Bilge question - where is the water coming from?

J

jmcintyre

New member
I have a 2007 22 Cruiser. I had to replace the bilge pump the other day after it melted from being clogged with debris. I won't let that happen again.

Anyways, while I was doing this, I was vacuuming all of the water out of the bilge, include the small, lower level rectangular area for the drain plug. When nearly empty of water, I discovered water coming from a small hole on the vertical surface of the forward side of this rectangular area. It's about a quarter of an inch and you can't see this hole, but you can feel it. Water would come out of this hole and fill the rectangular bilge area back up.

Is this supposed to be like this? Where does this water come from? Need I be concerned? If this is supposed to be like this, what is the purpose?

Thanks, John
 
Sounds like your boat has a unintended hole in an area designed to collect water for the bilge pump, and the seepage has saturated the enclosed foam filled space under the rear cockpit liner that forms the rear cockpit deck and support for the fuel tanks.
 
I don't know if this "foam enclosed space" or the balsa cored hull in a 2007 boat. But it needs immediate attention. If the core is wet, this is not a good thing. The boat should be under warantee.

I would contact the factory and see what they will do. It may be just a small area, or it may require extensive surgery.

Is the boat kept in the water, or on a trailer. If it is on a trailer, it sould have the drain plug out and the boat tilted so that any water in the sump can run out through the drain plug.
 
From conversation with Bret at the old C-Dory, I understand the rear cockpit liner is glassed into the gunnels, rear transom, and front cabin, and the rear deck structure utilizes a balsa core. The result is a large open space between the liner and the normal C-Dory hull, and this area has been filled with "some floatation foam" (not structural) on some boats.
 
Albury23":2ybwbiie said:
From conversation with Bret at the old C-Dory, I understand the rear cockpit liner is glassed into the gunnels, rear transom, and front cabin, and the rear deck structure utilizes a balsa core. The result is a large open space between the liner and the normal C-Dory hull, and this area has been filled with "some floatation foam" (not structural) on some boats.
Click to expand...

So if it's not structural, and only flotation foam, and the balsa coring of the floor is encapsulated and therefore safe from water intrusion, the solution would be to drain the area, aerate it to finish drying it out, and then seal it, since there's no practical way to fill it now without either adding a lot of weight, or chancing that expanding foam would try to separate the liner and the hull.

After draining it, I'd get an aquarium air pump, insert a tube into the hole, and use air and even some heat, such as a lamp (in moderation), to dry the area out, then seal it off. Might even be willing to drill a small enlargement hole to get better access for the air tube. Would be nice to get the tube down deep into the void for better circulation and drying. The heat could be applied from below more effectively, but if you live in someplace like Redding, just put the boat out in the sun and use the air.

I'd fill the hole up with MarineTex, then add 2-3 layers of glass over it with resin, if the size or situation seemed to require it. Paint it over for cosmetic reasons. Not too important now, but when you later want to sell the boat....

This could be a problem that we'll see again.......more than once. I wonder if there are other boats out there with water in this void that are unaware of it?

It the void such that another drain plug through the transom could be added for this inner space? Would also be an easier and quicker way to dry it out now! (That'd be a plug you wouldn't have to remove every time you launch, or certainly forget to replace before launching.)

If this void extends all around under the entire 4 foot by 6 foot floor, that's a really big area to get water in, to dry out, and to have pinhole or other leaks into.


Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I do believe that Albury is misunderstanding where the foam is and isn't.
I don't think there is any foam in the cockpit deck/floor where you stand or under the motor well/gas tank area.
The foam is usually between the liner and outer hull up under the gunnel on the motor well.
I am not sure on the newer boats but I doubt there is any flotation foam in any area between the bottom and deck.


JT
 
If this is from a void between the cockpit deck and the actual hull, then it is less serious from a structural stand point. Again, photos would help us (I understand that it may be hard to get a camera in there, but using the "macro mode" it may give us some clues.)

Agree with Joe on most of his suggestions, but I would worry about weight of water in the foam. There could be a lot of weight there, depending on how much water is trapped. I would tend to use a vacuum pump (venturi type with an air compressor would be fine) to try and suck out water, rather than just aerating.

If you had a weight on the boat previously, and then weight now, it may give you some idea of how much water there is in this area (if any).

In either case, call the factory and get their read on it. (I know there was a different company which built your boat).
 
When we purchased our 2008 CD22, the dealer had placed the batteries in-between the fuel tanks. This is a great place, but they of course did not properly seal the screw holes. Being a bit nervous with having "sometimes" standing water in this area, I moved the batteries. When I took out the screws I noticed a bit of water (not much, just wet) in a couple of the holes. I drilled a larger hole and used a shopvac to pull up as much water as possible - I then filled with epoxy.

I can tell you on our boat there was no foam in the "gap" area - or at least in the areas that I drilled. Most of the screw holes had no water, so I don't know if that area was filled with foam or not.

Anyway, I re-sealed everything and we should be good to go. I would doubt that you'll have any problems once you get out all the water - meaning I think the water is just in the gap - not in the balsa.
 
I appreciate your responses. I will contact the factory and see what I can find out. I didn't think it was a good thing and your responses confirmed that. Will post what I find out. Will be out of town for a few days, so it might be awhile.

