bilge pump which one?

blackfish

New member
sorry I know this has been covered before
I'm going to install a second bilge pump between the fuel tanks and replace the one in the cabin ( the stupid thing wakes me up every ten minutes all night long)which one should I buy I'm thinking I need one with a float in the cabin so it only comes on when needed

thanks
 
The first thing I'd ask is why the pump in the cabin comes on every 10 min. The last time a bilge pump did that for me, I found a serious leak. What am I missing (as usual)?

Boris
 
Boris, for awhile C-Dory was installing the Rule "fully automatic" bilge pumps. These have no float switch and their normal operation is to cycle on every 10 mins. Water is detected by increased resistance in the pump. Many previous CD owners found (find) this very annoying and replaced it with a more traditional float switch operated pump. I put a 1100GPM in Rule with an integrated switch in the cabin and another 1100 GPM with a normal float switch under the motor well.
 
thanks Roger on the SeaDNA thats what i have a "fully automatic" bilge pump.The "integrated switch in the cabin" so the pump only comes on when you hit the switch?

thanks again
 
blackfish":f6206zhk said:
thanks Roger on the SeaDNA thats what i have a "fully automatic" bilge pump.The "integrated switch in the cabin" so the pump only comes on when you hit the switch?

thanks again

No - this kind of pump from Rule
rm_1100w75.jpg
. The non-mercury float switch is built into the unit. You can also buy pumps and float switches separately.
 
blackfish":ig4nnxtj said:
thanks rogerbum that's just what I need. Where did you put the drain for the one under the motor well?

I put mine in the port side near the stern a bit above the water line. Taped over the spot with masking tape - used a hole saw. Run the hole saw in reverse to gently enter the gel coat and go real slow with little pressure when you close to the exiting.

Also, I find it handy to wire an additional switch that's a manual override. The rule automatic pumps have a wire for this. That allows you to turn it on whenever you want it - help clear that last little bit of water.
 
Good thinking all the way through guys!

Putting a replacement pump in the stern under the engine well is a great idea, no matter what!

The only benefit of that mid-cabin "fully automatic" pump is when the boat is moored, docked, or at anchor and needs a forward pump to pump out rainwater which accumulates next to the cabin bulkhead.

Rather than simply yank it out or or completely replace it with a conventional float activated pump, a simpler solution would be to simply put a switch in the power supply line, allowing you to turn it off to sleep. You can then activate it when the boat is left moored unmanned or you're aboard and it's already raining and you need it (you probably won't be able to hear it if it's raining good).

Be sure to add the stern pump anyway!

Just a thought to add......

Joe.
 
When I installed my second pump between the fuel tanks, I used the drain line that was connected to my port side stern compartment. I disconnected the hose from the through hull fitting and connected the bilge pump hose. That way I didn't have to drill another hole in the boat.
 
I replaced out fully automatic Rule with a Rule-Mate, float-switch model a couple years ago because I also didn't like the constant cycling.

Now, I too, am thinking about adding a second one between the fuel tanks, but am thinking of a small diaphragm pump to enable pumping out the last drop. I'm thinking of mounting it on the underside of the starboard lazarette shelf, with an inlet strainer in the sump and the discharge (3/4") hose shoved out the cable boot and into the motor well. Then I don't have to install another through-hull discharge port.

For those of you who have installed a more conventional Rule-Mate bilge pump between the fuel tanks, how do you feel it serves in terms of evacuating all of the accumulated water? If I don't have to spend the money on a diaphragm pump, I'd just as soon not.

As an aside, I'm also considering somehow tee-ing in a drain from the fresh water tank, through the drain fitting below the cabin door, such that on the way home from a trip I could open it and drain the water to the aft bilge and then not have to pump it out manually at home.
Al
 
I have not installed a second bilge pump yet, but I am thinking of putting a manual Whale pump in as my backup. I am thinking about glueing a good looking piece of wood to the side of the hull to screw the pump down, then running the pick up hose back to the sump between the fuel cells. For the outflow, I think that I may just clip the hose under the gunnel shelf, then flop it over the side when in use.

There was another link on this topic where someone had done something similar, but the pump was through bolted to the hull.

Steve
 
I think I'm going to just install a switch to the cabin pump then install a second one between the fuel tanks the first owner left us a new(still in package) fully automatic so I'll just use that for now with the drain going to the existing hole on the port side

On a different note Steve just wondering what size kicker you have on the constant craving? also is that alderbay resort in your photo album?
 
Hi Blackfish,

Yes that is Alder Bay in the background. We decided to launch there to avoid the craziness at Telegraph Cove.

I am running a new Honda 8 (manual start/tilt) for my kicker. I started out with an older classic 8, but did not like the throttle control for trolling. It was a good engine for pushing a sailboat, but not so great as a kicker.

Regards,

Steve
 
Pardon my ignorance, but does the factory still put a bilge pump in the cabin? I have a 2007 model and haven't located one, only the one between the fuel tanks.
 
Al, I have the rule 1100 with the integral float switch in the cabin
amidships, by the door. I am sure yours is similar. I liked the pump okay. I planned to buy a big pump for the stern. Then there was a big sale and I ended up putting two more 1100s in the stern.

