America's Cup
- Thread starter thataway
- Start date
Will renew my bet from earlier:
"I'm picking New Zealand in the Louis Vuiton Finals next week, and think the America's cup between Emirates New Zealand (Dean Barker) and Oracle USA (probably Jimmy Spithill) will be the match races of the decacde!"
Hold on tight, the big show hasn't begun yet! :lol:
Joe. :teeth :thup
"I'm picking New Zealand in the Louis Vuiton Finals next week, and think the America's cup between Emirates New Zealand (Dean Barker) and Oracle USA (probably Jimmy Spithill) will be the match races of the decacde!"
Hold on tight, the big show hasn't begun yet! :lol:
Joe. :teeth :thup
I wouldn't bet against that Joe, but there is even more scandal--what would an AC be with out the courts and jury? First there was the issue of 5 lbs of extra weight either on the main or forward King post of the AC 45--during the World Series in the 45 footer.thought to be shore crew--now there is suggestion that at least 2 of the sailing crew involved. This weight is probably not significant--and hard for me to understand why it was even done. But if it does involve the sailing crew of Oracle, and even could involve one of the skippers--sanctions could be taken against Oracle. This could even involve actions which would impact the America's Cup final races--and even go to the extent of banning sailors for life from racing...
Add into this Gameday Merchandising Int'l, LLC is suing Golden Gate Yacht club (the holder of record of the America's cup), for a dispute involving the event and potential losses of merchandise franchise. Just more drama only in San Francisco?
Add into this Gameday Merchandising Int'l, LLC is suing Golden Gate Yacht club (the holder of record of the America's cup), for a dispute involving the event and potential losses of merchandise franchise. Just more drama only in San Francisco?
thataway":1hnyb9dt said:
Yup, I read all that on Scuttlebutt, and just now have concluded seeing today's Races 4 & 5, delayed on You Tube.
Too bad about the scandal. And really dumb! 5 pounds in a 45 footer's king post ='s wet tennis shoes instead of dry wet suit boots on a dingy sailor!
I really admire the NZ team's preparedness and execution!
Think I'll get a New Zealand flag out to wave in their honor along with my American flag as we enter the AC showdown!
Joe. :teeth :thup
El and Bill
New member
The AC presents a problem for us -- If it ends up New Zealand vs. US, on which team do we place our bets? We are Americans, but we have a son born in New Zealand (who is now naturalized and lives in Ohio)! Good grief -- maybe we should be supporting Italy now to solve our dilemma?
Or perhaps, we should just conclude that we win either way?
Or perhaps, we should just conclude that we win either way?
Most likely Emirates Team New Zealand will win the Louis Vuitton finals--4/1, so far and the only reason that Luna Rosa got one, was the breakdown of the New Zealand's hydraulic system. This apparently was an electrical problem, fixed on the water in a few minutes by the techs in the chase boat.
In 1983 we supported the Australians, mostly because what we perceived as arrogance of the New York Yacht club, which had held the trophy most of the time since it was won by the Schooner America.
Remember that the team is really Emirates Team New Zealand. This means that the boat is sponsored by Emirates Airline (Owned by the Government of Dubai)--and New Zealand Government. I don't know what the split is on the financing, but I suspect predominately by the airline. The crew of Emirates Team New Zealand, is mostly Kawaiis, but with a couple of Aussies...
In 1983 we supported the Australians, mostly because what we perceived as arrogance of the New York Yacht club, which had held the trophy most of the time since it was won by the Schooner America.
Remember that the team is really Emirates Team New Zealand. This means that the boat is sponsored by Emirates Airline (Owned by the Government of Dubai)--and New Zealand Government. I don't know what the split is on the financing, but I suspect predominately by the airline. The crew of Emirates Team New Zealand, is mostly Kawaiis, but with a couple of Aussies...
Interesting--if they just switched out a battery--no wonder the electrical problem was quickly resolved. On the other hand, "Voltage" should have been displayed on that "Wrist watch"....with all of the other data!
I would expect the same from ST. Francis. Too bad that GGYC is being sued--and I don't quite understand all of that.
Yep, the uniformed gal is the stewardess uniform for Emirates Air. On the other hand, it may well be that the Dubai government is footing some of the bills.
I would expect the same from ST. Francis. Too bad that GGYC is being sued--and I don't quite understand all of that.
Yep, the uniformed gal is the stewardess uniform for Emirates Air. On the other hand, it may well be that the Dubai government is footing some of the bills.
