Alcohol vs Wallas for heating & cooking
- Thread starter Gratitude
- Start date
flapbreaker
New member
I have no experience with the alcohol stove so take this with a grain of salt. I love my wallas. The heat from it is dry. I can run it all night while sleeping and the cabin never gets stuffy. I've been around other types of heaters on boats and they all seem to produce a stuffy heat. It's the one thing on the boat that makes it livable in any weather. Well worth the money in my opinion.
One more thought. If you decide to go without the wallas just keep in mind that it is a popular option in the northwest and if you ever have to sell your boat it MIGHT make a difference. I could be wrong about that one but I know when I was looking I didn't want one with an alcohol stove.
One more thought. If you decide to go without the wallas just keep in mind that it is a popular option in the northwest and if you ever have to sell your boat it MIGHT make a difference. I could be wrong about that one but I know when I was looking I didn't want one with an alcohol stove.
We went with the butane/electric combo., because we do not use the stove that much and have been happy heating the cabin with small portable heaters. We get more storage space without the fuel storage and am guessing a lot less maintenance. Also, the canister is really easy to use.
Nancy
Nancy
Jim-
Most of the alcohol stoves are for cooking only.
They are inexpensive, but dump their combustion gasses directly into the cabin.
Alcohol produces CO2 and H2O like all combustion processes, but with a higher proportion of water which collects on windows and the cabin interior in cold weather.
Also, some of the alcohol doesn't fully combust, so there is an odor to the exhaust gasses, which some find objectionable or even get headaches from.
The Origo alcohol stove originally put in the C-Dorys as OEM equipment was a non-pressurized system, and considered very safe. Some alcohol stoves are pressurized much like a Coleman camping stove, but usually perform w/o problems.
I think I've heard that the curent OEM stove is a propane cannister stove, but I could well be wrong.
***************************************************************
The Wallas diesel/kerosene stove is a very expensive, highly engineered, dual-purpose cooking stove and cabin heater.
It is vented externally by an exhaust fan, elminating combustion gasses in the cabin.
It runs on diesel, kerosene, or systhetic fuels like Clean Heat, there being some controversy as to which is the best fuel. (10,000+ posts and counting).
The Heat is produced in as fuel is dripped into a small pot (bucket). Almost all functions of the stove are electronicqally controlled by a computer within the undercarriage.
Heat rises within the combusion chamber to a ceramic cooktop.
The Cooking is done on the to of the ceramic surface.
Most Wallas stoves have two burners, and high and low settings.
For cabin heat, a small fan circulates air over the top of the cooktop to blow warm air into the cabin.
Some folks have had various problems with the Wallas stoves.
There is some consensus that the stove is over-engineered.
Many problems can be solved by the owner, others have to have Karl at the service center intervene. You can also learn to speak one or more of the Scandanavian languages while you wait for repairs!
I have to go now as we've lost a big oak tree into the street!!!
Joe. :sad [/i]
Most of the alcohol stoves are for cooking only.
They are inexpensive, but dump their combustion gasses directly into the cabin.
Alcohol produces CO2 and H2O like all combustion processes, but with a higher proportion of water which collects on windows and the cabin interior in cold weather.
Also, some of the alcohol doesn't fully combust, so there is an odor to the exhaust gasses, which some find objectionable or even get headaches from.
The Origo alcohol stove originally put in the C-Dorys as OEM equipment was a non-pressurized system, and considered very safe. Some alcohol stoves are pressurized much like a Coleman camping stove, but usually perform w/o problems.
I think I've heard that the curent OEM stove is a propane cannister stove, but I could well be wrong.
***************************************************************
The Wallas diesel/kerosene stove is a very expensive, highly engineered, dual-purpose cooking stove and cabin heater.
It is vented externally by an exhaust fan, elminating combustion gasses in the cabin.
It runs on diesel, kerosene, or systhetic fuels like Clean Heat, there being some controversy as to which is the best fuel. (10,000+ posts and counting).
The Heat is produced in as fuel is dripped into a small pot (bucket). Almost all functions of the stove are electronicqally controlled by a computer within the undercarriage.
Heat rises within the combusion chamber to a ceramic cooktop.
The Cooking is done on the to of the ceramic surface.
Most Wallas stoves have two burners, and high and low settings.
