Bilge question - where is the water coming from?

I was actually thinking of putting the access port on the top of the floor with a flush mount round access port. The type that screws down and has a big O Ring. It would be in the raised section prior to the drop off, in the center and forward of the gas tanks. That way I could inspect the cavity between the real hull and the raised floor. The only problem I see, with my luck, is that i would hit or be in the middle of a stringer.

Jim
 
Hi Jim,
I have a little water under our floor on the rear, On the inside of the door at the bottom it was not sealed good, there is a little hole, a little water comes out there that tells me that water under the rear floor. It has been in the water for 3 months.
If you install a hoz. inspection plate let us know where you did it. When I get it out of the water in about 2 weeks I will pressure check it to see where the water got in at. But would like to have a inspection plate to look in there.
I had some under there last year, I found a little place that was not sealed good on the outside right of the door, I sealed it and have not had a problem until about 3 weeks ago.
Jim (Pandy Girl)
 
Fluid Marine told me there are three foam stringers supporting the cockpit deck. One running down the center and two more about half way between the center and the edge.
 
Good Information on where the stringers are. That tells me I don’t want to center it forward on the floor lined up with the drain hole. As my boat is in Canada and I’m in New Jersey I won’t even know if I have this water problem until I get up north again, at the end of the month, and check thinks out. I’m going to check to see whether or not I have a hole in the aft part of the floor and then maybe try to hook a shop vac up to it and see what I pull out. If I get water, then I’m going to try to reverse the shop vac and spray some soapy water in the cockpit area to see if I can find out where the water in getting in from. Depending on the outcomes, and my tolerance for aggravation I may then go to the access port route, or some simple type of drain plug/access at the floor hole that lets me keep checking on whether water is getting in or not. As I’m still working, the boat and home is at a remote location and only get to use this boat about 30-40 hours a year now, I have balance my projects to boating time or all I will be doing is working on boat and housing projects. I’ll keep you guys informed on what I find and progress.
Thanks for all the help and advice.
Jim
 
Folks I'd been serious about buying a C-Dory and up until the last couple of days I assumed the design with the glass enclosed balsa wood and the manner that the boats were manufactured, that they were a top line boat for the money. Now having read about all of the water intrusion problems into areas of the boat that should be dry, I'm having second thoughts about the boat. I'm concerned that a boat as new as a 2007 would have the problem after all of the years of manufacturing.
Is this a problem that's common throughout the different years and sizes of the boat? :?: Thanks, Jim
 
Jim, the stuff we are discussing really is not effecting in integrity of the boat. As a prior owner of several large Sea Rays I would say the things we are dealing with are somewhat minor, but because of the boat size, the type of people that tend to buy these boats and the overall layout of the boat, they are more apparent. The people that buy these boats are normally somewhat handy and care for them like a car collector. They also don’t hold any info back and tend to want share any upgrades or small things they find to “help out the guys”. People share things like I found an extra screw in the bilge, anyone know where it may have come from? In my prior boats I always found extra screws and water in the bilge and didn’t give it a second thought. I just put the screws in a jar in case and made sure the pumps worked and the batteries were charged. These are really very simple boats with a lot of utility not much to go wrong and not many hidden problems you are going to find later.
That‘s my take and why, “and don’t take this wrong” i moved down to a smaller and simpler boat. I want to use it, not work on it.

Jim
 
jhayes1068":21pl97ki said:
Folks I'd been serious about buying a C-Dory and up until the last couple of days I assumed the design with the glass enclosed balsa wood and the manner that the boats were manufactured, that they were a top line boat for the money. Now having read about all of the water intrusion problems into areas of the boat that should be dry, I'm having second thoughts about the boat. I'm concerned that a boat as new as a 2007 would have the problem after all of the years of manufacturing.
Is this a problem that's common throughout the different years and sizes of the boat? :?: Thanks, Jim
Click to expand...

Virtually all the problems are with the boats larger than the 22's, specifically the ones with complex floor, hull, and cabin integration designs.

The more modern C-Dory 22's and smaller boats with balsa floors have been trouble free, if properly cared for. .

The older "Classic" pre-1987 22's have plywood encapsulated floors and transoms that can be a problem if water is allowed to intrude.

Most of all of the C-Dorys have transoms that have plywood encapsulated in them that can have problems with water intrusion if not cared for properly.

Thoughtful care and watching can eliminate these water intrusion problems.

Hardware must always be installed so that it doesn't compromise the water integrity of the encapsulated plywood, balsa, or foam.

Any boat should be routinely carefully inspected to see that any balsa, plywood, or foam core is not compromised with water intrusion, and you can doubly emphasize that point when considering a boat to purchase.

I have a 1987 C-Dory 22 that has never had any water intrusion or leak problems, including the many problems currently discussed on this site.

I was thinking of adding a comment or two regarding the great number of leak and water intrusion problems brought on by the complexity of the more complex hull and floor designs, but thought owners of those boats would find it disparaging, but it's so obvious that there's no real news there to anyone.

Our discussions often come down to the KISS Principle. Simple is better, period.

It's fairly obvious that boat builders do not have bottom line fool proof methods of joining multiple layered fiberglass and core composition materials in more complex designs. At least what the present discussion shows, along with the fact that hurry-up mass production short-cuts often lead to design compromises the the boats produced that do not function properly.

