C-Dory Warranty now null and void

S

surfbird

New member
I was in contact with C-Dory before they were bought by SeaSport re: repairs to the numerous gelcoat cracks (some present at purchase from dealer and others developed from moderate use) on my 2007 cruiser. I was assured by the C-Dory warranty rep that C-Dory would cover the cost for these repairs as well as take care of other warranty issues. In fact, I bought the boat with its many imperfections contingent upon C-Dory and its dealer assurances that these problems would be fixed to my satisfactions.

That was then and this is now....

Today, I spoke with a SeaSport rep who told me that the warranty on any C-Dory boat not made by SeaSport was null and void. PERIOD.
This was, to say the least, quite a shock. I assumed that SeaSport would have to honor any binding contract between C-Dory and its customers.

What are others experiences and thoughts regarding this?
 
Yes, this has been thoroughly covered here. However, I had hoped that moving forward Sea Sport would offer to address issues such as this to be repaired and billed equal to their expense. They break even, the owner gets a discount and a great deal of good will is created. A door slammed in your' face will not lead to continued support. I enjoyed 15% of my warranty period that I paid for. Certainly not Sea Sports problem, however, if I have an issue and they tell me to jump off a cliff when I'am willing to cover their expense...I will not have much respect left for them. I realize that they have no legal obligation but, there is a lot more to it than legalities. Sorry if this offends any body but that is how I feel. I have spent most of my working life trying to please customers and creating new ones. I know I would be looking for a new job if I did not try to find a middle ground with people, even when they may be being unreasonable.
 
In a perfect world, C-Dory would have sold their BUSINESS to SeaSport, including warranty support, accounts receivable/payable, inventory, and all contracts with dealers. Had they been looking out for US, that would have happened. Instead, the business tanked and they sold some assets to SeaSport. If NOBODY bought the molds, who would people be upset with?

That's what it came down to, folks... the C-Dory business we had contracts with tanked. People lost jobs, suppliers likely didn't get paid, and those of us with warranties lost 'em. They were trying to get what they could out of what assets there were, and those warranties were NOT assets.

It was a business deal and those of us with warranties lost out in that deal.

There are plenty of people here who think SeaSport should eat those warranty issues, even though they made nothing from the sale of those boats and had no hand in how they were made. It pains me to see the chasm this has created in our ranks. Regardless of how you feel about this issue, consider this:

How long could YOU afford to continue working, if your employer didn't pay you? Would you be willing to continue working for nothing? For 5 years? That is what some are asking of SeaSport... repair our boats for free or at cost. As a retired business owner, I can tell you that NO BUSINESS can operate for very long doing work "at cost." There will always be payroll to be met, utilities to be paid, cost of goods sold to be paid, debt to be repaid... and if the business doesn't make a profit, there is no reason for it to continue. And most businesses these days are experiencing little or no profit.

I don't begrudge SeaSport for buying the molds of the C-Dory models. I do have some ill will towards the Reynolds and the Fluid Marine folks who did not put something aside to honor our warranties. But, that won't change how I use my boat. If there is a hull issue, that will come out of my pocket. If it is something that should have been a warranty issue, it will stick in my craw. But I know where to direct my anger and when/where it does no good. I won't dwell on it.

In the meantime, I have had issues with batteries, water pumps, the on-board charger, a windshield wiper motor... and all those issues were taken care of by the manufacturer of those items while still covered by warranty (There were two water pumps waiting for me when I got home, thank you Jabsco.). The one hull warranty I dealt with almost 3 years ago - I fixed it myself and got a small reimbursement from the Reynolds C-Dory (nowhere near enough to cover my time).

And in a couple months, someone else with a boat "under warranty" who doesn't participate here will discover the previous owners of C-Dory aren't there anymore and will turn here for answers and support. More than ever, the accumulated knowledge that is shared/archived here will be even more important.

That isn't a warranty... but it is more than the previous owners of C-Dory left for us.

Respectfully,
Jim B.
 
I, for one, feel very lucky to have a boat at this time.
Thanks to the C-Brat Family and Bob Nahm (Catalina Yacht Anchorage), I was able to get a replacement boat when the hull on my '02 CD22 delaminated.

