Bow Anchoring

J

jhspear

New member
On the advice of several members I added a winch to my (new to me) C-Dory 22. One of the issues, however, is the lack of a fair lead from the anchor roller to the cleat because of the width of the windlass. The windlass is a Maxwell HRC-6 Horizontal.

I am hesitant to tie off the rode at the bow cleat and allow the rode to lead over the windlass to the bow. This would put considerable downward pressure on the winch as well as the deck.

One system I have read about several times involves a separate bow line which consists of a heavy line attached directly to the bow eye. the free end of the bow line is clipped to the pulpit when not in use but to anchor one ties off the rode to a ring at the end of the bow line. As a back up the rode would still be tied off to the bow cleat but there would be slack in the line at this point.

There are some advantages to this system in that the attachment point is considerably lower than the deck cleat and thus a shorter scope is needed for anchoring. The disadvantage of course is greater complexity.

But my main concern is the strength of the bow eye. Or is this not a concern with C-Dory's? The "feats of strength" of this boat are legendary, but do they extend to the bow eye?

Or maybe there are alternate methods of cleating off.
Thanks.
 
I am hesitant to tie off the rode at the bow cleat and allow the rode to lead over the windlass to the bow. This would put considerable downward pressure on the winch as well as the deck.

I'm wondering what sort of conditions you plan on anchoring in. 95% of the time, your anchor rode will be hanging vertically off the bow roller. Even in 20-30 kt wind, the downward pressure won't be close to anything that could damage your deck. I think you may be fretting unnecessarily here. It might not hurt to reinforce the bow cleat backing as some were attached with pretty small washers as backing. Enjoy :wink:
 
When anchored out one evening I had little else to do than enjoy the surroundings and think about my anchor. At the time I was not tied off, simply relying on the clutch of the Lewmar windlass. Since there was little or no wind or current the rode dropped almost vertically from the roller. In such conditions I had no problem. I then thought about what I would do in a really strong wind and decided I would simply give more scope and then cleat off behind the windlass. I did wonder about the downward pressure if I put the rode over the body of the windlass and considered leading it along the side. I decided that neither alternative would unduly stress the foredeck. The rode would be at something close to 30deg from horizontal depending on the scope. If I did have concerns then leading the rode alongside the windlass would give the best loading for the cleat, closest to horizontal.

I understand your logic about wanting to move the anchoring point closer to the waterline by using the bow eye but would never do it. The advantage of a shorter scope is irrelevant when conditions are perfect. If you are riding out a real storm at anchor (and I have) you need simplicity. I learned that twisted nylon rode acts like a big shock absorber, unlike braided line. I also had the ability to ease the rode on the cleat under load. If you are dragging anchor in a storm and cannot get it to set even by powering into the wind and backing off you lose maneuverability. The anchor becomes a liability and it I may be that the only chance is to let it go. Untying the bitter end in the locker may take too long but a C-Dory will allow you to stand up in the forward hatch and cut away the anchor. Not so easy if it is tied to the bow eye.

My humble opinion and I am sure others will differ.
 
The cure is to attach a bridle; either one or two to remove all strain
off the primary anchor rode and winch.
Attach a chain hook and line to your anchor chain. Pass the line thru
a bow chock, tie off at the bow cleat. Chafe guards are good with bridle
lines going thru chocks.

Alternately, tie a rolling (or iclcle) hitch** with a secondary line to your
anchor line, pass and secure as above.

Experiment with the length of the bridle(s) for swing room and shock
absorbancy; about 15-20' seems to work in most situations.

**http://www.animatedknots.com/rollinghitch/index.php
Categ=boating&LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

Aye.
 
I'm going to be coming up on this when I install my windlass - I can see ahead of time that it will lie just like yours (windlass body wide and just forward of cleat). I'm not comfortable with an unfair lead. Just on Powell last fall, and even in reasonably sheltered locations, there were times during blows when the bow was lifting and falling to waves and putting a good strain on the rode - at the time I only had the anchor roller for a fairlead (no windlass at the time), which is really not comfortable for me. Even though I mounted a new, heavy duty roller with good backing, I don't consider it to be a place to lead the active rode, so I want to change it.

My two current favorite options are to use a snubber attached to the bow eye, and/or mount chocks on the foredeck and go with a bridle (the two legs coming back to the bow cleat). Personally, I won't trust the current bow eye for that, even though it might be fine. But how would I know? I've rarely uncovered some "hidden" boat part and found it to be stronger/better than I wanted it to be. And my bow eye is of unknown provenance with the inboard end buried in a blob of caulk that is gelcoated over. So I will probably get a Wichard bow eye and install it in place of the original with good backing. I may mount chocks as well, because I like more options, but have not decided yet (chocks, one on each side of the foredeck, allow a bridle to lead the snubber back to the one central cleat).

