Alcohol vs Wallas for heating & cooking

Please be very careful about using unvented stoves as heaters. The Clay pot is very dangerous--because of carbon monoxide. Unfortunately I have both seen some carbon monoxide poisoings which have died--and some which have lived during my medical practice.

Propane is a great fuel, but it is not real effecient (cost wise) as a long term heat source. In our cruising boats we had diesel fired heaters--one was hot water circulation--the best--with radiators in various parts of the boats, and fans. The other was a stove type, with fan forced hot air--not quite as good as the water circulation.

I agree with the small demand of heat necessary for the CD 22--3000 btu to 6000 btu will do fine in most climats--except of course the really cold areas--but if you put insullation pads on the hull and windows, it will do will with 6000 btu in more extreme conditons.
 
I am the one that installed the Wallas 1300 heater as mentioned earlier in my CD25. I did a LOT of research before jumping into it. Took me forever to locate it just right to have the right gooseneck for the combustion vent tubing, height from the fuel resevoir, etc. I wrote up a pretty detailed explanation of my installation, pictures are in my photo album.

I couldn't be happier with it. It works flawlessly (knock on Roger's head), I used it at the Santa Barbara get-together last weekend, hit upper 40's or low 50's, whatever, it was 'chilly' for us SoCal people. I like how it controls the heat-up and cool-down cycles automatically, thus making sure it doesn't get inadvertantly shut down incorrectly. One switch does it all. The 1300 Watts of heat seems about right for my boat, but I haven't had it below 35 deg weather yet, it should handle it fine. Haven't had to, but if it gets too warm in the cabin, simple crack open a window or two to regulate. It sips fuel miserly, I believe it is 4 oz per hour. 3 hours of use last weekend and I couldn't detect a fuel level change, probably about 1/2" on my 1 1/2 gal tank.

Cost was about $900 for the unit plus extra register, forced air flex hoses, lead-thru for the hull, remote switch and wiring, and the tank, total about $1,150 I believe. At the time I thought it was a bit pricey, but after using it and understanding its operation, price is well worth it. Current drain after 3 minutes is 0.4 amps, less than 1/2 of a light bulb! I run Klean Heat exclusively.

I also really like my alcohol stove. You have to learn to cook on them. I've cooked practically everything with it, including belgian waffles in a cast iron maker (2 burners). For colder climes though, the H2O output could be a bother. I ALWAYS crack 2 windows open during its use, both for safety (CO) and to help ventilate the H2O byproduct. I've had this same model stove on the last 3 boats, just ask my family how well it cooks!

I like this combination, an ultra reliable stove and a heater that makes life good when the temperature drops.
 
We just returned a couple of days ago from 5 1/2 days at Eagle Lake near Susanville, Ca.

With sub-freezing morning temperatures at 5100 ft, we enjoyed 75 degree cabin temperatues while those in open boats and those even with canvas enclosures had to endure the bitter cold and biting wind.

They were pretty envious when the found out we had real heat inside the enclosed cabin.

In the morning, you don't mind finding the boat shrouded in sparkling frost and 20 some degree temperatues when you know you can have it toasty* inside in 10-15 minutes!

*a-la the Fabled Tropical Tip of Texas! :hot :hot :hot

Joe. :wink
 
I found the thread regarding my installation, it is here. Would be glad to answer questions (best I can) that others might have on my installation, just PM me.
 
We have the Wallas and are happy with it. We are out year round and have used kerosene, Klean Heat and diesel....we've stuck with diesel because of the factory rep's suggestions.

Chuck
 
Those of you with - or considering - alcohol stoves might want to read the BoatUS Seaworthy article "Why Boats Catch Fire":

http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/fire/default.asp

6) Stove 1%
Stove fires appear to be less common (1%) than in the past, probably due to fewer alcohol stoves being installed on new boats. Still, alcohol can be a dangerous fuel; though it can’t explode, an alcohol flame is hard to see. One fire was started when a member tried to light the stove and gave up because he couldn’t see the flame. Unfortunately, he had succeeded, but didn’t realize it until he got a call from the fire department. Only one fire was started by propane; a portable stove fell off a counter and ignited a cushion.
 
Another heating option folks might want to consider is an Espar D2. There are a couple of dealers who are selling new units on EBAY for just over $1K. You'll have to add an exhaust fitting and a tank for fuel, but that's about it. Also, though they say diesel the factory mechanics say you're better off with kerosene.

I put one of these on my previous small boat (a 17' Arima), and it was fabulous. I have another one that I'm planning to install on my Osprey next month (I have recirculating engine water heat so it's not "critical" yet according to the first mate).
 
centerisland-

Thanks for the link to the fire cause analysis!

This one has to be a classic and also qualifies for the Daily Laugh thread:

Fuel Fires-

"One fire started when a member poured gas down a carburetor to start the engine. The engine backfired and caught the overhead on fire; the member jumped off the boat and ran to his house carrying the gas can, spilling gas along the way. The fire department report noted a zigzag burn pattern on the lawn up to the member’s front door. Fortunately, aside from some burned grass, there was no damage to the house (Claim #0009144)."

And I thought that one of the benefits of boating was to force you to learn to think clearly under pressure!

Joe. :lol:
 
I followed Steve's lead when I installed the Wallas 1300. He does have a nice write up and some good pictures. I will try and get some pictures up of how it looks in my 22 soon. Here are a few note for Rob and Karen and others:

The price went up. It cost about $250 more in spring of 07 than it did in spring of 06, in large part to strong Euro I believe.