Thanks, John
 
Hi John
I to have a 2007 22' I had a the same Problem but the little hole was at the other end of the floor, below the entrance door.(in side the Cabin) I had put a seat pestle on the deck, ours did have some foam under the floor. First I though the pestle was leaking, but it was not. I called the Dealer they told me no water should be under there. I took the seat pestle back out and used a shopvac to get all the water out and reversed the vac. to dry it out. Resealed the pestle, where the water was coming out I put Air Pressure at the little place (about 1/4" hole) to find where the water was coming in from. I used Soap & water all around the Outside deck, then where the Deck was sealed to the back of the Cabin little bubbles came from a very little hole. I resealed the hole. I left the little hole where the water came out below the entrance door, which was on the inside of the Cabin. We have just took the boat out of the water where it had been for 3 months. I put the boat on a Nose down place in my yard and no water came out of the little hole.
I am not to good at giving details give me a PM if you need any other info.
Jim J
 
Hello John,
I am another owner of a 2007 C-Dory 22 with a hole in the same place as yours. I talked to Technical Service yesterday (Frank, I think). He said that that hole should NOT be there and wondered if it had happened at the dealer. That sounded possible but with three 2007's having similar problems I wonder if this could have been missed at the factory. Are there more out there? I plan to take a picture of the hole and send it to Technical Service for their review and subsequent advise. My concern is to the problems that water in that location may cause and how to dry out and seal up that area. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Later,
Rick
 
Both the floor and hull bottom are molded. There is some hand work, and often this may only be one layer of mat, to bond them together. My guess is that they are not putting enough glass in this area. Putting the floor in, gives a little more weight aft, than the earlier boats, and perhaps they are trying to keep the rear light. Using only a single layer of mat, would be more likely to have a small pin hole in this area. I would be most surprised if anything which a dealer did would cause this problem.

The factory needs to step up to the plate, and all of the boats should be checked.
 
This post has had my attention and the weather finally cleared enough for me to go out and take a good look at my boat which is a 2007. I looked closely for a hole in the stern as John describes and one in the cabin as Jim describes and I had neither. My floor is glassed in on the sides and rear but at the cabin bulkhead it appears to be only sealed with something that resembles 5200 but I don't think it's actually 5200. It's developed cracks and appears as if it would be a area that could leak rain or wash down water into the void between the hull and floor. This leads me to believe that the hole may be beneficial in allowing water to drain from this area. The fact that three boats have this hole and my bet is it was put in by the factory after they discovered they had a problem. Regardless I'm tempted to put a hole in myself to determine if I am carry water Actually I don't see how there could not be water in the area given the way the cabin bulkhead is sealed to the floor.
 
Greetings all,

I too have a 2007 that does have the hole (maybe 3/8" or so) at the center, back end of the floor liner in the bilge pump area.

I always assumed it was to drain any water that did get under the liner. When we purchased the boat we were told that the liner was installed on top of the normal glassed hull.

The shape of the hull is such that pre-liner boats have the bilge pump more in the center of the boat because water collects on the aft side of the bulkhead.

We keep the boat on a mooring, so after a rainstorm, Anne and I stand at the back of the boat (I'm usually on the swim platform) to tilt it aft and let the water drain into the bilge so it will be pumped overboard. Because the hole is small, it usually takes a few minutes and a couple of cycles of the pump to clear the water. (Motoring with the bow up will accomplish the same thing.)

Hopefully the factory or one of the dealers will have an answer as to whether the hole is a good thing or something we should worry about.

Jim
 
FYI: I just checked our 2008 CD22 and I was not able to find any holes in the bilge pump area or anywhere in the cockpit (that I could see quickly).

Maybe they did it different in 2008?
 
I think they must have done it several different ways in 2007. Actually I know they did from these post. Jim of Paddy Girl has the hole inside the cabin and his boat was manufactured February of 07. Mine was manufactured June of 07 and and I can't find a hole. Jim & Anne's was manufacutred Sept of 07 and has the hole in the rear of the cockpit. I really wish I had weighed my boat on delivery so I could easily determine if the area is holding water which I suspect it is.
 
Just got off the phone with Frank at C-Dory. I got the impression this deck/bilge hole problem is puzzling him. He had just hung up from talking to one of you about the same thing.

He said there are three foam stringers, supporting the deck and then "bubbles", a mixture of resin and something that creates a lightweight filler near where the deck meets the stern. There shouldn't be anything in there that would rot by water being in there.

However, he did say it may have been injected with expanding foam. If so, this foam is probably saturated with water. I didn't think to ask at the time if the foam stringers would also absorb water. I'm not that familiar with fiberglass boat construction and the different types of materials they use.

He suggested installing an inspection port on the horizontal surface just ahead of the rectangular bilge area. Upside, you can see what is going on in there, downside, you now have a bigger hole. Not sure how I feel about this option yet.

So, I definitely have water sloshing around in there and need to do something about it. It could be quite a bit depending on the distance between the bottom of the hull and the bottom of the hole. Obviously, only the water above the level of the hole would drain out on its own. Below that it would have no where to go.

I need to take the boat into Sportcraft for engine LOF and he was going to talk to them about looking at it further.

Thanks, John
 
I initially missed the fact the new boats have a flat floor installed.
My 87' was not flat, no water under floor.
It seems a problem may have been created while upgrading to flat floors.
The factory should be able to fix this easy enough. Leave out the foam?
Change stringers? Do both?
Albury, I was the one who misunderstood. Sorry about that.


JT :smiled
 
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