An Inquiry into cbrat attitudes towards fuel prices...

High fuel prices is what we get for inviting China to the party. When our corporations moved their factories to China for cheaper labor there was a short lived upswing in our purchasing power for the cheaper consumer goods. Now with China as the only manufacturer of many consumer goods they have raised the price (we educated them in our schools about supply and demand) and we no longer get the cheap consumer goods. Not only that, all those Chinese managers and workers are flush with cash and are competing with Americans for resources (gas) because they want to live the good life we have had for years. It going to get worse because there is a whole bunch more of them than us. The true irony of this is now the conservative free market American business men, (small business such as retailers), are going to feel the pinch like the American worker because American workers no longer have a job or income to buy all the cars, fuel, and TVs that the conservative businessmen are so fond of peddling. It's time to think of Americans first. The way out of the recession is JOBS for Americans. The rest of the world doesn't give a rip about us. Matter of fact they hate us.
Forrest
 
forrest":2d7shnc6 said:
High fuel prices is what we get for inviting China to the party. When our corporations moved their factories to China for cheaper labor there was a short lived upswing in our purchasing power for the cheaper consumer goods. Now with China as the only manufacturer of many consumer goods they have raised the price (we educated them in our schools about supply and demand) and we no longer get the cheap consumer goods. Not only that, all those Chinese managers and workers are flush with cash and are competing with Americans for resources (gas) because they want to live the good life we have had for years. It going to get worse because there is a whole bunch more of them than us. The true irony of this is now the conservative free market American business men, (small business such as retailers), are going to feel the pinch like the American worker because American workers no longer have a job or income to buy all the cars, fuel, and TVs that the conservative businessmen are so fond of peddling. It's time to think of Americans first. The way out of the recession is JOBS for Americans. The rest of the world doesn't give a rip about us. Matter of fact they hate us.
Forrest
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:star :star :star :star :star

5 STAR POST!

THANK YOU!!!

JOE. :teeth :thup
 
I have to say I don't worry too much about the price of fuel. Not because I don't care, but because I can't control it. Let's face it, owning a boat whether a Nordhaven or a C-Dory is still a choice for most of us, not a requirement.

I'm retiring March 1st (HOORAY) so being able to use my boat is important. If/as the price of fuel rises, I'll probably adjust my boating but I won't give it up. If it gets high enough to affect me, it will be affecting a lot of other things and that old law of supply and demand will eventually moderate the price.

In the meantime as I sit here in 6 degree weather with 8 inches of ice in the channel in back of my house and by my boat docks, I can't wait to launch the Get~Aweigh and get away!
 
It always amazes me how some people will pay 1.50 for a bottle of water, $30.00 or more for a smidgeon of ink jet printer ink, 6.00 for a six pack of beer, $8.00 mixed drink at a bar, $100 dollar diner for two and still bitch about the price of gasoline. Gas is currently here 3.09 to 3.15 per gallon in the Philadelphia area. My solution to this issue is boat a little slower, anchor out more, fish a little smarter. I intend to do my best at savoring what’s left of my life. I gonna start selling some of my possessions so I can afford more fuel for the boat. Remember it’s not a boat it’s a lifestyle. This year we travel and boat more than ever. Our time is now.
D.D.
 
This subject has been on the horizon for a long time, and most of us have quietly thought about how we'd react. (If you haven't thought about it - you need-to.)

I can't honestly say what price would drive me out of recreational boating. As Jim said, it's still cheaper than therapy or jail(bail).

The good news is our vessels are trailerable, so we can haul them virtually anywhere we choose. The bad news is we require more of the same $10/gallon gasoline getting to the launch ramp! In fact, we may very well spend vastly more gettingto the launch ramp (ie. Prince Rupert) than we spend while on the water. I'm still planning another Inside Passage trip this summer, and this subject comes at a particularly pertinent time.

All the methods of stretching-the-mileage and reducing costs are relevant and deserve close attention. Who knows - as Larry said, in a few years we may see C-Dory's with a full solar array and twin trolling motors! ...but we'll find a way to get our cruising 'fix.

I've learned that anchoring-out in a quiet cove is Free (once you get there)! The only thing better than a week on Lake Powell is two weeks on Lake Powell, and once you're comfortably anchored someplace, you don't really have to burn much fuel. I've learned that a carefully refined "daily schedule" including morningcoffee/reading/lunch/nap/kayaking/hiking/nap/happyhour/dinner/reading/bedtime can be rewarding. I do need to add a couple items to the daily schedule (learn-to-fish and playing on the laptop), but it'll come.