Sadly, Joe. :disgust :thup
 
Thanks, to everyone with information about water intrusion problems on some C-Dory's. That's the beauty of this forum: knowledgeable members willing to share information. As a rookie in the C-Dory world, I appreciate everyone's input. I'll just try to pick a great boat when the time comes. Thanks, Jim :D
 
Hi to New Wantbees,
What you find here is very good info. Like water under the rear floor don't see anything that it will hurt. It is fresh water from Rain not Salt Water. Just think about all other brands that don;t tell other ones about things like this, they may be in salt water with salt water leaks but you never here anyone post it in their forms
Jim (Pandy Girl)
 
Although it may seem to a casual viewer, that much is made of very little (to paraphrase Shakespeare), I have, too, found over the years that the many forums have been a great source of invaluable information. This site is unique, and I greatly admire those who set it up and maintain it.

Since becoming a member, I have tried, as Ross of "Pacific Wanderer" has said, to give back a little of the much I have received. And as someone else has said: Is there nothing so enjoyable as just mucking about in boats?

I would agree as Sea Wolf has so well written, that any glass-cored boat (and that seems to be most) needs to be carefully maintained. Especially when the core is breached, great care should be taken to ensure those holes are properly prepared. And as Sea Wolf (Jack London?) has also pointed out, the larger the boat, the more opportunities for water mischief. As Jim of C-You-Later pointed out, This was a major factor in his decision to move to a smaller and simpler boat.

Tim and Dave
 
Does the C-16 have any "inner hull cavities"? Is the drain plug in the bottom of the transom drain right from the cockpit or is there some inner cavity there?

-Mark
 
I was just up in Canada this weekend and after spending most of the time dealing with house related issues, I did get some time to look over the boat and see how things were. I was able to see that I don't have a hole in the back floor, just forward of the aft bilge. As there was some water in the bilge after the winter, I did not have the time to dry things down and see if I actually have a water issue, or it's just water rolling in from behind the tanks. At least for this 2007 CD 22', it would seem to validate that the hole is a manufacturing error or the factory chipped away some glass during the completion process. I will be up in Canada again next week so if it does not rain I will dry everything down good and see what I get.

Jim
 
Since this was recently brought up again by someone else recently, in a new thread, and someone referred to this thread, I came here since I have a 2007 Cd-22. Low and behold, my boat has two holes. Each one just in front of the Fuel tank space bulkhead, in the bottom corners just outside of the bilge sump area. You can see in these photos the holes in the bottom of the bulkhead. While not shown in the photo, the holes in the very short side wall of the floor sole, are in the same position as those in the bulkhead, as if someone just drillled thru both from behind. So, in the several years that has passed since this thread, what have others learned or done with the holes? Colby

0615131921c.jpg

0615131921b.jpg

0615131921a.jpg
 
I don't have anything like this arrangement in my boat, but of course that doesn't stop me from being curious :lol: Since I see a slight deflection of the fuel tank cover panel in the bottom photo, it makes me wonder if the two matching holes are where the cover panel could/should be attached to the slight vertical portion of the sole (after edge). Or are the lower/inboard edges of the cover panels secured some other way already (like to the fuel tank cleats or something)?

If they were meant to be limber holes, you'd expect (hope) them to be upside-down U shapes at hull (inside/bottom) level instead of raised, fully round holes.

Sunbeam
 
The bulkhead ahead of the fuel tanks is held in place by a few screws along the top. You can remove those top screws, and with a little bit of (ok, a lotta bit of... ;-( determination get those panels out to access the fuel tanks. I thought maybe there would have been screws in those bottom holes to hold the bulkhead against the floor. But then reading all the past comments in this thread, perhaps not. Otherwise, the panels are wedged between the floor and the fuel tanks. In any case, I wish I would have been able to take a mirror to take a picture of the side of the floor board. But if you can imagine pulling those bulkheads flush against the floorboard, the holes in the floorboard line up with the holes in the bulkhead....as if screws would have been in there at one time to attach the two. (Which would make more sense as I think those discussing this in the thread only seemed to have one hole and it was more in the center. Niether of my holes are low, but rather somewhat centered between top and bottom of the floorboard.
 
C-Dawg":19ylxiw3 said:
In my boat, those two holes are used for screws that hold the panel to the deck.
Click to expand...

If so, maybe someone removed them to make the floor (decking) removable for cleaning (?)

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Sea Wolf":q23wleox said:
C-Dawg":q23wleox said:
In my boat, those two holes are used for screws that hold the panel to the deck.
Click to expand...

If so, maybe someone removed them to make the floor (decking) removable for cleaning (?)
Click to expand...

As far as I have seen, the permanent/flat sole in the ~2007 and newer 22's is not removable. It's bonded (sides and after end) and caulked (forward end) in place and designed to stay that way for the life of the boat. The unit I saw (meant for new boats in 2012) was a flat, cored sole with liner-like molded bits port and starboard that ran up the side of the boat a foot or so (bonded in place with methacrylate). At the after end, molded, linery bits extended under the fuel tanks, and at the forward end it was caulked to the cabin/cockpit bulkhead.

This is in contrast to my boat (and perhaps yours too) where the cockpit sole is basically the hull, and if the cockpit sole is flat, then it is the result of the optional "factory" floorboards or a home-made set of same that are simply set in place (and thus removable).

I had the chance to get one of these "inserts" (if you will) to bond into my boat, but I decided to keep it as it came (with the addition of a set of the factory floorboards). I can see plusses and minusses to both types, but I went with the basic/open/simple/optionally deeper "plain" cockpit along with the optional floorboards for my own personal "best of both worlds" choice.
 
Hm, then maybe I just need to replace the screws. ;-) My floorboard is not removable. I don't know if it's exactly like Sunbeam described, without going out to look at it, but the cockpit floor is mostly sealed or bonded all around. No way to get it out with out some cutting. If I'm just missing screws there, then I don't have that hole that others have talked about. Again, it would make more sense to have screws there....Think I'll go ahead and replace them when I get a chance. As it is now, I don't believe it is hurting anything, and since they are not flush against the bottom, I don't think there is any water in there.
 
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