Anchor choice

D

Dubuque chad

New member
A couple of questions. I am replacing a anchor rode and chain on a 25. She has a lewmar 700. The previous anchor was a delta wing anchor. It didn't seem to hold well in the mud, I'm thinking of moving to a claw anchor but I am conserved about its ability to self launch as the geometry looks different.
Any opinions?
 
How much does it weigh? I have a 21 lb Lewmar Claw anchor that I doubt I'll use. It came with the boat when I bought it earlier this year, and I replaced that anchor with a 14 lb Delta. If yours is the next size bigger, I'll trade you the Claw for the Delta. I think the Claw will work on the same roller system as the Delta. Colby
 
Anchoring considerations:
1. What are the typical bottoms?
2. What are the typical holding considerations, lunch, overnight, quiet water, river current -unidirectional or tidal - bidirectional?
3. Hand launch or windlass?

Over several types of anchors, and many years, I have settled on a spade type, (where the anchor flat is concave shaped -- dish shaped) rather than a plow type, which apears to also be called a "wing" although I have not heard that tearm used before. The concave surface of the spade, lifts and compacts the substrate in front of it, making it harder, firmer, and increasing the difficulty of the anchor to move in the substrate, what ever it is.

I switched from a Delta "plow (or wing according to this article*) to a Rocna 6 and have had excellent holding in rocky, muddy, clayish and mixed shell-gravel bottoms for the last four years. NO drag, not one time and I have had a couple of pretty windy (15 to 25 knot) anchorages. That is more than I can say for the Delta and it sets better than my Bruce ever did.

Highly recommend the Rocna or if it works with your launcher, a Vulcan. Great spade physics.

https://www.usharbors.com/2020/01/boati ... chor-type/

A good article, EXCEPT they include the spade anchors in the plow catagory and call them a new generation with as roll bar. The Rocna is also exclaimed as the "highest holding power". There is a huge difference in the physics of a plow and a spade.

AS to the rode, on a 25, I would consider at least a 50 feet lenght of chain, or more, but that would be my minimum.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

0_God_s_Pocket_Anchorage.thumb.jpg
 
Rocna or Manson Supreme is my 5 cents worth. Manson is cheaper. I have never had or needed self-launching but the Rocna would be best IMO.

As for chain (high test) I agree with Harvey, 50ft minimum.

Martin.
 
I agree that the Valcun, Ronca or Manson Supreme are probably some of the best anchors. If you want the best anchor for mud--the Danforth High Test or Fortress. The Fortress has 2 positions: mud and soft mud. Another anchor not usually mentioned is the Super Max. I don't know if one would fit on the pulpit of the C Dory, without modification.

The "Claw = Bruce" are very popular in the PNW. It would not be my first choice of an anchor for mud or sand.

I carry a 22# Delta on my C Dory 25. I have an 11X fortress on the bow also. I have several 6/7X Fortress/Guardian anchors for stern or kedge. If I were to buy another anchor it would be the 20# Vulcan.

When I was long distance cruising I had 8 anchors. 2 Large 60 and 70# CQR Plows, 4 Danforth all High Tensile (70#, 40#, 20# and 12#). Two Fishermen--one 70# and the other 150#, with 1/2' chain and 1" rope....Today we have the second and 3rd generation anchors--such as Mantus, Spade, Vulcan, Ronca, Manson Supreme. The Boss was a great anchor--but for some reason discontinued.
 
You are correct Bob. There are a lot of Bruce anchors in the PNW. Also a lot of boats I have seen in the marinas with a Bruce that never leave the marina, or do short hops with no anchoring involved. With over 30 years in the same marina, I know a lot of guys (and gals) who use their boats regularly. None that I can think of use a Bruce! Over the years I have bought 3 boats that came with a Bruce (including Nomad), it is the first item I remove from the boat.

Martin.
 
Dubuque chad":tre9sl4x said:
A couple of questions. I am replacing a anchor rode and chain on a 25. She has a lewmar 700. The previous anchor was a delta wing anchor. It didn't seem to hold well in the mud, I'm thinking of moving to a claw anchor but I am conserved about its ability to self launch as the geometry looks different.
Any opinions?
Click to expand...