For cabin heat, a small fan circulates air over the top of the cooktop to blow warm air into the cabin.
Some folks have had various problems with the Wallas stoves.
There is some consensus that the stove is over-engineered.
Many problems can be solved by the owner, others have to have Karl at the service center intervene. You can also learn to speak one or more of the Scandanavian languages while you wait for repairs!
I have to go now as we've lost a big oak tree into the street!!!
Joe. :sad [/i]
I live in the north west and ordered my new c-dory with the wallis. I have been boating for many years and I know the importance of heat. If you are just cooking then go with whatever you like. But not only is heat important up here, but dry heat. Propane for example gives off a very humid heat. I also intend to install a sea-cook stove in the cockpit. They are a gimballed single burner that is awesome. Check it out
http://www.stevestonmarine.com/product_ ... 921&page=5
These little burners are awesome. As far as alcohol. It never gets very hot and takes forever to cook anything.
Good luck!!
Jim D
http://www.stevestonmarine.com/product_ ... 921&page=5
These little burners are awesome. As far as alcohol. It never gets very hot and takes forever to cook anything.
Good luck!!
Jim D
I hate to admit it but I think the Wallis is the best choice.... it is way expensive...and it is troublesome...and complicated...but I have had alcohol and it was worthless....miserable stuff.....so I went to propane with a tank in the lazarette. and properly installed... and it works just super...but it does not work as a heater...... I don't mind...but my wife sure does...and so I may end up installing a Wallis ................she retires this year and wants to go north and will definitely want a heater.
I have looked at the Wallis heater and that is one option....as I really like the propane stove...and would like to keep that.
Joel
SEA3PO
I have looked at the Wallis heater and that is one option....as I really like the propane stove...and would like to keep that.
Joel
SEA3PO
wailedcentipede
New member
the newer models may do better but the alcohol stove I have is the worst thing I have seen cooking is next to impossible .. stainless steel looks pretty but no heat .. wc
I ordered my boat with the Origo alchohal stove--- We're in SoCal-- who needs a friggin heater.
Three years later I had the factory install the Wallas. Should have ordered it in the first place. I've had the Wallas for 2 years and have not had any trouble- love it. (knock on my wooden head)
Three years later I had the factory install the Wallas. Should have ordered it in the first place. I've had the Wallas for 2 years and have not had any trouble- love it. (knock on my wooden head)
I've got some folks working on the downed oak tree, so will try to add some thoughts.
People with Wallas stoves either swear by them or swear at them because of their sometimes problematic/temperamental nature, but they're a very viable choice in cold climates.
Alcohol stoves are simple and cheap, but don't work very well for all the reasons listed above.
Alternately, you can use a portable propane cannister stove to cook on, and it can be used inside or outside the cabin. On my Sea Ray with it's combo electric (120 v AC) / pressurized alcohol stove, I also have a cannister Coleman stove with two burners that I use instead out in the covered cockpit to avoid cooking odors inside the cabin. One of the two burners has a dual burner that has an interchangable grille / griddle top for steaks or pancakes, etc. Very flexible!
In my C-Dory, I have a propane system with a Wedgewood three-burner cook stove and a Force 10 Cozy Cabin propane convection heater with 2 fans and both propane and carbon monoxide detectors for safety.
Some folks are afraid of propane because of the explosion hazard, but with care and diligence I find it a great system. Nothing else produces cooking and cabin heat anywhere near as fast or as plentiful!!!
Some folks also use propane cannister heaters such as the Mr. Buddy models, but they vent the combustion gasses directly into the cabin and must be used cautiously with a window cracked open for positive ventilation.
A portable 1500 / 750 watt electric (ceramic is safer than a hot wire type) heater is an absolutely great (and cheap) alternative everyone should have when at a marina and on 120V AC Shore Power!
Another choice for cooking is the Magma stainless steel BBQ models. These are mostly propane powered, and must be used out on a cockpit rail and are pretty much BBQ grilles only. You could put a pot or pan on one of these grilles, but the heat transfer wouldn't be very efficient. BTW: Hot charcoal on a boat is like smoking in an enclosed gas filling station!
The alternatives are just about endless, but unfortunately the space aboard any of the C-Dorys isn't. One has to decide what's best for their style of boating and climate expectations.