The installation was and was not difficult. What made it hard for me was back and knees that aren't so flexible anymore. Everything was done in tight quarters. I needed just less than two feet of the double walled steel exhaust/inlet pipe but I had ordered three feet so could have save a couple of bucks there, ditto on the warm air duct pipe. I, like Steve, ordered an extra Wallas vent cap but did not use it. Instead I used some less expensive round white vent registers. They were white and also more flush with the cabinet after install. They still had directional louvers so the heat is directed downward.
Rather than mount a board to the hull and the unit to the board (which I have done successfully for battery charger and other devices) I mounted the main unit to the wall of the cabinet behind the helm seat and inside the galley cabinet. Tight fit. As Steve points out you have to have enough room to have sufficient goose neck in the exhaust pipe and also no dips in the feed line. The latter was no problem at all for me as the fuel tank is almost directly below the unit. I have enough goose neck, the neat double pipe through hull goes through the blue stripe on my boat. I bought the fiberglass insulation for the pipe and used it. Because the doulble walled stainless pipe bends sharply the inner wall (exhaust gasses) contacts the outer wall (combustion intake) and the pipe does get hot. I installed two steel plates with 1/4 inch spacers to prevent the pipe contacting the underside of the wood galley top and wiring respectively. It was the amount of wiring I had running fore and aft that really precluded an against the hull install. In the end I like this install better. Just a one foot or so duct to the heat register.
Scan Marine recommended Klean Heat for this unit. The Wallas literature seems to recommend Kerosene. They sell Klean Heat at Home Depot but last spring it was all gone. I found an end of year sale of Klean Heat brand kerosene at Walmart and bought six gallons. This is extra clean kerosene (apparently). It seems to work very well. It is miserly on fuel. It puts out steady hot air, not adjustable, about 4000 btu as I recall. You can't regulate the heat output. You do that by opening or closing a window. At 32 degrees you will have window open if sun is out and almost closed if cloudy. I bought the remote control switch and put it on the dashboard.
Many of the reported problems with wallas stove/heater unit seem to come from the thermostat, or from low voltage, or from daily use as a stove and only occasional use as a heater. I don't have experience with that unit but I hope this unit, being simpler, will be reliable. So far perfect. When you turn the switch off the unit continues to run for a few minutes until it cools down. So you would not want it wired to the ignition or something where current supply could be suddenly shut off.
Hope some of your questions are answered and I will try and get some pics up. Someone on this board has pics of the 1300 unit installed on top of the stove with a vertical intake/exhaust pipe through the roof. That would be the easiest. cheapest install and there would not be any hot surfaces. But it would be visible at all times and take up some counter top room. There are also some toyotami pics of a similar install. The Webasto and Espar units are more powerful, more complex, and more expensive than the 1300. But they will also push the warm air farther and an installation could be done with ducts to cuddy and windshield. I run the 1300 and a windshield fan when necessary and the windows stay pretty clear.

Regards, Mark
 
While I do love the Wallas for cooking and heat, it can heat up the cabin alot in warm weather cooking since it has to slowly shut down.

I just wanted to toss in another really handy option for cooking - a Magma Newport propane grill mounted with quick releases on the aft rail. I use mine all the time - for grilling, skillets, cast iron grill, and it even makes toast quickly without unduly warming the cabin in summer! Nice padded cover protects the grill and the vinyl camperback. The small blue bag hangs propane cylinders off the aft area hanging from the rail there. Also, you can put the extra shelf, the tongs, spatula, fork, etc, for storage inside the locking top unit.

The indoor propane, ventless grills and cookers are really a mess. I've had some on previous boats, and I think they make the boat smell funny. As Dr. Bob mentions, they can be dangerous, even with the oxygen depletion shutoff. Also, they pour out water into the inside air, so actually make fogging worse than if they weren't on. The Wallas dries the inside air with heat and exhausts the combustions moisture outdoors.

john
 
Sea Wolf":aven4p52 said:
and ran to his house carrying the gas can, spilling gas along the way.

And I thought that one of the benefits of boating was to force you to learn to think clearly under pressure!
Joe. :lol:
Click to expand...

I'd bet he was hoping to "run out of gas" before he got to his house... :mrgreen:
 
Just a short note to remind everyone that one of Dr. Bob's admonisions is to always store propane cannisters- and in particular partially used canisters- in a vented space outside the cabin where the heavier than air propane will flow away or diffuse into the air. This is because the cannisters can sometimes leak, especially after they've been used once or more.

Personally, I'm embarrased to admit that I like having as many heating and cooking alternatives as possible aboard the boat to have choices, then sit down and eat cold sandwiches and beer! Or microwave something super easy! :embarrased

I guess it's hard to overcome humble beginnings!

Joe. :wink
 
DaveS":1sq5zj31 said:
Sea Wolf":1sq5zj31 said:
and ran to his house carrying the gas can, spilling gas along the way.

And I thought that one of the benefits of boating was to force you to learn to think clearly under pressure!
Joe. :lol:
Click to expand...

I'd bet he was hoping to "run out of gas" before he got to his house... :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Dave-

He was probably just another fireman like you trying to forge a fire trail in the heat of need!

Joe. :smileo
 
Thanks Jim!

HD's website dosen't recognize the product and I haven't been over to the store looking for it yet. Will take a look for it next time I'm there.

Drew :)
 
OK.....decided the propane unit uses to much fuel....it runs 14 hours per gallon.... I am not sure what that really means...as it is continuous running and I don't have a clue how much a heater in a 22 would run.....15 minutes per hour ?? Guess that would depend on how cold it is outside... we plan on going north in the summer and south in the winter...but still it gets cold in the mornings.... and in some places it even rains all day... (Redding ?)

Joel
SEA3PO
 
Back
Top