22# Lewmar Claw works for me in all bottoms I have tried it in, sand, mud, gravel, rocks, what ever, so far? I switched to 100' of chain also a few years back. In my experience the amount of chain is as important if not more important than anchor type.
YMMV :thup
 
Where is everyone buying their chain? I'm currently running 20 foot of chain ahead of 300 feet of 8 plait rode. I'd like to switch to 50-100 feet of chain with 200 feet of rode. Colby
 
Oh, goody! Another anchor discussion. And I'll put my 2 cents in. Just my opinion.

We've traveled through the PNW many times, from the top of Vancouver Isle to the bottom of Puget Sound. I've used a Bruce for anchoring there in Journey On, a 25. I have found that the PNW as a lot of mud and the Bruce does well in mud with its claw shape. And it always launches without any help. For the PNW, it's the best.

If you have mud, which doesn't have much cohesiveness, a Manson/ blade type of anchor pulls right through the mud. I have a Manson and I feel it's not for mud. And a plow is a plow, designed to move soil; that was my CQR.

That said, when I anchor in SoCal I have to anchor in seaweed and rocks. For that, I use a Danforth which has sharp points and will penetrate the grass. I will interchange the Danforth with the Manson depending on my mood.

Any anchor will set and hold in sand. All the tests are in sand because sand is kind to anchors. Florida has a lot of sand.

So, Bruce north and Danforth south.

Boris
 
I agree with the plow plowing in mud, but not in my experience the Manson or especially my Manson Boss. The reason I switched to the Manson Supreme & then Boss was due to my 22 Lb claw not holding in soft mud & some difficulty getting a set in other bottom types other then the typical PNW shell/small rock/hard mud combo. The Boss & supreme set much easier in all bottom types then the claw & would think the other similar anchors like them would do the same. I too sang the praises of the Claw until making the switch to the Manson type. The reason I made the change up was due to trying to anchor in the soft mud of Gut Bay Alaska & after many attempts not being able to get a set with the claw. In very shallow clear water I could see why it wouldn’t set. The wide set claw would scoop up the mud in the claw, then with no contact point to dig deeper just skate across the mud bottom surface. On a later cruise in the same place with the Manson Boss it would instantly dig in, bury & hold.

I prefer a large heavier anchor then most would consider. My present set up, which has worked extremely well for us through our last 3 SE Alaska cruises combines a Lewmar 700H windless with wireless remote, 25 lb Manson Boss anchor, Mantus anchor swivel, 50 feet 1/4 inch high test ACCO chain & 250 feet of 1/2 inch 8 brait rode. The back up is a 15 lb Mantus Supreme with 25 feet of 1/4 inch ACCO chain. With 5 extended Alaska cruises made with the claw anchor & the last 3 with the Manson type, perhaps a evaluation worth considering.

Jay
 
Any anchor will set and hold in sand.
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This is where I disagree with the Bruce. We had rescued a fellow who had been shipwrecked on the coast of Mexico (Long story), but he was able to bring high end dive gear, a 2 hp Honda, and a a 22 Lb Bruce (which had drug and allowed his boat to be caught in the surf in relatively calm wind conditions.). We dropped him off in Costa Rica as he flew to the Caribbean to teach sailing at one of the schools...!!! We were to give the gear to a friend of his who would bring it to the Caribbean in a 27 foot boat he was planing to sail there the next year.

We were being pushed agains a small pier with some good beam winds in Roatan Honduras. So I wanted to put out a spring anchor. This would be a great time to try out this 22# genuine Bruce. I put it out 10 times up to a 10 to 1 scope and winched it directly back to the boat each time. This was fine coral sand. I then took out my "lunch hook" a Danforth 12# HT which was a very well proven anchor.
On the first set, I winched the 65,000# boat off the pier and it held for the next 5 days, until we departed. I had also used the same 12# HT Danforth to winch the boat off several piers in up to 50 knots beam wind...

Of course the fellow we rescued's friend didn't have room for any of the gear on his boat, so it was all sold at "Sailor Man" a consignment shop in Ft Lauderdale.

I'm currently running 20 foot of chain ahead of 300 feet of 8 plait rode. I'd like to switch to 50-100 feet of chain with 200 feet of rode.
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Colby, unless I was planing a lot of boating in AK or places with high tides, I would not go with the 100' of chain. If I was doing AK, then I would stick with the 300' 8 plait. Why do you want to decrease the rode?

