C-Dory in Alaskan water?

Y

yhc

New member
Good morning.

I am looking into purchasing a C-Dory in the near future. I will be mostly using the boat in Alaskan water for cruising with my family, fishing and hunting. So my question to those Alaskan forum members is how does a C-Dory handle the water conditions commonly found in PWS, Cook Inlet, etc?

Most likely I will be picking up a used 22' Cruiser but am open to the idea of getting either 25' Cruiser vs. 255 TomCat. Would you recommend going with the larger boat? Is there inherent advantages in getting a larger boat...other than the obvious size differences (i.e.) safety, handling rough water, etc?

I thank you in advance for your time.

Regards,

yhc
 
yhc: welcome to our owners site!! You can go to the top of our home page and hit the "Our C-Dorys" link....and sort that by state. Then, you can just scroll down and get a snap shot of what the "AK locals" are buying. Keep in mind the brief number of years the CD25 has been in production when looking at the ratios. The 22s have been being built since back in the early/mid 80s... so for sure they will have a heavier owners network....and because they last for years!! Below is a current pic of my 1984 C-Dory... Solid as day one.

Also... look about the site...and you will see we now have about 1/2 dozen of our C-Dory owners enjoying the waters in Alaska. Good luck on your future purchase..and please enjoy the site and all the differant forums. The search engine is also great on this site if you want to search for particular topics...

Good Day!!

Byrdman


C_Trial_At_Rest.sized.jpg
 
YHC,

Just to give you an idea of our gathering this coming week end at Shoppe Bay, of the 10 boats that mentioned an interest. 9 were CD-22 Cruisers and one was a CD-25. Last year we didn't have any 25's but had a TomCat 24.

It would seem the issue is not the water in PWS, but the size and price of the boat. There are times when I want a bigger boat and their are times when I am glad I have a 22. and none of those times are due to water conditions. There are things I like to do in the sound that fit a 22 pretty well. I have gotten out front of my boat in hip waders and pulled it parallel to the beach and into a small lagoon that I couldn't motor into.

In the Cook Inlet, I have been out when the forecast was winds to 10 knots seas to 3 feet (standard Cook Inlet forecast) and been motoring along in 6 and 7 foot seas with 25 knot winds and felt very comfortable. Even my passenger who didn't have much sea time was comfortable as long as she didn't look out the side window up at the waves on the port quarter.

The CD-22 is a great extended trip boat for two people and the CD-25 extends that out to 3 or possibly 4 people.
 
:!: A tangent: Talking to some very experienced people in Anchorage that pay attention to "Coast Guard rescues: There were a few sinkings involving welded aluminum boats in the Cook Inlet in the past. The problem was; welds that "popped" when in ice-cold water! Aluminum may be a little more "puncture resistant" when compared to fiberglass of the same thickness... but I would NOT trust my life to their welds. :x
Best thing I can say about my old C-Dory; the glass is top-notch in quality and thicker too boot! NO SEAMS to worry about rupturing, as the tin-boats are sometimes faced with! I know it is extremely rare that even happens, but there are actually cases of it up here in our cold-ass waters! :idea:
About the CD-25 and CD-22... ask yourself if you prefer a "self bailer" over a "level-floor" (non-self-bailing) all-throughout your boat. I personally would choose that latter.
I'm outa here.... :bat you tin-heads out there cool off and don't come lookin fer me now! :xnaughty Trade that thing in for a good heavy-built glass boat. :love :)
 
Now Redfox has me curious. Aside from the obvious negatives of a self-bailing boat, which I would believe are the added weight of the floor and the raised position of the crew, what are the negatives I am missing here. Just on the surface I think I would really prefer a self bailing boat.
 
Lloyds.... I think the most outstanding difference between self-bailing (CD-25) and non-self-bailing (CD-22) is the feeling of rock solid stability one gets from having his/her feet a few feet below the waterline. It is a secure feeling and the center of boat movement is up above your ankles instead of several inches below your shoe soles. I want self bailing in part from experiences of having to clean out mucky water after long storage without cockpit coverage. Also, heavy rains add water to a non-self-bailing cockpit, but a recessed pump can easily handle that.

Having said all that, when the water is rough and lots of boat movement is going on, standing below the waterline, below the center of gravity gives the feeling you get driving a sports car or go cart with axels above your seat level.... low center of gravity. I was lucky to ride with El and Bill a little bit and could see and feel their point about liking the low standing point.

