Camper Canvas-forward leaning main bow?

[Capt Harpoon]

I am interested in having camper canvas made for our 22 Cruiser and need some advice.
About six weeks ago I made up a photo album of camper canvas I liked from your photos. I relied heavily on Foggy Dew, Valkyrie, Berta’s Boy, and others, and thank you all (we decided against the fixed aluminum frame like Brazo and SeaDation). I added text to your photos and emailed the (large) file to five canvas makers. Response time ranged from less than 60 seconds (a phone call from Canvas Unique, Nashville, TN) to about six weeks and counting.
Today a canvas maker came by and measured the boat to give me an accurate cost estimate. She had a suggestion on how to make the canvas that I have never seen before and I wonder if you have.
All of the canvas I have seen has the largest bow leaning aft, most often with a fixed support brace tube anchored in the vicinity of the lazarette hatches. One or two shorter bows come off this and fold out forward. This seems to be a very standard canvas arrangement.
This canvas maker suggested we consider having the largest bow leaning forward, with the smaller bows folding out towards the stern. There would be no fixed rear brace tube. She suggested this would keep the stern area more uncluttered for fishing or to get to the lazarettes, fuel fills, and stern cleats. Instead of a fixed rear brace tube, there would be a forward one (or two). The forward bow would be connected to the cabin top with a short piece of fixed tubing or two (either one centered over the cabin door or one on each side of the cabin door). This would provide a fixed, free-standing top, and the clear panel between the bimini and the cabin top (similar to C-Byrd) could still be removed for maximum ventilation. When stowed, the canvas would fold up towards the cabin, and be tall enough so as not to interfere with stepping up on the step to get on a dock or go forward (she is going to work up the measurements and double check this).
Does anyone have this arrangement, or have you seen it? What are the potential implications for fishing? putting a dingy on top? a radar arch? rocket launchers? Any obvious pros or cons to this arrangement? I suppose it is not appreciably different from those of you who disconnect the rear support and lean your bimini forward for fishing. Would this work as the “normal” arrangement? Would it interfere with grabbing the roof rails to walk forward?
Thank you in advance for your thoughts!

 

[Les Lampman]

The biggest problem I can see is that it will severely limit ingress and egress. The main bow (now leaning forward) will go across the area just behind the cabin that is usually used to board and leave the boat. At the best, one will have to stoop very low under the bow, which would be a problem for many folks.

Since I've done a lot of canvas designing I'll write a lot more Friday when I have more time with some other thoughts.

Les

I am interested in having camper canvas made for our 22 Cruiser and need some advice.
About six weeks ago I made up a photo album of camper canvas I liked from your photos. I relied heavily on Foggy Dew, Valkyrie, Berta’s Boy, and others, and thank you all (we decided against the fixed aluminum frame like Brazo and SeaDation). I added text to your photos and emailed the (large) file to five canvas makers. Response time ranged from less than 60 seconds (a phone call from Canvas Unique, Nashville, TN) to about six weeks and counting.
Today a canvas maker came by and measured the boat to give me an accurate cost estimate. She had a suggestion on how to make the canvas that I have never seen before and I wonder if you have.
All of the canvas I have seen has the largest bow leaning aft, most often with a fixed support brace tube anchored in the vicinity of the lazarette hatches. One or two shorter bows come off this and fold out forward. This seems to be a very standard canvas arrangement.
This canvas maker suggested we consider having the largest bow leaning forward, with the smaller bows folding out towards the stern. There would be no fixed rear brace tube. She suggested this would keep the stern area more uncluttered for fishing or to get to the lazarettes, fuel fills, and stern cleats. Instead of a fixed rear brace tube, there would be a forward one (or two). The forward bow would be connected to the cabin top with a short piece of fixed tubing or two (either one centered over the cabin door or one on each side of the cabin door). This would provide a fixed, free-standing top, and the clear panel between the bimini and the cabin top (similar to C-Byrd) could still be removed for maximum ventilation. When stowed, the canvas would fold up towards the cabin, and be tall enough so as not to interfere with stepping up on the step to get on a dock or go forward (she is going to work up the measurements and double check this).
Does anyone have this arrangement, or have you seen it? What are the potential implications for fishing? putting a dingy on top? a radar arch? rocket launchers? Any obvious pros or cons to this arrangement? I suppose it is not appreciably different from those of you who disconnect the rear support and lean your bimini forward for fishing. Would this work as the “normal” arrangement? Would it interfere with grabbing the roof rails to walk forward?
Thank you in advance for your thoughts!

 

[NORO LIM]

I agree with Les. (Always a safe bet.) I'm on the tall side and even 40 years ago wasn't the most flexible guy around. Jumping to the dock during a dicey landing is difficult enough for me even with the more standard canvas arrangement. I will sometimes partially unzip the canvas along the back of the cabin roof line just to make my Polaris missile-like exit from the cockpit. That is of course, if I've remembered to do it before things are already out of control . . .

Maybe your designer can avoid interfering with ingress and egress, but I would take a very close look at this issue. Imagine getting in and out in a hurry and from docks at varying levels above or below your gunwales.

 

[Captains Cat]

Mine leans forward and the alum one is being replaced soon with SS. It doesn't have to come so close to the cabin that it interferes with ingress/egress.