Colby, if you do go with more chain, be sure and use American Made hot dip galvanized chain. ACCO is American made: West Marine price is $4.49 a foot, Defender is $2.41 a foot! You may find the cheapest price at SECO South Rigging in Largo, FL. They sell online. They advertise "Peerless Chain". Peerless Chain says they have 3 manufacturing facilities, but decline to state what country they are located in. Your call.. I know of people who have used the Peerless chain. I also have seen some Chinese made chain, "Grade 40 HT" which has broken....
 
I also noticed on my first Alaska trips & even before we started doing our SE Alaska cruises, the fishing boats all primarily used Claw, Navy & Danforth anchors, which led me to think the Claw for our use would be good. Later it has occurred to me these style anchors in the heavy versions with equally heavy chains do work well & still do with the cost of replacement to better present types not worth the expense to the fishermen. In our case where the lighter anchors are so much less expensive & the newer types really more effective, the upgrade like most other improvements made in boating worth the expense of upgrading.

Jay
 
World wide probably the most common fishing boat anchor is a variant of the Northhill Pattern--problem is that these and anchor do not sit well on a C Dory bow pulpit.

I reluctantly sold my folding Stanless Steel WWII Northill used on the PBY's...The Northill Pattern is often welded up by local machine shops.
 
Check out Secco South. We bought a 250' 8 plait rode spliced with 40' of chain from them and it was very reasonable comparatively.

I'll probably get flamed for this but I happen to like the claw anchor for what we do. We've run a 22 lb lewmar bruce copy on both of our c-dory's. It's predictable and seems to set easily enough. I've trusted it with my family many nights, and has never let me down in sand and muddy conditions that we're accustomed to. Yes I've seen the youtube videos and read the marketing from manson and rocna and all the others. But my anchor was fifty bucks! If it gets hung up and I have to leave it, its not the end of the world. The main thing is I trust it and know how to set it quickly.
 
Paul, no flame coming from me. It has worked well for a lot of folks including me. In your post you brought up what is the best reason for continuing or starting out with the claw & that’s simply the cost to purchase, replace or in my past case’s, availability to purchase a decent anchor quickly in areas where better choices are not available. During our first 5 SE Alaska cruises, twice, I lost my then 22 lb Lewmar Claws & readily found cheap replacements. First time in Petersburg & the 2nd in Haines, Alaska. The Lewmar claw is a good cheap anchor for the PNW & seems good for you in Florida too, however I’ve found the improvements made in my present anchor choice, well worth the increase in price to me & hoping the experience I’ve gained from previous anchor losses, lower the chance of losing the present more expensive one.

Jay
 
The test of an anchor is how well it holds under load--lets say 50 knots of wind. Some will say "I would never anchor where there might be 50 knots of wind". You may roll the dice and win every time....or not. There is a reason I carry at least 2 good anchors.

I had to "cut and run" one night, to save the boat. There are going to be "iffy" holding conditions if you cruise enough. I have anchors hold in over 90 knots of wind--no fun, but doable.
 
Colby, unless I was planing a lot of boating in AK or places with high tides, I would not go with the 100' of chain. If I was doing AK, then I would stick with the 300' 8 plait. Why do you want to decrease the rode?
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Hi Bob,
First, the setup I had with Midnight Flyer (same setup I have now, as it's the same rode. I swapped it out...) when I went to Alaska last year was the Delta with 20' chain and the 300' of rode. I had no problems anchoring. Several nights with high tidal currents, and some wind. I have anchored in some high winds around here (35 mph) again with no problems. I'm using a 14 lb Delta. I wouldn't mind going up to a 22 lb if someone has one they'd like to swap for my 22 lb Lewmar Claw. But the 14 lb has worked fine on the new to me 25 this past year. With that....

The only reason I'm really looking at more chain is for more weight on the bow of the boat, and perhaps more robust anchoring? The only thing I don't like about the chain is it is noisy lowering and raising. My 8 plait is several years old now, and showing wear. I did just turn it around, but now a bit nervous about my splice between it and the chain. How do you know if you did it right and it will hold? I did just hook it up between a lightpole and my Kubota tractor and gave some really good tugs on it.
I should probably just keep what I have since it has worked well for me. But in a few more years I suspect it will be time to replace the rode, and not sure what I'll go with. The 1/2" 8 plait seems to do ok thru the Lewmar 700 windlass, other than it was slipping at the chain splice earlier due to the wear. Hopefully with the turning of the rode and new splice, it'll run thru the windlass fine. Colby
 
