Anchoring system advice needed

W

westward

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I'm looking for suggestions for putting together an anchor system. What type/size of anchor; size, length and composition of the rode/chain lead, and any other advice or suggestions. Sizing would be for a 22 Angler and our cruising grounds will be mainly Puget sound, in the San Juans, occasionally local lakes. Thanks in advance! Mike.
 
15lb Manson Supreme, 50 feet of 1/4 inch high test, 200-250 feet of 1/4 8-plait. Get Acco chain (or some other non-Chinese brand, where you know the galvanizing is good) and similarly high-quality nylon line. An electric windlass makes anchoring easy.

This setup has worked for me for many nights at anchor all over the PNW.
 
20dauntless":3tifvtv2 said:
15lb Manson Supreme, 50 feet of 1/4 inch high test, 200-250 feet of 1/4 8-plait. Get Acco chain (or some other non-Chinese brand, where you know the galvanizing is good) and similarly high-quality nylon line. An electric windlass makes anchoring easy.

This setup has worked for me for many nights at anchor all over the PNW.
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Ditto. I go with Sam. Pretty much the same set up as I presently have.

Martin.
 
Sam's suggestion is right on the mark. We have a delta in the same weight range, 35' of chain and 300' of 3 strand nylon. We cruise pretty far north and have never had a problem. A windlass is really worth the money in our deeper anchoring waters.
 
I haven't anchored too much with the C-Dory yet (but I have on other boats, so I'm tuned in to the importance of the ground tackle system), but I went with a variation of the "Sam system." I have a 15# Manson Supreme with 25' of ACCO 1/4" G4 (as opposed to his 50'), and then 200' of the Yale 1/2" Brait. The anchor is attached to the chain with a Crosby "red pin" galvanized shackle (so this is the weak link, but they don't make HT shackles small enough for 1/4" chain that I've ever been able to find), and the rope is attached to the chain with a rope-to-chain splice. I might go with 50' of chain for PNW waters.

For a secondary I have a ~10# Bruce clone, 20' of ACCO 1/4" high test chain, and around 250' of 1/2" three-strand nylon rope. On this I used a shackle at both ends of the chain so that I could remove the chain at times (beach anchoring, etc. when it's not necessary and more of a pain to carry/handle).

I think something like a Fortress might be more convenient to handle for the secondary anchor. As it is I have the anchor and rode stored in a duffle bag so they stay tidy. It was also handy to be able to carry the "works" in the bag either up to the bow or to the swim platform (or into the dinghy) for various scenarios.

Just took a Lewmar 700H windass out of the box... now to install it.
 
There is the "shore side" of the system. In the PNW it is not unusual to put the stern toward shore--rocks or trees. We have used mostly poly propylene line for this. 3/8" is strong enough. 300 feet or so on a reel. We also have a larger piece about 40 feet long of 5/8 to prevent chafe on trees, or couple of hanks of chain--10 to 15 feet long to go around rocks.

For lakes and many places with mud we have several extra Fortress/Guardian anchors--one Fortress 7# and 2 6# guardians, with 5/16" line--chain used for rocks used with these anchors.

We have not used the Boss, but the tests posted so far are excellent. I have considered buying a small one just to test. Our own tests how the Manson supreme to be a superior anchor to the Delta which we have been using. The Bruce (any new anchor you buy will be a knock off--be aware many of these are cast and mate in China…this has some risks of cast anchors breaking.
 
Sam's gear recommendation is great and he has the voyaging to show it works.

We use the 22 lb Claw with 45 ft 1/4 Hi Test Acco chain and 225 ft 1/2 inch 3 strand New England rope all brought aboard by a Lewmar H700 windlass.

The windlass is used several times a day many times as we potter about. We generally try to anchor 5 out of 7 nights when cruising and this gear has never moved. I'm a fan of figuring what is adequate and then go up a size.
George
 
We went with 300' of 1/2" 8 plait nylon, and 40 feet high test 1/4" chain from secosouth.com. They had the best price we could find on the net at the time for quality material, and I also didnt trust myself to splice it together (peace of mind). Also, I picked up a high quality french made stainless shackle to tie everything together.

