Article on Marijuana on boats

[thataway]

I would have agreed with you if you had included alcohol in your statement as we all know alcohol has both physical and psychological dependence at rates hundreds of times greater than marijuana. I wouldn't mind breathalyzer checks for the registered boat owners upon return to the boat launch.

That is a puzzling response, considering your post about a sign on your boat--because I left out alcohol, you don't agree with what I posted-- but you would if I had mentioned the evils of alcohol?

I am probably more aware of the problems of alcohol (and mind altering substances) than most, having worked in charity hospital emergency rooms a number of years, practicing medicine for over 30 years and helping with a few marine accident investigations. I left alcohol out, since it is entirely another topic, and should not be equated with marijuana. I don't think that the average person has any concept of the problems with chronic alcoholics--The DT's, death with cirrhosis of the liver, massive intractable bleeding from esophageal varicose veins. Add in abuse of others; I started to get more graphic--and decided not ..Don't get me started!

My objection to marijuana propaganda is that it is "harmless". It is not. A fact not fully appreciated is that Yes, any substance, including water used to excess is dangerous. Problem is that many people do not have the innate judgement to avoid using any potentially mind altering substance when getting behind the wheel of a car or the helm of a boat.

My personal view is that why make more available other mind altering substances for our youth, and those who are going to abuse it? I fully realize the issues about incarceration, and crime.

The intent of the initial post was to inquire as to how states were handling a potential substance abuse issue, not to start an argument about use of substances which are federally illegal to posses.

 

[Peter & Judy]

Sometime later this year marijuana will be legal across Canada. There has been a lot of discussion about driving while impaired by marijuana, but this thread is the first place where I have heard any discussion about marijuana impaired boating. How to test for marijuana impaired driving has been a big discussion with law enforcement up here. I wonder who will be checking out on the water. Boating and drinking is a common pastime. But now the question arises about marijuana impaired boating. Will there actually be an increase as people shift from illegal marijuana to legal marijuana? An interesting note, I heard on a radio program recently was that, we have been worried about our kids getting hooked on dope once it is legalized. The stats indicate that it will likely be the boomers that will be the biggest customers for legal marijuana as they are currently the biggest consumers of illegal marijuana. Don't worry about the kids, it's grandpa you have to watch out for.

 

[RobLL]

Alcohol addiction typically affects 4-5 other people besides the alcoholic, and in major ways. Pot is less harmful.

Followed a family with a pot head husband, hard on the family but not as hard as when he could no longer afford pot and switched to meth.

Most pot users are not heavy users, nor addicted. IIRC, far fewer side effects from pot use than alcohol.

Pot is a downer, far safer for user, family, police, bystanders than meth, cocaine, or alcohol (which causes aggresion in many users).

 

[localboy]

So much to talk about, so little time.

I see the effects of it all, in real life, daily. One need only walk around downtown Seattle to see the results.

A. the illicit mj trade is alive and well. The financial incentive is too tempting and the risk insignificant here. The retail prices for "legal" mj are sky high, so the illicit market remains.

B. Anyone that thinks teenagers et al are NOT partaking in large numbers is either in denial or just plain brainwashed.

C. Comparing mj to meth, cocaine, crack or heroin is apples to oranges. That does not mitigate the fact that mj is a drug. It's effects are well known and it impairs. Period. Again, they call it DOPE for a reason.

D. Using truly sick people to forward an political agenda is despicable.

E. I heard from all the mj "experts" (aka stoners) how it's "cured", well, everything. Of course this will come as a shock to people who are dying of myriad fatal diseases. Any oncologist will tell you different, as Dr Bob has. But why let facts and science get in the way?

 

[forrest]

So much to talk about, so little time.

I see the effects of it all, in real life, daily. One need only walk around downtown Seattle to see the results.

A. the illicit mj trade is alive and well. The financial incentive is too tempting and the risk insignificant here. The retail prices for "legal" mj are sky high, so the illicit market remains.

B. Anyone that thinks teenagers et al are NOT partaking in large numbers is either in denial or just plain brainwashed.

C. Comparing mj to meth, cocaine, crack or heroin is apples to oranges. That does not mitigate the fact that mj is a drug. It's effects are well known and it impairs. Period. Again, they call it DOPE for a reason.

D. Using truly sick people to forward an political agenda is despicable.

E. I heard from all the mj "experts" (aka stoners) how it's "cured", well, everything. Of course this will come as a shock to people who are dying of myriad fatal diseases. Any oncologist will tell you different, as Dr Bob has. But why let facts and science get in the way?

If you would have included alcohol in your rant you would have some credibility. But you didn't so you don't.

 

[hardee]

So True, and that is probably only half of it.