John
 
Now I know this is really "way-out-there" (theory) but here goes: If you should have a hull breach on just about ANY self-bailing boat, there is no way you could seal-off water rushing into the boat, because you can not get to it! (it is under another deck) Now, on a non-self-bailer, you not only can get to it, but also the floor is way thicker because it has to be... on my old Classic and even the new C-Dorys; I believe the core is 1-inch marine ply. That is way tougher and puncture-resistant than any aluminum job out there.
The reasons for me are simple for preferring a level-floor throughout the boat: I can lean-over the gunnels, clean and secure my catch that I prefer to leave on stringers till they bleed-out, instead of fouling-up the cooler (!) the most important thing------- easy and fast (level) access to them hummin downriggers, when I'm steering inside the cabin! ... another great thing; safety when working in the cockpit! :smiled

How bout anyone else today, you can explain this stuff better than me.

I just ran outa Tabasco! :shock: I gotta go shoppin before I head out on the boat. :xseek

Greg :bat
 
Well, I like the idea of a self bailing boat too, but it really depends on the design. On larger boats with huge scuppers I think they work well. On a smaller boat they can have their limitations. My last boat was self bailing and was a nightmare. The design was bad, and the floor of the cockpit was too close to the waterline so when it was loaded water actually came in, instead of out and it just didn't drain too well. So the distance from the waterline and the floor has to be enough that when fully loaded the floor is still well above it so it will drain correctly, and not have backflow problems. Beyond that if you take a really big wave over the stern you need to have enough distance so the extra weight of all the water doesn't push the floor below the waterline which will render the self bailing useless and if your scuppers are jammed up with stuff might even take on water. But I have talked to some fishing freinds who fish in stuff I'll never go out in, and it has saved their bacon one time at westport when they took a big wave and drained out rather quickly. But it all depends on the design. I think in larger boats 25 feet and up it will probably work alot better since you have more room to play with in the design. Personally when I move up again to a 25-27 footer I will take a close look at self bailing again. you do lose some height in the cockpit, but with some rails it wouldn't bother me. Plus it's really nice for cleaning the deck it just washes out especially when you have alot of fish goo. Either way I try hard to avoid the conditions where I would want the feature.

$.02

Sark
 
there are some very good posts here on this topic. Sawdust, who lifts crab traps, says he put those 'ping pong ball' valves on the drain tubes since the standard flapper valves don't close the scuppers when water below tries to enter at times the hull is depressed into the sea. John
 
I've mainly used my 22' in PWS and am really happy with it. If looking at a used boat consider how large the fuel tanks are. I put the larger tanks in mine and wish it still held another 30 gallons. How many people will you usually have on board? How long will you be staying out? The 22' gets cramped fast with too many people, add in 5 shrimp pots, ice chests and fishing gear and you'll be wishing for a larger boat. In PWS there is commonly enough chop to make you slow way down so they don't make great boats to make a 50 mile run and return on the same day, you'll spend too much time traveling. I usually spend 4-7 days at a time so I can put up with the slow speed to get the good fuel mileage. I think the 22' C-Dory is a great boat for 2 people who are not in a hurry for extended boat camping, or 4 people for a days fishing. I've never wished I had a larger boat because I didn't feel safe
 
There are a growing number of drop bow self bailing aluminum boats in the 18 to 26 foot range up here in Sitka. They are quite popular due to the ability to perform as several different boats. They make excellent Halibut/crab/shrimp boats as they are easy to weld attachments to. You can load a large amount of bikes/quads/hunting/fishing/camping/deer/moose/bear etc and run the boat right up on the beach to load and unload. The upper deck tends to have water tight sealed hatches in case of lower hull punctures and swampings. Although aluminum is quite cold to the touch, there is both paint available that assists and in reality, you have to wear so much gear that bare flesh rarily touches cold boat. They are not quite as good troll boats but plenty people use them for that. Their biggest issue? Weight! Takes some big engines and gas to move that weight around.

Of course it gets quite interesting when you forget to latch the front ramp and you hit a good wave, but usually you only forget once. Washes the deck pretty well though!!
 
I personally prefer a self bailing boat offshore--but was very comforatable with the C Dory 22 in heavy seas. I personally never took any significant water aboard the C Dory 22. We have been in serious waves offshore where I feel that a non self bailing boat would be potentially dangerous--but it would be rare to find a C Dory in those types of conditions. (Seas which would break and come over the transom or sides of the boat)

In our three years cruising Alaska (in a 46 foot motor sailer) we never saw a condition which I would would have considered "dangerous" in the 22 foot C Dory--but there were times it would have been un-comfortable.

