Boat rolled over by wave.
- Thread starter starcrafttom
- Start date
Agree, a very incredible story and very lucky 3-some.
That "wave", a rogue, can come from anywhere, any time.
If the radio had not worked, for that one call, it would have been over. AND that the captain knew his position immediately and was able to get it out on that first burst, saved there lives, along with the close proximity of the Coast Guard.
They should have had their PFD's on already, but, not many fisherman I have seen, do.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
That "wave", a rogue, can come from anywhere, any time.
If the radio had not worked, for that one call, it would have been over. AND that the captain knew his position immediately and was able to get it out on that first burst, saved there lives, along with the close proximity of the Coast Guard.
They should have had their PFD's on already, but, not many fisherman I have seen, do.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
hardee":x83ys127 said:
An amazing story of survival and a cool headed skipper who got one radio signal out--wow. The ACG was ready- "equipped" and able. Not so for us in Canada. It was sheer luck that most of passengers on Tofino whale watching vessel that was rolled over with a large wave survived. Our CCG do their best but as our CCG is shrinking in active stations their response time grows.
There are several reasons for "rogue" or "sneaker" waves. One is summation of several wave trains, which may not be coming from the same storm system, often thousands of miles away. As we know, waves tend to come in "sets". Several big waves, and then decrease in size. If you get several large waves, all arriving at once, especially in a shoaling or reef area, then you get the "sneaker". In this case there was a warning--that is that the seas were already at" seas about 4-5 feet at 10-12 sec." Then they noted the "incoming tide began to surge". That surge was the precursor of these large waves.
There are also several other types of waves: Some known by their regional names: rissaga (Catalan), milghuba (Maltese), marrobbio (Italian), abiki (Japanese), šćiga (Croatian). are known as meteotsunami or meteorological tsunami--that is Tsunami type waves but caused by meteorological conditions.
There are also the seiche which is a standing wave in an enclosed or partially enclosed body of water. These are usually caused by either the meteorological conditions, minor tsunami, or as in the first case, by summation waves.
In S. Calif, the N. facing beach (toward the main land, with only a 25 mile channel) occasionally have a series of very large waves occur, with no obvious reason. Some have speculated, that they are summation waves, on top of a large ship's wake--or even summation of large ship wakes.
Usually all of these appear to come out of nowhere, but because they are long waveforms, and at sea, they do not break, there is gradual rise and fall of a boat, or the horizon looking from the boat, until they reach shoal water, and then become a breaker.
Certainly a happy story, because an hour in 52 degree water, plus the trauma of the event, may have been fatal. Also the response of the CG to organize a salvage party--sounds like the Coast Guard of old! Glad to hear of that!
Lessons--when there is an unusual surge--be especially aware--and if any question, get out of the shallow area.
Have a hand held, water proof, floating, VhF radio on your person. Have a Personal locator beacon on your person. I noted earlier today, that I had purchased the Standard Horizon HX 870, which has DSC--and once that is triggered it will set off alarms in other boats who have radios, and even if the CG does not receive the distress, the other boats radios will relay the distress, and the CG would then be alerted. Also local rescue may be affected, and especially in cold water, this might mean the difference between life and death. The VHF radio can give a signal, which the Helo can home on, and rescue will be faster.
One book I enjoy is "Oceanography and Seamanship by William G Van Dorn (PhD in Oceanography. This is a book well worth owning if you are a student of the sea!
There are also several other types of waves: Some known by their regional names: rissaga (Catalan), milghuba (Maltese), marrobbio (Italian), abiki (Japanese), šćiga (Croatian). are known as meteotsunami or meteorological tsunami--that is Tsunami type waves but caused by meteorological conditions.
There are also the seiche which is a standing wave in an enclosed or partially enclosed body of water. These are usually caused by either the meteorological conditions, minor tsunami, or as in the first case, by summation waves.
In S. Calif, the N. facing beach (toward the main land, with only a 25 mile channel) occasionally have a series of very large waves occur, with no obvious reason. Some have speculated, that they are summation waves, on top of a large ship's wake--or even summation of large ship wakes.
Usually all of these appear to come out of nowhere, but because they are long waveforms, and at sea, they do not break, there is gradual rise and fall of a boat, or the horizon looking from the boat, until they reach shoal water, and then become a breaker.