I agree with James about the fact that SeaSport only bought the assets and did not buy the business (along with the liabilities). I do not have a warranty on my '08 hull due to this, but I still have a great boat.

I received my replacement boat just as the Reynolds and Ricardo was closing the doors. It was sad to see the Factory go down, and I hope that Seasport will be able to continue producing these fine boats.
 
While I was not privy to the conversation between Surfbird and Sea Sport, I am very surprised at the tone of the conversation, as reported. The Jeff Lindhout I met in Bellingham did not strike me as someone who would be that abrupt and unfriendly with a member of the C-Dory family. That said, I agree with Jim et al. that Sea Sport is not responsible for the hulls manufactured prior to the acquisition.

Warren
 
Surfbird, you might contact your local C Dory dealer and see what they will do for you. The repairs, for the most part, were done by local dealers, and not by the factory in recent years. You mention that you bought the boat continguent on the dealer's representation that they would stand behind the boat. Why didn't you have the defects repaired initially? (My guess is that you wanted to use the boat, and see if any more appeared).

Stress cracks are fairly easy to fill, and generally the 22's have been free of problems. Maybe Sea Sport has some of the gel coat from the 2007 boats (Cook Composits in the past). See if they will give or sell you some. Buy a Dremel tool, and "V" out the cracks, then fill with gel coat, cover with mylar or PVA spray, then sand out with progressively fine paper, and finally buff and polish, then wax, and the cracks will be gone. Almost all boats develope some gel coat cracks.

Don't let my response make you feel that many of us don't feel that it would have been a better course for Sea Sport to have picked up the simple warantee issues, but it is what it is....Enjoy the great boat you have!
 
I probably bought my new 2008 22 Cruiser just before the sale. I took possession in May 2009. And I do not regret my decision to buy this fine boat. I would be very surprised if I ever need the "no longer available" hull warranty.

My only concern with the hull is the bilge gelcoat paint inside the "lockers" that rubs off as if the gelcoat is still uncured. If someone has had this issue, please let me know what is the solution. I have already damaged clothing, some of it my wife's, oh, oh, shoes, and other gear. I am probably bringing this up in the wrong thread but I am still fairly new on this and I am not sure how to go about. Should I start a new thread?

Will appreaciate any recommendations.
 
May want to try a coat of wax. My boat was manufactured with 3 separate storage lockers in the front berth (in place of flotation), and the gelcoat was sticky in delivery. A coat of wax hardened up the gelcoat in a wek or so.
 
Well I'm firmly on one side of the unfortunate chasm Jim refers to above.

My support for whoever builds C-Dory ended the day they stopped supporting me. Sea Sport wants to have their cake and eat it too. If they buy the molds and slap a Sea Sport logo on them fine. If they slap a C-Dory logo on them they are using A LOT more than a hull mold, they are using the brand equity you and I helped create.

If Sea Sport continues to build good C-Dory's, then I *may* see some value on the 'back end' in terms of resale value from continued presence of a brand. If they don't build good C-Dory's, then there would be no value in having them continue to make the boats.

The above issue does not change the way I feel about my boat or certainly this community, just my support for the manufacturer.
 
Matt: I agree 100%.

James: I think you should re-read my post very carefully. I believe you have missed my point entirely. Maybe I did not make my point clearly. By covering their expenses, I mean't COVERING THEIR EXPENSES.
 
To All,
Sorry, I do not know how to edit a post.

James: I just want to add, business is business but, relations are something greater. Many a business has been sunk by the accounting and legal departments.
 
ramos":10025k4p said:
Matt: I agree 100%.

James: I think you should re-read my post very carefully. I believe you have missed my point entirely. Maybe I did not make my point clearly. By covering their expenses, I mean't COVERING THEIR EXPENSES.
Click to expand...

I really don't want this to turn into another public debate on what SeaSport's policy should be. After owning businesses for over 30 years, I have a pretty good handle on what good-will and public relations can do for a business. It was a daily occurrence that someone would come into our business with a "good-will" reason why we should donate some money or give free services.

