indeed I have several of those:2 trucks, 2 trailers. However oil filled hubs are their equivalent and the hubs on Journey On have never overheated. I would think that if you had hubs that required continuous monitoring, somethings wrong.

Nuf sed, Boris
 
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