Certainly a happy story, because an hour in 52 degree water, plus the trauma of the event, may have been fatal. Also the response of the CG to organize a salvage party--sounds like the Coast Guard of old! Glad to hear of that!
Lessons--when there is an unusual surge--be especially aware--and if any question, get out of the shallow area.
Have a hand held, water proof, floating, VhF radio on your person. Have a Personal locator beacon on your person. I noted earlier today, that I had purchased the Standard Horizon HX 870, which has DSC--and once that is triggered it will set off alarms in other boats who have radios, and even if the CG does not receive the distress, the other boats radios will relay the distress, and the CG would then be alerted. Also local rescue may be affected, and especially in cold water, this might mean the difference between life and death. The VHF radio can give a signal, which the Helo can home on, and rescue will be faster.
One book I enjoy is "Oceanography and Seamanship by William G Van Dorn (PhD in Oceanography. This is a book well worth owning if you are a student of the sea!
There is a concrete bridge on Eleuthera Kay in the Bahamas, near the "Glass Window", that is 50ft or more above the ocean, between two cliffs. On a calm day a rogue wave rolled in and lifted the bridge and dropped it askew back onto the roadway. Now jury rigged and passable, it is a testimony to the power, and unpredictability of these waves.
anchorout":10pxk2e8 said:
It is my understand that satellites have been able to spot rogue waves in the worlds oceans and track them to some degree.
My grandfather's sailing ship was pooped in the Indian Ocean with a huge wave. and as he was at the helm, was badly smashed up. He subsequently had to have his leg amputated. I have his "diary" from the 1880's and they knew about large waves but the title of "rogue" wave is a fairly new title. I think "rogue" comes from the fact that they are not only very big and they may come from a direction that's different from the general set of the waves you're encountering.
We have to remember that there are different origins of the "giant" waves. Most are definitely from storms--and these are what are sink the vast majority of ships. It has been documented by observation for many years from ships that there were these waves over 100 feet. Many people did not believe this. Often these huge waves do not reach the shore (for several reasons). The mechanism of these waves, their origin and decline, are documented in the Van Dorn book.
Since 1975 a 3rd modality of measurement of wave height has been added(Buoy and ship observations were the standard) by satellite radar altimeters. These are quite accurate. But they are less likely to "see" that very long but high solitary wave in the ocean. There are also specialized instruments to measure the action and prediction of tsunami.
I have been aware of the "Glass Window" for many years. This initially was a natural rock arch. (painted by Winslow Homer in 1895. The arch fell in some time in the early 20th century, Since a bridge was built there, there have been many storms which have damaged the bridge (and the vital water supply pipe which runs over the bridge) I sent a PM to Anchorout asking about when the "Rogue Wave" out of a calm sea displaced the bridge. There are well documented damage to this bridge by storms--mostly hurricanes, (since it faces onto the open Atlantic Ocean). The most recent serious damage to the Glass Window bridge was in Dec 2014 due to waves from winter storm Damon. There were some waves which were significantly higher than others. A coast line like this, which rapidly goes from thousands of feet deep to abrupt cliffs, is more likely to be damaged by the high waves.
Since 1975 a 3rd modality of measurement of wave height has been added(Buoy and ship observations were the standard) by satellite radar altimeters. These are quite accurate. But they are less likely to "see" that very long but high solitary wave in the ocean. There are also specialized instruments to measure the action and prediction of tsunami.
I have been aware of the "Glass Window" for many years. This initially was a natural rock arch. (painted by Winslow Homer in 1895. The arch fell in some time in the early 20th century, Since a bridge was built there, there have been many storms which have damaged the bridge (and the vital water supply pipe which runs over the bridge) I sent a PM to Anchorout asking about when the "Rogue Wave" out of a calm sea displaced the bridge. There are well documented damage to this bridge by storms--mostly hurricanes, (since it faces onto the open Atlantic Ocean). The most recent serious damage to the Glass Window bridge was in Dec 2014 due to waves from winter storm Damon. There were some waves which were significantly higher than others. A coast line like this, which rapidly goes from thousands of feet deep to abrupt cliffs, is more likely to be damaged by the high waves.
http://www.eleuthera-map.com/rage-glass ... idge-1.htm
Anyone still interested in the Glass Window Bridge in Eleuthera, above is a great story, one of many concerning this bridge versus rogue waves, rages, and the sea.