The test of an anchor is how well it holds under load--lets say 50 knots of wind. Some will say "I would never anchor where there might be 50 knots of wind". You may roll the dice and win every time....or not.
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I'm one of those that say I would never anchor where there might be 50 kts of wind. That's almost 60mph winds. And I can guarantee if the wind is howling that bad I won't be sleeping anyway. :( But I think it's reasonable to have ground gear that will take a good set and hold in 20-30 kt winds. Colby
 
I boat along the East Coast, from Maine/Canada to Key West and the Dry Torguas, as well as the Chesapeake Bay and it’s tributaries, and typically anchor whenever possible. I don’t ask much of an anchor – just that it set and reset quickly, and hold in stout winds and currents. Which type might be best in a hurricane isn’t a factor, because I don’t anchor anywhere near hurricanes. When they’re coming, I’m thinking trailers and insurance, not anchors. Here are my observations and conclusions, for whatever they might be worth.

Danforth: Worked well on clay, sand, mud, and other generally soft bottoms where the anchor could get a good bite, and evenly load the flukes. However, would not set through deep grasses, such as those encountered in the Key West anchorage, and didn’t survive coral and other hard rocks where the loading on the anchor is at the tip, rather than along the entire fluke. With tip loading, and a good blow, the tip bends back on itself and the anchor is released, and will not reset. I still carry a Danforth, but only use it as a second anchor, generally deployed from the stern to keep the bow pointed into the weather, and moderate the tendency to hunt.

Delta: Went to this after the Danforth, and quickly decided it wasn’t going to work for me. Might have gotten a different result had I added a lot more chain than 20 ft. on ½ line, but don’t really think so. This anchor simply would not set on hard packed bottoms, be they clay or gravel, no matter how much rode was deployed. The reason for this became fairly obvious when I put the anchor down on a flat surface (concrete driveway), spooled out some rode, held it at the height of the roller above the waterline, and gave a little tug. The tip of the anchor is pulled away from the bottom, as the mass of the anchor skips nicely along, without leaving so much as a scratch. The Delta had particular difficulty on hard bottoms in narrow channels where you simply couldn’t let out enough scope to compensate for the fact that the force you’re attempting to apply to get the anchor to set was also lifting the tip off the bottom, and preventing it from digging in. I ended up using it as the proverbial paperweight, and then donated it to the Hontoon auction.

Bruce/Claw: I’ve used the Claw for years, and it sets on all bottoms, first time, every time, and holds and resets after any swinging because of tidal or strong wind shifts. It works well with as little as 20 ft. of chain on ½ in. line, although I’ve now gone to much longer chain to get more weight in the bow and more reliable spooling on and off the gypsy of the Lewmar 700. For me, given the locations and conditions in which I boat, it’s the best choice. It’s also one of the least expensive anchors, and depending on your wallet and disposition, replacement cost can cross your mind when you’re having to put a blade to the line and say “goodby” to hopelessly fouled ground tackle.
 
I did just turn it around, but now a bit nervous about my splice between it and the chain. How do you know if you did it right and it will hold? I did just hook it up between a lightpole and my Kubota tractor and gave some really good tugs on it.
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That is the way to proof any splice. I use the truck and a tree. You put a heck of a load on it.

You say you would never anchor where there might be 50 knots. I have seen 50 knot at Powell, and in SE AK.....you never know when it's going to hit.

I think the 14# delta is light for the C dory 25. Yes, I know that is the "recommended size for 20' to 32' for "normal conditions"--I think for Delta the was up to 30 knots. A prudent cruiser sizes one up for "potential gales"--and 2 sizes up for Hurricane force winds. Problem is I have had to anchor in hurricane force winds in S. Calif. Santa Ana Conditions at Two Harbors. 90 knots --sea planes (Grumman Goose) going back ward once airborne. (Take off speed 65 knots). As soon as off the water the darn planes started to go backward....ref the land). That particular day it was the only way to get to and from Catalina, commercially. I choose to sail my boat home. Once clear of the funnel effect the wind in the Chanel was in the 40 to 50 knots...not a pleasant trip! Fortunately I didn't have do go directly into it.

As for the rode, keep ending for end, and take a few feet off each time. Once you have done the good splice--you are good to go. The next will be easier.
 
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