Temporarily, on Powell, I set out two anchors in a V and then tied the two rodes together just where they passed over the bow roller (this kept them from chafing on the roller ears during swings).
 
Our windlass, vertical and not horizontal, is offset slightly to port ao that the anchor line can be led straight back to the cleat and not across the head of the windlass.

Charlie
 
After wondering why the arrangement of windlass/center cleat was done that way (with no answer). I installed some bow cleats on deck forward and made a bridle that I stow inside.

This is the bridle - just a "Y" connection with a length of "tail". 3-strand is really easy to splice and make loops in!

1200p_bridle.sized.jpg




Here are the bow cleats I installed. The bolts exit into the anchor locker, so no worrying about prettying things up!

1200p_cleatsondeck.sized.jpg




I put a rubstrake on each side since the lead of the bridle would likely be rubbing on the gelcoat.

1200p_rubstrake.sized.jpg




I use a rolling hitch to the anchor rode using the bitter-end tail of the bridle.

1200p_inuse.sized.jpg




I leave the anchor rode secured to the center cleat as a backup. After the bridle is on, I let out enough rode so that the load is all on the bridle. The "legs" of the bridle can also be led to the breast cleats if needed for wind/wave management.

1200p_inuse2.sized.jpg
 
I have used the bow eye with a shackle to the eye, it is plenty strong--if there is any doubt, then pull it, put a block of oak in there, glass the block in, and put a longer U or single eye bolt in.

I use a 20 foot piece of line, run a rolling hitch on the anchor rode.

I have also let the anchor lie along the side of the windlass. The lateral pressure is not gong to harm the windlass or deck. If necessary run the anchor line thru a 2" or 1.5" piece of fire hose. This is excellent chafing gear. I also like to use chafing gear on the bow roller. The separate threat is about the "sailing" effect--and the use of the cleat near the helm or navigator's window on the side of the C Dory.

Ray's bridle is great--and there is good reason to put in cleats on each side, as he has done. I would want them backed with at least fender washers. Ray, how do you hold the thimble in the line--since you have not seized the two legs of the bridle together at the thimble? I am aware of the "nylon ears" on the thimble, but those may break under lateral load. There are several options--one is to seize the line above the thimble. Another is to do away with the thimble all together. Splice the eye in the 3 foot piece and then run the bridle line to the boat, with the splice in each end thru the single eye splice on the terminal 3' as you would a square knot.

The bridle as show in Ray's photos will make no difference in the swinging room of the boat at anchor. It is dependent on the total length of the point from the anchor to the attachment on the boat, not the attachment point of the bridle. Using smaller lines for the bridle do give more shock absorption. For example for the 1/2" line for the C Dory, I use a 3'8" or even a 5/16 " line to take up shock. All chain rode is very rare in a C Dory--(Some of the boats came with 100 feet of chain--so if one were to retain all of the 100 feet, they might anchor in 15 feet of water with a 7:1 scope (accounting for the 3 foot height of the bow to give a total of about 18 feet of rise from the sea bed bottom to the bow of the boat). I prefer a slotted piece of SS plate, with two snubber lines shackled to each side of the plate, over the single chain took (which may require mousing to keep it in place.)
 
Jack ,interesting that you have the same windlass as I . I just tie to the factory cleat aft of the windlass ,and that's just slightly resting against the side of the capstan. I have a Simpson Lawrence bow roller that pivots also ,so maybe that would reduce the downward pressure somewhat as well. Anyway ,I am happy with the RC6 and just switched to a delta anchor 14 lb this weekend. Fits the existing roller system perfect.
 
thataway":3k9syi4m said:
Ray, how do you hold the thimble in the line--since you have not seized the two legs of the bridle together at the thimble? I am aware of the "nylon ears" on the thimble, but those may break under lateral load. There are several options--one is to seize the line above the thimble. Another is to do away with the thimble all together. Splice the eye in the 3 foot piece and then run the bridle line to the boat, with the splice in each end thru the single eye splice on the terminal 3' as you would a square knot.
Click to expand...

I took the photo before I was totally done. :oops: :oops: I did seize the line at thimble to keep it from sliding around. I only used the thimble at all because I had it lying around from another project. Seems to do well so far......

R
 
A quick response to the bow eye question. To work in the bottom of my boat, I block up under the transom and using slings through the bow eye, lift the front end of the boat with a front end loader. Roll the trailer out and let the bottom paint flow. On my boat, the bow eye is plenty strong.
 