I have had patients who had medical mj cards who had to "dose" before bedtime. Usually that was after we had hooked them up for a sleep study (which includes many of the same monitoring leads as an EEG.) There were obvious changes in brain wave patterns from before (which would be the baseline and calibration section), and after which was the actual sleep study. There were changes in eye motion patterns, and in the brain waves.

Full disclosure, I never used mj, but have been where it was being used enough to know that it made my head feel "funny, like heartbeat in my head" feeling. Not something I liked. It was enough to cause me to avoid being around it in the future.

There are differences in the THC content of various species of the plant, but there are no variety that have no THC, the chemical that causes the "high". I have no idea of the THC content of what my patients had used. I do know that over several cases their were consistencies that were similar but variable.

That was enough evidence for me to confirm I had made a good decision way back when.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[hardee]

So much to talk about, so little time.

I see the effects of it all, in real life, daily. One need only walk around downtown Seattle to see the results.

A. the illicit mj trade is alive and well. The financial incentive is too tempting and the risk insignificant here. The retail prices for "legal" mj are sky high, so the illicit market remains.

B. Anyone that thinks teenagers et al are NOT partaking in large numbers is either in denial or just plain brainwashed.

C. Comparing mj to meth, cocaine, crack or heroin is apples to oranges. That does not mitigate the fact that mj is a drug. It's effects are well known and it impairs. Period. Again, they call it DOPE for a reason.

D. Using truly sick people to forward an political agenda is despicable.

E. I heard from all the mj "experts" (aka stoners) how it's "cured", well, everything. Of course this will come as a shock to people who are dying of myriad fatal diseases. Any oncologist will tell you different, as Dr Bob has. But why let facts and science get in the way?

If you would have included alcohol in your rant you would have some credibility. But you didn't so you don't.

forrest, The original thread is addressing MJ. No need to include ETOH in Mark's post. I agree that alcohol is also detrimentally effective.

BTW, I applaud your service with the Wounded Warriors Project.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[localboy]

If you would have included alcohol in your rant you would have some credibility. But you didn't so you don't.

The truth hurts.

 

[kennharriet]

Another perspective. I work for a private corporation. Insurability by the company’s insurance company is a condition of employment. If an employee is charged as an impaired operator of a motor vehicle, they are considered uninsurable for a minimum of at least five years, which means employment is terminated. They may have a valid drivers license, but that does not matter because they are still uninsurable. If the company allows them to drive knowing the individual has had an impaired driver infraction, a legal term called “negligent entrustment” comes to play. Basically a private corporation is extremely liable by continuing to employ that individual.

 

[Ordutch1975]

A. the illicit mj trade is alive and well. The financial incentive is too tempting and the risk insignificant here. The retail prices for "legal" mj are sky high, so the illicit market remains.

The illicit trade is indeed still alive and well - The reality is its cheaper than buying it at the store and guess what you don't have to go to a shop be seen there maybe by someone you don't want etc.

Look I am all for legalization and decriminalization of usage. However I am against the massive billboards and advertising - I saw a guy the other day dancing on a corner of the street with a similar sign like you see for mattress stores or liquidations except it was for a pot shop. I am very much against this.

 

[smckean (Tosca)]

Full disclosure, I never used mj, but have been where it was being used enough to know that it made my head feel "funny, like heartbeat in my head" feeling. Not something I liked. It was enough to cause me to avoid being around it in the future.

[Meant as a slightly humorous parody]....Full disclosure, I have used mj. It makes my head feel mellow and "tuned in" (especially to experiences I normally have a prejudice toward....such as new music that I don't understand). It is something I like and will be around it in the future.

Seriously, much like alcohol, not everyone enjoys it. Some people never drink, and some people never tote....both for good reasons. I've often wondered why some like mj and others don't. The best I can come up with is that when stoned most enjoy the loss of inhibitions and experience it as freedom; others do not like the loss of control and typically experience it as mild paranoia.

I too don't particularly like comparisons among mj and cocaine, meth, and other stronger more additive drugs. The best comparison IMO is between mj and alcohol (altho over-indulgence of alcohol is more debilitating than over-indulgence of mj).

 

[hardee]

For me, the question was simple. "Do I want to be addicted to anything?" the answer was "No."

The reasoning we (humans) do not know to what extent we could become addicted to something. Some drugs are more addictive, true, but given each of our individual genetic makeup, one drink, one toke or one taste or one shot could be the one that sends us over the edge into addiction. In my Mom's family there was one uncle that that happened to. Genetically, the possibility is there, so I just prefer not to play with fire.