Originally we had a 15 lb claw anchor with that setup, but in a strong blow I thought we drug a little bit at night. It was really hard to know if we moved or if it was just my imagination.

So we moved up to a 22 lb. Lewmar horizon claw. We have yet to move or sound off the anchor alarm with this setup and I doubt we ever will. That helps me sleep, as does pulling up that much damn anchor and chain by hand!
 
Just watched the video. Think I'll keep my 15lb Supreme. I did like the new set up the Boss has on the slider. We all keep our shackles wired up or use plastic ties don't we? It is a pain cutting the tie to move the shackle on the Supreme to the slider. The makers have overcome that little hitch.

Martin.
 
I'll offer my contrarian view for what its worth. I've owned and used 2 Delta Fast-Set anchors, a 22# on the TomCat and a 35# on the Krogen; over 5 years on each. I have never, ever had any slippage on either one. Being about $50 cheaper than the Manson, I'd get one again (15 lb.) and use 75" of 1/4" chain with 200' 1/2" rope. In most places, you'll be on an all chain rode. Use a snubber to take the strain off the Horizontal Windlass and rest easy.
 
Choosing your own ground tackle is like choosing your bride. Granted, history and experience are important in the decision but you really don't know how it's going to work out until, sometimes, much later.

As far as, "I have this.... and done this... and it works for me" reporting: this (unscientific methodology) still works in the bride analogy. What works for one may not work well for another. What "really works" is actually rather personal and depends on many factors.

FYI: The new Manson Boss anchor has been developed to not only "hold" well in various bottom conditions but conform to your bow anchor roller better than previous models. I'll be evaluating this fit this spring.

Aye.
 
Foggy":16aadqs2 said:
Choosing your own ground tackle is like choosing your bride. Granted, history and experience are important in the decision but you really don't know how it's going to work out until, sometimes, much later.

As far as, "I have this.... and done this... and it works for me" reporting: this (unscientific methodology) still works in the bride analogy. What works for one may not work well for another. What "really works" is actually rather personal and depends on many factors.

FYI: The new Manson Boss anchor has been developed to not only "hold" well in various bottom conditions but conform to your bow anchor roller better than previous models. I'll be evaluating this fit this spring.

Aye.
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My opinion differs slightly, but isn't that what discussions are all about? When I was looking for a better anchor setup than the one that came with the boat when I purchased her, I asked more experienced boaters than myself. I talked to Sam (Retriever) on this forum as he has lots of experience in the PNW, having cruised to Alaska and circumnavigated Vancouver Island mostly single-handed. Also because of his youthful age, he has far more brain cells than I. He was very happy with the Manson Supreme and high test chain. So I followed suit and will admit it is the best anchor set-up I have ever used. The Manson self sets, don't even have to back up on it, and has never dragged an inch. I do not have a windlass but find the 15lb MS and 35' HT chain and 1/2" rode easy to recover by hand.

Martin.
 
I looked at the anchors on the cruising boats in Marathon Harbor the last couple of days. Perhaps surprising is still the popularity of the CQR. We used the CQR on our Cal 46 almost exclusively for 4 summers--full time April to Oct going Sequim to AK and Back, including circumnavigation of Vancouver Island. Anchored about 90% of the time- Then over another year where we never went to a dock down the coast and thru the Canal to Florida. The only time we drug was one afternoon where we anchored in "ball bearing rocks" (layers of 2 to 3" diameter round stones)--and that represents over 1000 nights.

In our 4 year European trip, with a larger boat--but again the CQR as the primary, we only drug several nights: one in deep soft mud, another place with the ball bearing rocks, and heavy grass (where we had a specific fisherman anchor built). In conditions in the S. Pacific, Caribbean, Central and South America, we never drug.

If you anchor enough times, and in variety of conditions you will drag at some point. In my opinion the Delta is better than the CQR, and the Manson Supreme/Boss is better than the Delta.

The reality is that any good anchor, well set will work 98% of the time. It is that other 1% to 2% when that primary anchor will not hold, that you need the better alternative for that particular bottom. The most common secondary anchor we see is the Fortress or Danforth High Test--again I have to emphasize to avoid knock offs.