For the September 2010 CBGT at Powell I burned 63 gallons of boat gas over that two week period. Even at $10/gallon that's a Buy. ...heck, I spent nearly $30 just on ice!

From another perspective - given Pat&Patty's recent experiences, it would be interesting to get their idea of when boating might become too expensive for them.

Interesting topic, let's hear More!

Best,
Casey













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Great post, Forrest!! I agree 100%.

As to spending it "now"; some of us are NOT retired, so we still have a period of life left and need to budget/save etc. for this. We need to have enough money "left over" to complete our lives (as we all do). What does the future hold? I have no idea. But there are certain facts that make those of us at the end of the baby-boomer generation concerned. Medical coverage? Social "Security"? Whoo...makes my head spin.

I have a son, two grandkids, aging in-laws and even a wife younger than me ( :thup )etc. I don't intend to "spend it all" and leave nothing behind. To do so would be selfish IMHO. So, we save; but we live too. Right now, we are fortunate enough that we can afford the boat, the truck, the fuel...we just lack the time. The time we do use the boat we thoroughly enjoy so it's NOT going away anytime soon.

What's the magic number for fuel for us? I have no idea. But when diesel got up to $4.50/gallon here in '08 I CRINGED every time I filled the F250. It's up to nearly $4 now here already :x (thanks to those geniuses in Olympia! :evil: ) and it's not even summer. It's gonna be a rough one I'm afraid...

Side note: Anyone hear anything about that synthetic fuel [discussed here in that thread] in the "mainstream media"? I sure haven't... :?
 
Well, I have been considering smaller twins for the 25....

Our issue like localboy is more about time than anything. We like to get out constantly but if fuel goes way up there is one positive I see.

With so few boaters out and about, the shorter more economical trips will be quieter, less crowded, and more enjoyable so I guess we would likely stick with it.

The tinkerer in me has already been thinking and designing electric drive options so you can count us in on that evolution. Heck, I just test fit an electric to the transom of my boat last night.
 
This might be a healthy way to look at the issue.
breausaw wrote:
Live for today, not for tomorrow. Why waste time speculating on things that may or may not happen; life is just too short.
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I sure hope that we have not lost sight of one of the biggest reasons why we own and love our C-dorys. Fuel efficiency.
Consider the plight of the poor/rich sob's with gas guzzling deep vee's. They will be scuttling their boats and be looking for c-dorys!! No problem for us. C-dorys will be some of the last recreational vessels running.

When gas gets to $50.00 a gallon I'll park her in the woods and use her for a camper! OR try something heretofore not discussed: rigging her for sail. While not the ideal platform for a sailboat I'll bet the cbrats could and would devise any number of ways to use wind to move these boats around. I can see the thread already "Wind power for your C-dory"!!!!!!!

My $0.02.

Dan
 
Milesand Miles, As several have pointed out, you have the choice to use your C Dory as economically as the person who owns the sailboat. All you have to do is keep the speed down--and for your boat that will be 5 to 6 knots (sailboat speed). The reality is that most sailboats power at least 50% of the time when cruising. You have the all weather protection and the room that a much larger sailboat has. So stick with the C Dory.
The only exception is if you just love to sail. I spent most of my life sailing--and well over 200,000 miles at mostly under 8 knots...I still love it. But reality is I am too old and too many health problems. We did cringe a little when we paid $6.00 a gallon for fuel in the Broughtons a few years ago (found another camp with cheaper fuel shortly)--but it didn't stop us. As also pointed out the average C Dory is used less than 200 hours a year--and that will mean somewhere less than 500 gallons of fuel, depending on speed.
 
I'm glad I finally shared my thoughts with you all :)

Cruising speed: 95% of the San Juan trip a few weeks ago was spent at 6-7 knots. After getting turned around in a cove and REALLY wanting some good coffee in Friday Harbor, I opened her up to 25 knots. For the most part I've always been a slow poke...an ex-girlfriend called me "life in the slow lane" :)

Sail: I've actually thought about this one. One of the Willards has a small sail up top in case the engines die out at sea. When that day comes, our boats might be more of an "escape" than we realize.

Boomers: I'm the off-spring of them, and convinced we're general of a difference species all together. My sailboat friend here in Duluth is a boomer and often proclaims with great pride (and zero guilt) "I'm leaving nothing to my children" Is this some kind of baby-boomer birth right? :)

How I work it is by having a "fun-fund" which can be applied to all sorts of activities. If the fund reaches the level of both tanks full plus the tacoma, everything else is easily budgeted. Food is easy, house is paid for, electric bill averages $15 bucks a month, etc. etc.