Anyone still interested in the Glass Window Bridge in Eleuthera, above is a great story, one of many concerning this bridge versus rogue waves, rages, and the sea.
The story of Sam Pedican death describes "A Windy, overcast day of chilly squalls...
He parked his truck on one side of the bridge, The story is not clear the state of the bridge at this time, It has been damaged many times by storms.
The conditions at the time of Sam Pedican's crossing was described as "heavy weather", and when he returned, to be swept to his death, the weather was described as being heavier.
Usually these large wave events are present with other large waves--even though the storm may be some distance away.
He parked his truck on one side of the bridge, The story is not clear the state of the bridge at this time, It has been damaged many times by storms.
The conditions at the time of Sam Pedican's crossing was described as "heavy weather", and when he returned, to be swept to his death, the weather was described as being heavier.
Usually these large wave events are present with other large waves--even though the storm may be some distance away.
Here's another one. http://www.eleuthera-map.com/glass-wind ... uthera.htm
From above article, "Rogue waves have been known to arrive unexpectedly and wash over the bridge and nearby cliffs. Since there are no immediate reefs along the ocean side to ..."
Also, a net search of "Rogue Waves" will list dates and times of hundreds of events worldwide, throughout history, many in modern times in the waters off of the Bahamas. I seriously doubt that Eleuthera is exempt from the effects.
When a local resident tells me that a rogue wave hit and dislodged the bridge, I have no reason to doubt him, or make an issue of his story.
From above article, "Rogue waves have been known to arrive unexpectedly and wash over the bridge and nearby cliffs. Since there are no immediate reefs along the ocean side to ..."
Also, a net search of "Rogue Waves" will list dates and times of hundreds of events worldwide, throughout history, many in modern times in the waters off of the Bahamas. I seriously doubt that Eleuthera is exempt from the effects.
When a local resident tells me that a rogue wave hit and dislodged the bridge, I have no reason to doubt him, or make an issue of his story.
I've fished in the general area where the boat was flipped many, many times. Strawberry rock is at 48 18.996'N and 124 42.010W. It is surrounded by water that averages about 30' but there are many rocks in the area that are quite shallow and some which are covered during high tides. The reef that is just "inside of Strawberry Rock" has many such rocks that are near the surface or above the surface depending on tide. It averages maybe 15' deep.
The guide - John Waring - is someone with whom I'm not familiar. There's a BC guide from Chilliwak with that name but I don't know of anyone regularly guiding out of Neah Bay with that name or with a center console boat like the one shown in the picture. The boat that was over turned was a 21' Arima skip tower, a bit small for a guide boat so it was probably someone's personal pleasure boat. Breakers near the rocks in this area are not uncommon and there are several locations on the chart marked "breakers".
From the JA buoy at the end of the Strait of Juan de Fuca, the recorded swell height at 10:30 that morning was 5.9' (1.8m) with a 14.8s period but there was also a 1.6' (0.5m) wind wave on top of that with a period of 3.4s. The wind was 15kts from the east (which is a pretty unusual direction for that area) and there were gusts to around 19kts. The winds were probably lighter down by Strawberry Rock as they would be on the lee side of shore with an E wind.
It sounds a lot like the whale watching boat accident from last year. They were in relatively shallow water in an area which is known to produce occasional breakers. The wind was against the tide. The probably drifted a little shallower than would be desired and an area without breaking waves had a larger than average wave come in and break in shallow water. In the case of the whale watching boat in BC, the area had been the site of a previous, similar accident but it was long enough ago that the current crew didn't know about the potential.
These fishermen probably were fairly used to fishing in some relatively sloppy water and were apparently not too concerned about the conditions they were in at the time. I've certainly fished in similar size swells and with such a long period, they are generally not an issue. The wind was up a bit more than I like for fishing but it was not terrible (but not nice in a 21' Arima). The main mistake was not realizing that big, long period swells can unexpectedly break in fairly shallow water and they probably shouldn't have been fishing such a shallow reef in those conditions.
The guide - John Waring - is someone with whom I'm not familiar. There's a BC guide from Chilliwak with that name but I don't know of anyone regularly guiding out of Neah Bay with that name or with a center console boat like the one shown in the picture. The boat that was over turned was a 21' Arima skip tower, a bit small for a guide boat so it was probably someone's personal pleasure boat. Breakers near the rocks in this area are not uncommon and there are several locations on the chart marked "breakers".