I don't say this to doubt your bow eye, but just that lifting something slowly and steadily doesn't seem like the same potential force as snatching up on an anchor rode in wind driven seas (i.e. sudden jerks). I feel like I could break something by striking it a blow easier than I could by slowly stepping down on it.

The bow eye in my boat may be fine, but there is no way to know for sure (as is) because the ends inside the boat are encased in gelcoated, something-or-other (probably caulk). And even if it was fine to begin with, stainless steel doesn't like being deprived of oxygen. My guess is that it would be okay anyway, but I'll sleep better (presuming I'm going to use it for anchoring) if I replace it and add proper backing. Then I'll know what I have.

That said, it's likely that different years/different boats have varying installations, so yours is probably not even the same as mine. Maybe you can see the whole thing and the backing block/reinforcement (I can't).
 
This is why I like this group. It reminds me to sane up and stop overthinking and fretting so much.
That said, the bridle suggestions are excellent plus I am amused that it never occurred to me to think about the (minimal) lateral forces by leading the line to the side of the windlass rather than over the top.
Wish I could say I need to leave now to go boating, but the lakes are still frozen solid and are not anticipated to be liquid until the first of May. Feels like the longest winter in the history of mankind.
 
JHSPEAR, I love it. You have captured my thought(s) Perfectly.

Until reading this thread I(we) we were just plodding along without a care in the the World.

We'd pick an anchor spot, (this year, somewhere between Skagway and Key West), and drop the anchor. About an hour later we'd check to make sure we weren't dragging or some other unanticipated problem.

Yea, sometime's we 'sailed on anchor, but I just thought that gave us a better 'view so we didn't have to to twist-around to look a the scenery. Silly me!

Now I've learned that there are (evidently) many more forces-at-play.

I guess now we'll be more diligent to the angle of our anchor rode to the boat.
Could it be putting unnecessary stress on the anchor roller? Is 'sailing a bad thing? And I will never admit to EVER anchoring without tying-off the rode to the bow cleat (although I may have done that once or twice in the past decade), and just letting the windlass handle the 'strain. My bad.

And as for the strength/integrity of the bow eye on Dessert 1st, I guess we've just been lucky. When I retrieve the boat, with the bow eye strained, it's never come loose and smacked me up-side-the-head, so I figure it's ok. No rust, no evident corrosion ... looks good to me. ...but (now) I Wonder.

Last year we were on the boat for a total of eight months ... and never had a problem. Guess we were Lucky. This year will be less (so far only eight weeks on the boat) and probably not too many more due to other things going on (Germany, Czech Republic, Austria, Australia, etc).

But when we get back to The Boat in 2015, we'll sure 'enough we watching for all the stuff we may have missed!

Seriously, I applaud everyone's attention-to-detail; but don't get toooooo wrapped up in the minutia.

Best,
Casey&Mary
 
I wouldn't worry about it if I were you, but, The Villages (FL), highest rate of STDs in the country. But if you're on your boat all the time should be safe I guess. :wink: Oh, the things that keep me awake when I should be sleeping, never should have bought a boat. :?
 
Sunbeam brings up a good point. If you are anchoring such that the boat is being jerked up hard, as on straight chain or a short mooring, instead of using a snubber or plenty of stretchy nylon, you best have the front end of your boat VERY well braced.

I used a "Y" type nylon snubber on my Morgan 33 for many years. I was on 3/8" chain and used a chain hook to connect the chain to the snubber. The stronger the motion, the more stretchy nylon I let out. Never failed me.
 
Jake,

I'd heard the story about The Villages having an STD problem, but largely discounted it as nasty hearsay. Not so.

Mary retired last year after being a pharmacist for 30 years, and confirmed most of the story. Evidently since pregnancy isn't the issue it may have been earlier in their lives - several Villager's who are on the prowl, tend to be "less careful" than they used to be.

Nowadays my fantasies tend toward planning the next boating/bicycle trip versus other stuff. (And you thought I couldn't bring this back to a boating subject. EVERYTHING is about boating!!!) :-)

Best,
Casey&Mary
 
I learn so much on this site about so many things. :shock: For me if I'm anchored and worrying about my bow eye getting yanked out of the front of my boat I'm not sleeping too well I would not think. Did someone not check on the weather? In my world and my wife's world a dock might be a better choice for us anyway if available for the evening.
D.D.
 
WillC : Your post rings true. Caution is the word, when it comes to weather. Wherever I might be, I tune into the "High Seas Forecast" or a reliable weather station, once a day, religiously. If a front is coming through, I let out more scope and maybe set a second anchor or head into a sheltered marina. If all is fair, off I go to the next adventure. It is no fun spending the night on anchor watch after being surprised by bad weather. "An ounce of prevention..."
 
Back
Top