If you truly mean "COVERING THEIR EXPENSES", then why not go to your dealer and pay their shop rate for any work you might need? That would be "covering their expenses." What do you expect from SeaSport?

--------------------

Folks, if you've been around C-Dorys for more than 3 years, you may remember the flap when the Reynold's C-Dory decided they were no longer going to offer "factory service." Those of us who bought from the factory felt abandoned... the factory was our dealer. This left us with no dealer relationship to turn to. We were pissed. I get where you are coming from. But this was the factory we bought from turning us away. It was the beginning of the end of the C-Dory company we knew.

Regardless of the name that goes on the side of the boat, SeaSport didn't have anything to do with the previous C-Dory factory abandoning their owners' warranties. Our warranties were colateral casualties in a failed business. I don't like that any more than anyone else. Essentially, a warranty is an "insurance policy" issued by the original builder... it is their "good faith" way to show you that they stand behind what they built. When the builder/business goes away, there is no way to force them to honor that good faith.

Historically, there have been plenty of boat companies that have gone out of business and had their molds bought up by someone else. Sometimes the name was also sold (anything that can be sold in a desperate situation). Or in some cases, if there was no longer an ownership of that name, it is simply a "resurrected" name. No connection with the previous company. No transfer of liabilities. The previous people who bought boats were on their own. Yep, that's our situation, now.

A mold is an asset, something used in the building process. If you buy a mold from a failed business, you are not buying the way to use that mold. SeaSport may choose to build this next generation of C-Dorys heavier or lighter; they might use foam instead of end-grain balsa; they might make all the hulls purple; they may call them SEA-Dorys (which is what I might do if in their shoes). And none of that affects how our boats were built OR the good faith warranty we had with the previous owner(s) of that mold.

Frankly, I'm glad the molds were bought up by a reputable builder. You know they will build a quality product. What if Bayliner (if there even is a Bayliner in today's business environment) bought the molds? Or someone who knows nothing about boat building, but got a "hot deal" on the molds. Anyone could have plunked down the cash for those molds... we have a lot of very enthusiastic C-Dory folks here. No one here did that. Heck, I didn't even know Fluid Marine was tanking until I read about SeaSport buying the molds here... although you didn't need a crystal ball to see where much of the boat industry was going (away).

Who here amongst us would be willing to take on the liabilities of a failed business? Potential Warranty Claims should be carried on a balance sheet as a liability... but how many small companies do that?

Let me go on record here: I REALLY don't like the fact that the Reynolds and Fluid Marine moved on and didn't make any arrangements for those of us with a warranty. Obviously, they didn't have any interest in our "good will." (I can point to an RV manufacturer who did cease production and DID have money set aside to cover current buyers' warranties... so that sort of thing does happen when the manufacturer is concerned about taking care of their customers).

We have to be realistic here... about who the bad guys are, who is left holding the bag, and the fact that SeaSport didn't play any part in the manufacture of our boats, the profits (if any) made on them, or a liability for them. OK, let me correct part of that... the "bad guys" part. It's likely they (the previous C-Dory owners) weren't bad guys, but they certainly didn't care about our opinions and made it abundantly clear with their lack of response to phone calls and e-mails that they really didn't want to deal directly with us. Why are some of us now shocked that they didn't look out for us at the end of their business?

Those whose boats are out of warranty may not care. Those of us who have boats that were still under warranty will likely not have a problem, but it could be our ox being gored.

SeaSport made a business decision to buy the molds. If the previous owners had cared about the warranties, the people who bought their boats, or the dealers, they could have said, "Here, take the molds, with the understanding that you will take care of the warranties still in effect. We don't want to get every last dime out of this business, we only want what's best for our customers." Pretty good fairy tale, huh?

I realize what I write here won't likely change anyone's mind. We had a "deal" with the previous owners and now we want someone to step up and protect our interests in that deal. That's not gonna happen. We can each choose how to move on.

I'm gonna go enjoy my boat.

Still respectful,
Jim B.
 