The 22 has the feature of being very easily trailerable--and relitatively inexpensive. The major disadvantage is the lack of an enclosed head and somewhat cramped sleeping foreward (depending on your size). We found the 22 footer was fine for up to 10 days. We went to the Tom Cat 255 because of a better ride, bigger bunk, with easier entrance, and longer fuel range. We feel that 300 mile range allows you to go almost anyplace you want in Alaska where a C Dory is comfortable.

The disadvantage of the larger boats is they are heavier, harder to trailer and more expensive...Another option is the 30 foot C Dory Cats, pilot house fishing boats, which I understand are again being built in Alaska. I think that they might be ideal, especially if a custom house were made for them.
 
It has already been mentioned but I'll repeat. The biggest difference between a CD22 and CD25 is space, not seaworthiness. They have roughly the same hull shape. Some owners who have upgraded from 22 to 25 have said they actually prefer the ride of the 22.
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Can't agree completey with that, Dan. The CD25 is a whole lot smoother, much more stable and controllable in any conditions worse than flat calm, and able to maintain more speed in conditions that would slow down both hulls than was my CD22. Simply the fact that my 25 weighs close to twice what my 22 did is the biggest contributor to that, but the size alone makes a considerable difference. For fishing I preferred the CD22 without the raised aft deck, but for seaworthiness the CD25 inspires much more confidence and provides much more comfort.
 
Mike has a rare perspective having owned and driven both the 22 and 25 in a variety of conditions. Couple of observations from others are that the 25 likes to have it's bow down slightly more into chop and for more efficient running than the 22. That's a good thing because it has the side effect of great visibility underway. From people's comments as they step aboard my boat for those that own a 22, they say two things, wow, how stable it is (at rest) side to side, and second, wow, how LARGE the cabin is. I tell them you'll get used to it mighty fast...

As far as handling, hard to say because I've only driven a 22 in mild conditions. But I do love my 25's ride, stability, room, bathroom, self-bailing cockpit, and even trailering very well.
 
PWS has all the waves that are present out in the open sea "chop" (AK Gulf Waters.... such as Homer and Seward) just not the swell with them (!)
Another factor to consider is how much easier it is to dock a boat without that dreadful self-bailing deck (!) at least on the docks around here, they are too high up to grab, when your feet are above-water-line. I think so at least, because every time I board a self bailer, I think what a PITA it is to grab the dock (or another boat for that matter) when coming up to the gunnels.

Got my Tabasco.... I'm goin fishin now! :shock:
 
dogon dory":1xg4wwbr said:
So, Mike, I guess to sum it up, you're saying that size does matter???
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Yep. It really matters around the docks, too. That extra ten inches of width grows to thirty inches when trying to hit my slip next to the big Tollycraft. The CD22 was a whole bunch easier to shove in there, and it has nothing to do with the raised deck because I generally sit at the helm when docking. The heavier hull is not as easy for the wind to push around, but it sure isn't as nimble as the 22.

That might have been me you were thinking of. I have whined a lot about missing my 22. But for the better part of the next three weeks there will be two kids, two dogs, one wife and me living aboard, so size will matter more as the time goes on.
 
One other issue between the 22 and the 25 or a TomCat that is understood but not mentioned yet is the simple cost of operation.

Although these figures are not exact, the two larger boats generally yield about 2 mpg and the 22 around 4 mpg (approximate figures). This is a 2 to 1 ratio!

On another thread tonight, Roger Bum(gartner) said he filled his 22 and tow vehicle up for the weekend with a bill of $175. The larger boats and a larger tow vehicle might well double that figure.....$350!

As they say...."Your mileage may vary"........ but would the cost of operation affect how much you use the boat?

(I know a 1-ton diesel truck wouldn't get 1/2 the mileage of a smaller tow vehicle, but think about the additional cost involved of procuring the vehicle as an additional operating cost.)

Just another facet to think about!

Joe. (The C-Brat with the CD-22 on Shasta Lake where the gas is currently $4.75/gallon.)
 
Thank you everyone for your responses. You all have given me much good information to ponder upon. Might as well as I am currently sitting in the middle of a desert in Iraq, about half way between Euphrates and Tigris...there is no close large body of water to speak of. I will have some time before heading home but I am glad I have started my homework before hand. I am hoping to narrow down my selection and search for a boat when I get back to Anchorage in a few weeks.

Red Fox has touched on this topic but I would greatly appreciate it if you all could expand on the suitability of fiberglass boats in Alaskan water. Some Alaskans seem to raise their eyebrows when a topic of purchasing a glass boat comes up.

Again thank you and enjoy your Independence Day weekend.

Regards,

yhc
 
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