Both pumps are in the shallow well ahead of bilge plug. Sboard pumps thru cable gusset into motor well. Port pumps thru hull. Both exhaust hoses have goose necks, important for the port side.

The stern pumps never come on that I am awre of. Maybe they come on when I am running and get spray and the occasional green water back there. At rest, during big rains, the midships bilge always turns on first and the water level in the stern doesn't get deep enough to trigger the stern pumps. The switches for the stern pumps are in the lazarettes and if you turn them on manually they will drain to about 3/8 inch. The diaphragm pump would keep the deck drier. I have the three pumps each wired to a separate battery with the stern pumps always hot even when batteries are switched off. I'm aware of the pros and cons of doing so.

However dry your midship bilge keeps that well the stern pump will do the same in the stern well. Of course with boats our vintage the water doesn't nec. flow to stern. Lots of mixed blessings eh?

Mark
 
Boy I hear you about that confounded autopump keeping you awake at nights. Lots of good ideas above.
Being cheap, I spent $9 on a water alarm at Home depot, if it gets wet it lets out a heck of a squall. I stuck it in the bilge and turned the pump off. That worked for a bit but, being a worry wart, I went on to install the second bilge pump mounted on a piece of aluminum angle mounted accross the fuel tank stops. Ran the discharge as Roger did. I glued a piece of wood in the battery compartment to mount the on/off/auto switch on. The set up works good but it's mounted a bit high and leaves a fair bit of water in the cockpit.
 
Mine came with a Rule 1100 pump in the cabin and one between the fuel tanks. The one in the cabin will come on by itself or a switch. The one in the stern will only come on when a couple inches of water accumulate. This drives me bonkers so I want to install a switch on that one. When fishing I seem to be stern heavy so that's where the water pools. Seems like it should trigger before it actually does.
 
I've installed a second bilge pump on our 22, in the floor depression between the fuel tanks. Here are a few particulars that might be of use to others:

Forget mounting screws, brackets, etc. Just use 4200 to bond the bottom of the pump's plastic strainer basket to the floor. Has worked for two years, and never come loose. The pump comes loose from the plastic bottom whenever I need to clean the metal strainer.

There's no way you're ever going to pump out all the water from the rear sump. Two factors are at work. First, the pump will start drawing air, and quit pumping, while there's still some water in the sump. There's nothing you can do about this. Second, once the water in the discharge line stops flowing overboard, all the water that's left in the "up" leg of the line will flow back into the sump. The only way to handle backflow, absent a check valve, is to reduce the amount of water in the line. There are three things you can do here. First, keep the line as short as possible. Cut the length of the "up" leg in half, and you've cut the amount of backflow in half. Second, get a pump with the smallest outlet port available. That way, you use smaller diameter hose, and have less water in the hose, waiting to flow back into the sump. Reducing the hose diameter by 1/2 reduces the amount of water by a factor of 4. Finally, as a variant of the second approach, use an adaptor/reducer to reduce the size of the hose. Either way, you're trading off flow rate for volume of return water. That's OK with me, since my purpose in installing the pump in the first place was to get rid of a small amount of water. If I want a backup, high volume, emergency pump, I'll install that separately.

I've wired a bilge pump "kill switch" for the second pump, at the helm station. That way, if the "kill" is engaged, throwing the bilge switch on the main switch panel will only activate the main pump, at the aft of the cabin. With the "kill" disengaged, throwing the main switch powers both pumps.

As somewhat of an aside, after years of getting annoyed at the water that accumulates in the two sumps when the boat is on the trailer, I took a lesson from my dad, and put a small strip (1 inch by 12 inches) of rag in each wet area, and use it to wick the water out. The main bilge sump wicks up onto the deck, and then drains toward the rear sump. The rear wick wets in the rear sump, and goes on through the drain plug hole, with a tail hanging down outside the boat. You have to be careful that the wicks don't end up plugging the drain hole, but so long as you're careful on sizing, and secure the ends, these wicks keep the sumps bone dry when you're on the hard.
 
Say Dave,

Dad's idea sounds like a good one. I usually have enough of a tilt to my trailer that it stays dry. But, do you think the rag strip would work in the motor well? There is always a pool of water in the motor well as my scuppers are set 1/2 inch or so above the motor well deck.

Regards,

Mark
 
Sorry to horn in here, but thought of an idea that might help....

The scuppers/drain holes are about 1/2" above the bottom of the motor well because they cannot be mounted lower due to the curvature at the interface between the bottom of the back necessary for the well's release from the mold in manufacturing, and also because the curvaturre is necessary for cosmetic reasons.

I'll bet that water that accumulates at rest can be evaporated out of there with a wick system, but since a wick or rag would be akward, I'd suggest using a piece of felt surfaced indoor/outdoor carpet instead.

A piece 6'-12' wide and long enough to fit entirely accross the motor well will displace most of the water with it's ribber backing directly, and the front felt side would wick away the rest.

I've noticed this works well on the floor of my 22 where the whole area is covered with carpet that helps wick away that bothersome rainwater that gravitates forward. This works for small amounts of rain, but larger amounts take more serious action.

Just a passing thought!

Joe. :smile
 
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