Or just go buy another one, 16 footers can't be that expensive. Then you show support to the new guy which is all that could help you in the future as old guy is gone.
Martin
 
While I can't believe that we are on yet another thread on the same topic AND
I can't believe that I am contributing to it, I have to say the title of this topic is somewhat in error. E.g. "C-Dory warranties are now null and void is wrong" on a few levels -
First, as the several other threads have hashed over, it's not "now" but this is old news. Second, the title should read "Warranties for C-Dory boats manufactured under Fluid Marine are null and void". Third, C-Dory warranties for any boat that Sea Sport actually makes will (I am sure) be perfectly valid as SeaSport has a long history of taking care of THEIR customers. As has been said many, many times before, if SeaSport hadn't bought the assets, it's not clear if there would be any more C-Dory boats produced. Hence, I see their purchase as good for all of us. The alternative would be no more C-Dory boats and those who purchased Fluid Marine manufactured C-Dorys would still be screwed.[/url]
 
10/20/09 C-Brats-

It may be possible for 'new' ownership at Sea Sport to fashion a 'reasonable' man solution to this dilemma as described by C-Brats in their posts (i.e. "goodwill"; brand equity; owners & dealers interests; and publicity, etc.).

Reportedly, while Sea Sport acquired only the 'assets' (e.g., molds) of the predessor Fluid Marine LLC and none of the 'liabilities' ( e.g. warranty claims), they can/should obtain 'reinsurance' underwriting for the obvious long term protection of their customers (C-Dory owners with remaining warranties on their hull), dealers, and their own factory business development and sustainment.

A 'third party' arbitrator would normally request the predesssor (Fluid Marine, LLC) to provide the successor (Sea Sport) with warranty claim history which could become the basis for 'fixed' term limited liability underwriting and insurance. Sea Sport, as successor, could obtain underwriting and reinsurance from an independent insurer possibly a national Marine liability insurer. Again, this reinsurance of the successor (Sea Sport) would support current C-Dory owners for the next 4-5 yrs, dealers, and the 'cost' of the successor's insurance could be budgeted, scheduled, and even 'limited' in quantum in a variety of liability accrual methods.

A 'win-win' option could be developed that would not be onerous to the successor and supportive of present and future customers, dealers, and the market .

Just some 'options' that could be presented to Sea Sport. The current dilemma is not satisfactory to all parties.

John Roark
C-Brat #3307
16' Cruiser w/Honda 50 HP
R&R
Upper Potomac River (VA) Fleet
 
Please correct me if I am wrong Roger, but if we are trying to be precise shouldn't we say that

"Warranties for C-Dory boats manufactured by Fluid Marine and the Reynolds and the Tolands are null and void"

I assume that there were no other manufacturers. Indeed even if there are no outstanding warranties under any manufacturer, which we know to be false, the above statement is still true although possibly vacuous in part :) . On the other hand if there are other manufacturers the statement is still true (as is your original statement).

OK so my boat is out of the water until Spring and the silly season is upon us.
 
First the obvious, pretty much everyone knows Sea Sport is not going to cover boats that were built by the previous owners. Analogies such as how long would you work without getting paid? On why the current ownership should not even consider working with owners is one way to look at it. I’m thinking that’s a stretch from the real discussion with all due respect. Also to suggest that Fluid might not have paid their suppliers is also bordering on slander unless you really know the facts. I certainly don’t. I think what creates the chasm between the owners is that I don’t see it as people crying about the warranty issue as much as why they thought it might have been good business to try to work with people to some extent. Others go on and on about getting over it and enough already. The continued discussion about this subject and how a poster thinks relationships should play out in business is one that I share. It’s not about business in a lawyer’s eyes or an accountants eyes. It’s about all the companies who purchase companies and want the brand to go on untarnished by this sort of thing. Certainly the buyer could argue for the existing customers as much as a seller during price negotiations. Since I don’t see a lot of advertising about new C-Dory’s the current boat owners can have an impact on sales when perspective buyers question them about their boats. Except for the question about putting logos on the seats or not; I don’t see much factory presence on the C-Brats. I just like the idea that some of the current boat owners that feel the current ownership could have done better job protecting their image and the brand. I like the fact that this issue just won’t go away. That’s exactly the point people are trying to convey to the current ownership.
D.D.
 
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