Well the Louis Vuitton cup is history, and maybe tomorrow we will find out what the judges did with rule 60 and 69 infractions on the AC 45 World Series (the extra 5 lbs of weight in the king posts).
However the next few days is about the AC 45 Youth Red Bull Youth Challenge series. There are 10 of the AC 45 cats (same boats as used in the America cup world series). The crew are all age 19 to 24 years of age and the next generation of superstars in sail boat racing. Some have sailed on the AC 45 WC, some are olympic medal winners, and some are class champions--mostly in dinghies or cats. The first 4 races on on video and this is far more exciting races than the AC 72 Louis Vuitton was. !0 boats at once-the boats are all equal. Scuttlebutt sailing news has the links to the videos of the races.
AC final races start Sept 7th--but these young folks are far more entertaining to watch!
However the next few days is about the AC 45 Youth Red Bull Youth Challenge series. There are 10 of the AC 45 cats (same boats as used in the America cup world series). The crew are all age 19 to 24 years of age and the next generation of superstars in sail boat racing. Some have sailed on the AC 45 WC, some are olympic medal winners, and some are class champions--mostly in dinghies or cats. The first 4 races on on video and this is far more exciting races than the AC 72 Louis Vuitton was. !0 boats at once-the boats are all equal. Scuttlebutt sailing news has the links to the videos of the races.
AC final races start Sept 7th--but these young folks are far more entertaining to watch!
Levitation
New member
I'm a Luddite. Were I in charge the boats would have to cross the Atlantic first and then race with the same sails and crew they crossed with.
They could still be cutting edge technology but the requirement to cross the pond will develop stuff that will translate down to club racers and cruisers a lot sooner and a lot more directly.
They could still be cutting edge technology but the requirement to cross the pond will develop stuff that will translate down to club racers and cruisers a lot sooner and a lot more directly.
The early cup races required the boats to Cross the Atlantic--as the Schooner America did. I saw a 12 meter which was built to those scantlings in Yugoslavia, which was built for the owner of Fiat Motors.
The current Around The World Racers are far more sophisticated than our "normal" race boats--and some are multihulls, capable of very high speeds--as are some of the monohulls.
But the America's cup over the last few challenges was devised for media attention--and advertising. If people don't like it and don't watch, then that type of racing will go away (as I think the 72's will), and something else will replace it. The New Zealand team has specifically said they want to take the Cup away from America, and return it to a different format; that was one of the arguments they used to convince the 80 man Luna Rosa team to stay for another couple of weeks and be a sparing partner just before the races with Oracle.
The current Around The World Racers are far more sophisticated than our "normal" race boats--and some are multihulls, capable of very high speeds--as are some of the monohulls.
But the America's cup over the last few challenges was devised for media attention--and advertising. If people don't like it and don't watch, then that type of racing will go away (as I think the 72's will), and something else will replace it. The New Zealand team has specifically said they want to take the Cup away from America, and return it to a different format; that was one of the arguments they used to convince the 80 man Luna Rosa team to stay for another couple of weeks and be a sparing partner just before the races with Oracle.
The jury verdict was released this afternoon. It involves both addition of a very small amount of weight to king posts in the AC 45's and increasing length of the fitting which secures the King post in place.
The wing sail trimmer of Oracle, .Alternate Helmsman, and several shore crew members are basically off the team (These are all professional sailors--who compete at high levels, and it will have a very adverse effect on their careers.) There is a $250,000 penalty against Oracle; $125,00 will go to a foundation for the sailor who was killed in the Artimas accident, and $125,000 to a disadvantaged youth sailing program of San Francisco. Oracle is docked two points--basically this means that to win the America's Cu[, Oracle will have to win 11 races, or E/Team New Zealand only has to win 9 races.
The amount of difference the changes made to the AC 45 boats was minimal--and probably made no difference. Careers are ruined, Oracle's chance of retaining the Cup is decreased. Will sailors learn and not cheat even on a minimal change? Unfortunately I fear not...
The wing sail trimmer of Oracle, .Alternate Helmsman, and several shore crew members are basically off the team (These are all professional sailors--who compete at high levels, and it will have a very adverse effect on their careers.) There is a $250,000 penalty against Oracle; $125,00 will go to a foundation for the sailor who was killed in the Artimas accident, and $125,000 to a disadvantaged youth sailing program of San Francisco. Oracle is docked two points--basically this means that to win the America's Cu[, Oracle will have to win 11 races, or E/Team New Zealand only has to win 9 races.