To each his/her own. I have made my decision, and my boat is drug and alcohol free.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[localboy]

An opposite perspective: I responded to a call of a male who had posted a video where he killed the family's black lab. Wife reported it. She stated he had been smoking dope, daily, for months and as a result had lost his mind: paranoid, delusional, combative.... She had escaped the home with her children out of fear he would kill them. She stated he "was never like this" until he started smoking dope. He had in fact stabbed the dog numerous times and only due to our work in apprehending him and searching the home was the dog saved. Via investigation it was discovered that he had also burned the family's pet rabbit ALIVE.

Just one example. I have myriad.

 

[colbysmith]

FWIW, for or against MJ, many jobs won't tolerate it, and as a youngster, you may be affecting possible job opportunities later in life. I've never partaken, but I've been around those that have. I've also been employed most my life in positions of great responsibility that also include random testing. As for medical vs. recreational, I just read with interest. My mind isn't made up. However, I also see a lot of problems with alcohol, and have no tolerance for drunken idiots. Guess that kind of hints where I stand on that. Whatever you do, be responsible for it and live with the consequences of your choices. (We've had several incidents in Madison involving LEO's shooting dead drunks and druggees. No sympathy from me. Act like an ass, go berserk, disobey orders or attack a cop, expect to be shot. And if you are a family member of the deceased, understand they made a foolish choice that got them killed. Not the cop protecting them self or the public around them!) And yes, I'll have a glass of wine or a beer now and then, but then again that's legal. And I think I do it responsibly. Ok, enough politics from me on this forum! So, short answer, no pot on my boat. :wink: Colby

 

[thataway]

Recognizing the severe problems of alcohol...I have seen acute psychosis in the ER in a person who smoked one joint. (in fairness I have seen psychosis from many drugs as an "adverse reaction".) Also psychosis can occur without any inciting material or incident.

There is a debate in the medical community if all people who become psychotic after use of marijuana (one dose or prolonged exposure) had the underlying psychotic tendency and would have become psychotic irregardless of smoking the pot.

 

[Foggy]

Bob, once Pandora's Box has been opened, it's impossible to contain the demons...

IMHO, those who use any recreational mind altering chemicals have a problem
dealing with reality. They also risk becoming victims of our contradictory laws
and endanger their (and others) health and safety.

Aye.
Grandma used to say, "Get high on life."

 

[ken35216]

Bob, once Pandora's Box has been opened, it's impossible to contain the demons...

IMHO, those who use any recreational mind altering chemicals have a problem
dealing with reality. They also risk becoming victims of our contradictory laws
and endanger their (and others) health and safety.

Aye.
Grandma used to say, "Get high on life."

People live longer that use mind altering drugs (alcohol included) in moderation. Mind altering drugs are usually taken while socializing and socializing makes you live longer and happier.

Cheers!
As Mark Twain used to say "be good and you will be lonesome"

 

[Foggy]

Ken, I'll agree with your above post and therefore change mine from

"any recreational mind altering chemicals"

to

"excessive recreational mind altering chemicals"

with the realization "smoking anything is still smoking" (the jury is in on that one)
and some recreational drugs tried just once cause addiction obviating choice
thereafter.

Any thoughts on how "users" help others in general or is their using merely self
satisfying indulgment?

Aye.

 

[BillE]

Foggy posted----"Any thoughts on how "users" help others in general or is their using merely self
satisfying indulgment?"

Which led me to wonder; why should someone getting intoxicated, on anything whatsoever, be concerned with "helping others"?
When one enjoys wine are they concerned with helping others? When I have a cocktail I must admit that my thoughts are not on helping anyone at that particular moment and I am indeed merely being self satisfyingly indulgent. And why the hell not?
For me, if someone is not bothering or endangering anyone else then I consider it none of my business. I believe that this world in general and this country in particular would be much better off if more people did the same. Live and let live allows peace among neighbors and fellow citizens. The desire to control every behavior with which one disagrees leads to endless civic strife, which is where we are today.

 

[smckean (Tosca)]

I am continually amazed that statements from those who consider pot dangerous, believing pot to be completely avoided as a matter of safety and health (physical and mental), can be re-written using the exact same words, except with the word "alcohol" substituted for word "pot"; and such a re-written statement would read just as well carrying the same weight and implications. And yet I see folks, including the vast majority of C-Brats, using alcohol all the time......and no one seems to worry about it in anywhere near the same way as they worry about pot use.

Don't misconstrue what I am saying here. I am comparing alcohol and pot as used under the same conditions: that is, mild use of alcohol compared to mild use of pot, heavy use of both, or excessive use of both. I've seen all of the above on boats both while anchored/docked, and while underway. I just find it puzzling that so many condemn the use of pot (even mild use), and yet hardly anyone says a word when alcohol is being used causally. (Clearly, everyone condemns heavy use of either when operating equipment and such.)

P.S. Recreational pot use is legal in my state of Washington.