PaulNBriannaLynn what French made SS shackle did you buy? What is the safe working load and yield load? As Sunbeam pointed out, the Shackle is the weakest link (although it is rare that the C Dory will get into conditions where a good shackle will be stressed)
 
thataway":3fwwj5g2 said:
I looked at the anchors on the cruising boats in Marathon Harbor the last couple of days. Perhaps surprising is still the popularity of the CQR.
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Hi Bob,

I too checked out all the anchors in my local marina before purchasing my Manson. The plough type anchor seemed to be in the majority, especially with the larger boats. For the smaller boats, the Danforth was well represented. Then I figured that 90% of these boats never leave the marina anyway, and they still have the original anchor that came with the boat 30 or 40 years ago. Mansons, Deltas, etc, were not available back then, technology has since come a long way.

Martin.
 
Chalk up another "CQR" on the bow :D I cruised on two different boats, and both had CQR's for the main bower. Granted, this was ten to fifteen years ago, and the new crop of "modern" anchors was just getting going. I guess the main reason for sticking with them is that one, they were already on the boat; and two, we never dragged in hundreds of nights of anchoring. Once you develop that "history" with an anchor I think you grow to appreciate it. On the other hand, if we had dragged a few times, I'm sure anchor shopping would have moved to the top of the list!

But also like you say, I think a lot depends on the ground tackle system as a whole. On those boats I had all-chain rode, very long snubber, etc. -- so the anchor had a lot of help from the rest of the system. And also like you say, technique plays a part. We took our anchoring seriously and so put a lot of stock into where exactly to anchor and how to deploy and set it. Spending some time in the tropics is fun for really being able to see how the anchor sets and acts (because the water is so clear and relatively shallow).

I find the C-Dory to be ... well not a whole new ball game maybe, but certainly a different inning. I can't support the same ground tackle (weight/space), and too, the shape of the boat means different spots are available (shallower, etc.). Plus it acts differently.

So far I've only anchored around 30 nights on the C-Dory, and maybe six of those were "windy" ones. In most of those cases I had two anchors out (in a "V"), but not (mostly) for holding; rather it was to check the swing (now that is very different on the C-Dory - it's like anchoring a leaf!). I was only "nervous" one night, on which there was chop coming into the anchorage (the wind was veering through the night [yes of course it was at night!], so it was hard to find a truly all-weather anchorage) and so the boat was hobby-horsing a bit (plus sailing). The bouncing scares me more than wind in terms of loosening the anchor (plus chafe potential). Thankfully all went well, and there was neither dragging nor chafe - but I did worry about it. But, it was good to get some experience with various conditions.

BTW, I wouldn't even consider using that "slot" on the Manson Supreme for overnight or unattended anchoring. Maybe that's just due to the majority of my anchoring experience being on different boats, but it gives me the creeps! I just use the normal hole for the shackle and ignore the slot.
 
Sunbeam":37oyuol0 said:
BTW, I wouldn't even consider using that "slot" on the Manson Supreme for overnight or unattended anchoring. Maybe that's just due to the majority of my anchoring experience being on different boats, but it gives me the creeps! I just use the normal hole for the shackle and ignore the slot.
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Got that right Sunbeam. The thought scares me too. No way would I use the slot and leave the boat or go to bed at night. Just use the normal hole.

Martin.
 
Just to add something (that is probably obvious) to my previous reply. I suppose a big part of why larger boats still tend to have CQR's is the price of replacing them in the larger sizes. Combine the cost with the fact (presumably) that the CQR's (or other older style) have worked fine, and I can see that motivation to change would be low.

I did spend some time on a 64' ketch that had just replaced their CQR with a *huge* Rocna (same basic shape as Supreme). I think it was 125# or maybe a bit more. I still remember the first time we anchored with it. I was in the bunk on my off-watch. Near the end of my sleep time, so fairly groggy but basically awake. I heard the chain rattle out and sort of waited for the familiar sounds and feel of the rest of the anchoring routine. Sure enough, after a bit I heard the engines go into reverse to back down on the anchor. We no sooner started moving when "Errrrrrt!" we stopped short, just as if we had hit a wall. It was weird! No smooth transition... just "Errrrrt!" instant stop! As I found out on subsequent stops, that's just how it set. Interesting.
 
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