From the JA buoy at the end of the Strait of Juan de Fuca, the recorded swell height at 10:30 that morning was 5.9' (1.8m) with a 14.8s period but there was also a 1.6' (0.5m) wind wave on top of that with a period of 3.4s. The wind was 15kts from the east (which is a pretty unusual direction for that area) and there were gusts to around 19kts. The winds were probably lighter down by Strawberry Rock as they would be on the lee side of shore with an E wind.
It sounds a lot like the whale watching boat accident from last year. They were in relatively shallow water in an area which is known to produce occasional breakers. The wind was against the tide. The probably drifted a little shallower than would be desired and an area without breaking waves had a larger than average wave come in and break in shallow water. In the case of the whale watching boat in BC, the area had been the site of a previous, similar accident but it was long enough ago that the current crew didn't know about the potential.
These fishermen probably were fairly used to fishing in some relatively sloppy water and were apparently not too concerned about the conditions they were in at the time. I've certainly fished in similar size swells and with such a long period, they are generally not an issue. The wind was up a bit more than I like for fishing but it was not terrible (but not nice in a 21' Arima). The main mistake was not realizing that big, long period swells can unexpectedly break in fairly shallow water and they probably shouldn't have been fishing such a shallow reef in those conditions.
AstoriaDave
New member
Anyone looking for a good reference book on waves, rogue, tidal, and others, might find Willard Bascom's short text an interesting read. Pitched at the general audience, but authoritative, and very well written, I have owned 4 or 5 copies, but every time I loan one out, it fails to return! I cannot really blame the lendees, because it is so good, they feel obliged to keep it.
http://www.amazon.com/Waves-Beaches-Dyn ... 918&sr=1-1
Bascom was one of the original oceanographers who grew the discipline post WWII in the glory days. He and his group did the grunt work categorizing beaches and how their shape affected waves and erosion from same, the whole west coast of the continental US, slopping a ways into Canada and Mexico. Using a DUKW amphibious craft to plow through sometimes monstrous surf, returning so they could do leadline surveys of depth, employing two transits and a radio to place their depths.
Many adventures, and a very clear description of the origin of the mongo wave trains which destroyed the San Pedro jetty: all the way from the Indian Ocean, filtered through the archipelagoes leading to the South Pacific.
Often out of print, but on Amazon right now, per the above link.
And, no, I am not loaning out my copy! Any more!
http://www.amazon.com/Waves-Beaches-Dyn ... 918&sr=1-1
Bascom was one of the original oceanographers who grew the discipline post WWII in the glory days. He and his group did the grunt work categorizing beaches and how their shape affected waves and erosion from same, the whole west coast of the continental US, slopping a ways into Canada and Mexico. Using a DUKW amphibious craft to plow through sometimes monstrous surf, returning so they could do leadline surveys of depth, employing two transits and a radio to place their depths.
Many adventures, and a very clear description of the origin of the mongo wave trains which destroyed the San Pedro jetty: all the way from the Indian Ocean, filtered through the archipelagoes leading to the South Pacific.
Often out of print, but on Amazon right now, per the above link.
And, no, I am not loaning out my copy! Any more!
starcrafttom
Active member
what roger said.
Dave, Thanks for the link to that book--I have a used one on order.
One item I have noted in almost all of these "Rogue waves" on the shore is the prodromal either surge (mentioned in this incident) or sucking out of water before the wave sets (as I have noted many times in the S. Calif. Channel Islands.) Also always observed with the Rogue waves in the Med, and Tsunamis. Rarely are these a single wave--again--in this case, another wave came along and flipped the boat. There is always a cause--no mystery. There are also almost always warnings--unfortunately most people are not attuned to them.
One item I have noted in almost all of these "Rogue waves" on the shore is the prodromal either surge (mentioned in this incident) or sucking out of water before the wave sets (as I have noted many times in the S. Calif. Channel Islands.) Also always observed with the Rogue waves in the Med, and Tsunamis. Rarely are these a single wave--again--in this case, another wave came along and flipped the boat. There is always a cause--no mystery. There are also almost always warnings--unfortunately most people are not attuned to them.