The amount of difference the changes made to the AC 45 boats was minimal--and probably made no difference. Careers are ruined, Oracle's chance of retaining the Cup is decreased. Will sailors learn and not cheat even on a minimal change? Unfortunately I fear not...
I realize that not many of the C Brats are interested in sailing--but I want to give an update, and some commentary on where the technology goes from America's cup racing to power boats--and may eventually affect a boat like the C Dory.
The design firm of Gino Morrelli and Pete Melvin both helped to write the rules for the AC 72 footers and designed the New Zealand boat. The following article is nteresting to read and relates how the foiling technology has evolved in the AC 72's, where were not believed to be able to foil as they are when the design was created.
http://www.cupinfo.com/en/americas-cup-gino-morrelli-foils-multihulls-13144.php
Recently Oracle has reached speeds foiling upwind of over 30 knots which is one of the factors which has kept them in the race. Only about 6 weeks ago it was felt it was not possible to lift up and foil upwind.
Despite the 2 race penalty Oracle has won 4 races and New Zealand 8--it only takes 9 to win. There are wind strength limits, which have delayed a second race on a number of days. Today it could be New Zealand's day to wind that last race.
Back to M & M designs. They are now putting foils on a 66 foot 40,000 lb. cruising cat, and expect some dramatic runs in the Caribbean. See the article for the technology, but it means much greater efficiency for the boat, and I think we will see more foil technology applied to both catamaran and monohull power boats into the future. Consider that the same 90 hp in the C Dory would allow a speed of 30 knots into a 2 foot chop with a smooth ride for the same amount of fuel as at 18 knots!
The design firm of Gino Morrelli and Pete Melvin both helped to write the rules for the AC 72 footers and designed the New Zealand boat. The following article is nteresting to read and relates how the foiling technology has evolved in the AC 72's, where were not believed to be able to foil as they are when the design was created.
http://www.cupinfo.com/en/americas-cup-gino-morrelli-foils-multihulls-13144.php
Recently Oracle has reached speeds foiling upwind of over 30 knots which is one of the factors which has kept them in the race. Only about 6 weeks ago it was felt it was not possible to lift up and foil upwind.
Despite the 2 race penalty Oracle has won 4 races and New Zealand 8--it only takes 9 to win. There are wind strength limits, which have delayed a second race on a number of days. Today it could be New Zealand's day to wind that last race.
Back to M & M designs. They are now putting foils on a 66 foot 40,000 lb. cruising cat, and expect some dramatic runs in the Caribbean. See the article for the technology, but it means much greater efficiency for the boat, and I think we will see more foil technology applied to both catamaran and monohull power boats into the future. Consider that the same 90 hp in the C Dory would allow a speed of 30 knots into a 2 foot chop with a smooth ride for the same amount of fuel as at 18 knots!
Bob,
Thanks for keeping us up. I have had a very hard time being able to follow these races due to work and some other scheduling issues so I appreciate the score and commentary here.
Maybe next race I will be able to be there, (well I hope so, especially if it is in New Zealand.
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
Thanks for keeping us up. I have had a very hard time being able to follow these races due to work and some other scheduling issues so I appreciate the score and commentary here.
Maybe next race I will be able to be there, (well I hope so, especially if it is in New Zealand.
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
America wins two races today -- against all odds...New Zealand has had only to win one race for the last 3 days to win the series--America has come in with 4 wins. Weather has been a factor--when the race was called for time and New Zealand was ahead almost to the finish line...
Again, Oracle wins two more races--they have won 7 in a row--were down and NZ had to only win one of the last 7 races, and they have not.
Tomorrow should be the last race. Both boats are up 8 (Oracle won 10, but had a 2 race penality to start). Who wins tomorrow, takes the cup. I thought it was impossible to come back. Better tactics, making the boat slightly better by Oracle--
Tomorrow should be the last race. Both boats are up 8 (Oracle won 10, but had a 2 race penality to start). Who wins tomorrow, takes the cup. I thought it was impossible to come back. Better tactics, making the boat slightly better by Oracle--
Wandering Sagebrush
Free Range Human
thataway":t2vyckh2 said:
Bob, I caught the end of the race while having a late lunch here in Moab. Amazing seamanship! I guess it doesn't matter who wins, but I would still like to see Oracle pull it off.