But then I have a TC255, the bimini top is 8X8.

Charlie

 

[nimrod]

I remove all my canvas and stainless framing when I go fishing (for salmon). Just don't want to have any of that stuff in the way when I'm battling a fish.


jd

 

[thataway]

Above are the photos of my Tom Cat Bimini and camper back. In this instance the major bow is aft, but both have rigid support, and you could have the front be the one which they fold against. It may be a bit hard to see the forward supports, but they are almost identical to the aft ones. I would strongly recommend 1" SS tubing.

Do consider that you want to have a good opening for access. In New York (where I presume you live)--you have some hot summer weather, and want ventillation, and easy access with removable pannel forward, but I would not want a clear top forward pannel because of the greenhouse effect. The clear top may be great in the PNW or where it is cooler and you want the green house effect. The open area for ventillation is important if it is hot.

In some boats the rigid support is better than straps, The rigid support forward makes a nice hand hold--and you could fold the top forward. I would not use supports against the cabin house--at least forward--also remember that you may want to be sure that you have good headroom under the Bimini. There is a vinyl awning railing which a bolt rope and zipper fits into at the cabin top--use zippers and velcro flap over the forward removable fly. Note the detail of plastic awning railing on the sides of the boat, with zippers, rather than just snaps. This makes the upper part water tight--and spray will not get in the boat from the forward sides.

Generally the dinghy is brought up from the side of the boat and then pivoted in place.

In our C Dory 22, we had a slide for the lower brace and the top would lie down aft with the bows on the top or just inside of the forward part of the splashwell. On my catamaran 18 foot Center console, we have a Bimini which folds down forward and fits inside of where the casting platform is. This also allows full access for fishing.

 

[starcrafttom]

my only suggestions is to use quick release mounts. No pins to pull or lose. just pull back on the tab and the mount point on the end of the tube comes right off. This is great if you have a spare set of mount up near the cabin wall. I used this on the 22 to fold the top flat against the cabin wall while fishing, but still have it on the boat for anchoring out.
look behind Susan. the top is flat against the wall and does not interfere with getting in and out of the boat.

Also make sure that the top at the cabin zips from the out side edge to the center on each side. This really helps with getting in and out.

on edit: heres a link to the itemhttp://www.thefind.com/sports/info-quick-release-bimini-top-hinge#page=2

 

[Jazzmanic]

Yes, we have the quick release mounts on our camperback and they work great. I also like the mounts close to the bulkhead like Tom mentioned. I think the people who did Tom and Susan's boat did ours as well. Canvas Riggers. Too bad they went out of business.

But the real reason for my post. Tom, I want to see the fish Susan caught!!

Sorry to hijack the thread. Now back to the regularly scheduled program...

 

[Les Lampman]

That's a beautiful design there Dr. Austin. :thup

Above are the photos of my Tom Cat Bimini and camper back. In this instance the major bow is aft, but both have rigid support, and you could have the front be the one which they fold against. It may be a bit hard to see the forward supports, but they are almost identical to the aft ones. I would strongly recommend 1" SS tubing.

 

[Les Lampman]

The biggest problem I can see is that it will severely limit ingress and egress. The main bow (now leaning forward) will go across the area just behind the cabin that is usually used to board and leave the boat. At the best, one will have to stoop very low under the bow, which would be a problem for many folks.

Since I've done a lot of canvas designing I'll write a lot more Friday when I have more time with some other thoughts.

Les

One of the easiest ways to deal with the top in your way is to make use of Accon Marine Quick release fittings.

I designed the C-Dory and Rosborough camper canvas that the Canvas Riggers did and I specified the use of the Accon 401 quick release fittings (http://www.acconmarine.com/pc-63-10-401 ... lease.aspx). We installed extra base fittings right behind the cabin. That allows you to quick release the top from its "in use" position and move it to the second set of bases which becomes the "storage" position right behind the cabin and out of the way of fishing.

You could also do that with the top Thataway has if that design fits your needs better than the traditional design.

Also, I didn't intend to imply that you couldn't (or shouldn't) use a forward leaning main bow. However, I'd sure mock it up with some cheap furring strips and some clear plastic to see in person what sort of issue you might encounter. It's difficult for me to visualize getting a forward leaning main bow on a CD22 with the appropriate headroom installed on a CD22 and "not" have it lay across the area right behind the cabin where one usually boards and disembarks, but I also haven't specifically tried it.

 

[Capt Harpoon]

Thank you all for your comments.
I think you have convinced me to go with the more traditional design, although we might try a mock-up too just to see if it could work (as Les suggested). Nonetheless, I don't see any significant potential advantages to make it a "must-have" kind of thing.
The extra set of fittings close to cabin might make this a bit of a moot point anyway, since the bimini would always go there if an uncluttered cockpit was necessary.
Thanks again for all your suggestions and comments!

 

[starcrafttom]

 

[Jazzmanic]

Whoa!!!! Thanks Tom!

Peter

 

[Socrateur]

Here is a photo of the forward leaning main bow on a 22. It certainly demonstrates the ingress/egress problem. Great photo, by the way, of a 22 in action.