I think much of my hyper-attention toward conservation is related to my fairly bleak outlook on the rapidly changing ways of the world. Yes China recently doubled the population of the planet overnight (by opening up their markets/labor) but I don't blame them for wanting their turn at a good life (if they only knew what they were getting into) I'm more concerned with the threat from within, lets just say where "security" is going in this country, Orwell was an optimist. :(

In the short term...I can't wait for my first Superior-land summer with a C-Dory

Brenton
 
WORLD'S SMALLEST PETROL ENGINE

SCIENTISTS have built the smallest petrol engine, tiny enough to power a WATCH. The mini-motor, which runs for two years on a single squirt of lighter fuel, is set to revolutionize world technology. It produces 700 times more energy than a conventional battery despite being less than a centimetre long not even half an inch.

It could be used to operate laptops and mobile phones for months doing away with the need for recharging. Experts believe it could be phasing out batteries in such items within just six years.

The engine, minute enough to be balanced on a fingertip, has been produced by engineers at the University of Birmingham . Dr Kyle Jiang, lead investigator from the Department of Mechanical Engineering, said: “We are looking at an industrial revolution happening in peoples’ pockets. The breakthrough is an enormous step forward. Devices which need re- charging or new batteries are a problem but in six years will be a thing of the past.”

Other applications for the engine could include medical and military uses, such as running heart pacemakers or mini reconnaissance robots.

At present, charging an ordinary battery to deliver one unit of energy involves putting 2,000 units into it. The little engine, because energy is produced locally, is far more effective.

One of the main problems faced by engineers who have tried to produce micro motors in the past has been the levels of heat produced. The engines got so hot they burned themselves out and could not be re-used. The Birmingham team overcame this by using heat-resistant materials such as ceramic and silicon carbide. Professor Graham Davies, head of the university’s engineering school, said: “we've brought together all the engineering disciplines, materials, chemical engineering, civil engineering, and mechanical engineering. What better place to have the second industrial revolution in nano-technology than where the first took place, in the heart of the West Midlands.


:D :D :D
 
If you boat in Canada, you've already had to answer the question :sad
DSCN0905.sized.jpg

This was in Barkley Sound. Fuel amounted to a minor expense overall. We slow to 7kts on one engine and get 4-5 mpg. For the enjoyment of cruising in this area, it's well worth it.
 
During the last runup in fuel prices this came up. I think my response then was to stay longer because the cost per day drops. With internet and phone access I can do a lot of my essential job sitting on the boat. The company VP (a TomCat Owner) and I are cultivating a chain of access points we can use to extend some weekends from Thursday to Monday.

I really don't think there is a price. I think there is a distance be that as far as the tide will take me or as far as my wife and I can go on the last $5. That is probably the sign of an addict.

Tom
 
For what it is worth Kippllinger Letter predicted that oil will remain from $85 to $95 a barrel during the next 6 to 8 months. That Egypt alone will not significantly raise the cost of fuel. Only if Saudi Arabia is involved, will there be significant increases.

So go enjoy the boats!
 
This poor sob with a heavy deep-V has learned to travel slow and pleasantly - 6.5 knots 90-95% of the time. Even in 08 when diesel averaged $5/gallon, we poked around SE Alaska for 2+ months for only $40/day in fuel. Worth it.

It was rather costly to tow to Prince Rupert, however - another $2K. Guess we should have stayed out longer.
 
Chuck,
I married well, at least for the first 42 years. I can't remember when the last time I bought a six pack, but I'm guessing St. Paulie Girl or Amstel Light must be getting close to six bucks a sixpack. At my age if I drink more than a couple beers I'd have to chain myself to a urinal.
After putting the kids thru college and a recent wedding for our only daughter, that gas doesn't look so bad. I mean considering the peacefulness of it all. In just about a month we leave for the Florida Keys for a month. Just my wife and our dog. At 14 or 15 mpg I guess the truck is going to burn up 500 dollars plus of diesel fuel round trip. Not much I can do about it. The water is shadow down there so I'll just limp along at under ten knots looking for the next place to drop the hook so we can take another swim. I'm taking my boat trailer back to it's daddy In Vero Beach Florida to get the brakes changed over from surge to electric over hydraulic for our trip out west in August. Cue the song by Sonny and Cher "The Beat Goes On" :smiled
D.D.
 
One of the reasons for the extra water tank I'm adding is to be able to stay longer on the hook. Every night away from the marina is another $20-$25 in your pocket for fuel. We won't be using marinas nearly as much this Summer.

Roger
 
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