There are tons of photos of different stove/heater installations in the Detail Photos of the Cabin and Interior section of the Forum.
Joe.
Force 10 Cozy Cabin heater and 3-burner propane stove on Sea Wolf.
Four switches on black box on left control heater fans and gas detectors.
People with Wallas stoves either swear by them or swear at them because of their sometimes problematic/temperamental nature, but they're a very viable choice in cold climates.
Alcohol stoves are simple and cheap, but don't work very well for all the reasons listed above.
Alternately, you can use a portable propane cannister stove to cook on, and it can be used inside or outside the cabin. On my Sea Ray with it's combo electric (120 v AC) / pressurized alcohol stove, I also have a cannister Coleman stove with two burners that I use instead out in the covered cockpit to avoid cooking odors inside the cabin. One of the two burners has a dual burner that has an interchangable grille / griddle top for steaks or pancakes, etc. Very flexible!
In my C-Dory, I have a propane system with a Wedgewood three-burner cook stove and a Force 10 Cozy Cabin propane convection heater with 2 fans and both propane and carbon monoxide detectors for safety.
Some folks are afraid of propane because of the explosion hazard, but with care and diligence I find it a great system. Nothing else produces cooking and cabin heat anywhere near as fast or as plentiful!!!
Some folks also use propane cannister heaters such as the Mr. Buddy models, but they vent the combustion gasses directly into the cabin and must be used cautiously with a window cracked open for positive ventilation.
A portable 1500 / 750 watt electric (ceramic is safer than a hot wire type) heater is an absolutely great (and cheap) alternative everyone should have when at a marina and on 120V AC Shore Power!
Another choice for cooking is the Magma stainless steel BBQ models. These are mostly propane powered, and must be used out on a cockpit rail and are pretty much BBQ grilles only. You could put a pot or pan on one of these grilles, but the heat transfer wouldn't be very efficient. BTW: Hot charcoal on a boat is like smoking in an enclosed gas filling station!
The alternatives are just about endless, but unfortunately the space aboard any of the C-Dorys isn't. One has to decide what's best for their style of boating and climate expectations.
There are tons of photos of different stove/heater installations in the Detail Photos of the Cabin and Interior section of the Forum.
Joe.
Force 10 Cozy Cabin heater and 3-burner propane stove on Sea Wolf.
Four switches on black box on left control heater fans and gas detectors.
Not For Hire
New member
I love my alcohol stove. Foolproof, instant on, instant off, always works, very safe. I find it great for cooking. Have had alcohol stoves in past and liked em. But they are not for heat.
For heat I used a couple of small butane or propane heaters but they do exhaust in the cabin and were not the best choice. So -
I added a Wallas 1300 heater. Much simpler than the wallas stove. I push one button and it blows in warm dry heat. Push the same button when I want to turn it off. Works perfect so far and I anticipate it will be more trouble free than the wallas stove/heater combo. I think I have the best of both worlds.
My installation is similar to the one illustrated by Steve on this site. His was in a 25, mine in a 22. I mounted my furnace inside the galley on the forward cabinet wall, (between the sink and helm). The heat blows out and down from a vent that faces the aisle in the upper left corner of the galley cabinet. I wired the wallas directly to house battery switch and took some other precautions. It directly vents through the hull in the dual pipe arrangement like factory models.
Regards,
Mark
For heat I used a couple of small butane or propane heaters but they do exhaust in the cabin and were not the best choice. So -
I added a Wallas 1300 heater. Much simpler than the wallas stove. I push one button and it blows in warm dry heat. Push the same button when I want to turn it off. Works perfect so far and I anticipate it will be more trouble free than the wallas stove/heater combo. I think I have the best of both worlds.
My installation is similar to the one illustrated by Steve on this site. His was in a 25, mine in a 22. I mounted my furnace inside the galley on the forward cabinet wall, (between the sink and helm). The heat blows out and down from a vent that faces the aisle in the upper left corner of the galley cabinet. I wired the wallas directly to house battery switch and took some other precautions. It directly vents through the hull in the dual pipe arrangement like factory models.
Regards,
Mark
Hi folks,
I now have a Origo single stove which will take the spill off when it is cold and wet. You have to vent it.
For heat, Dun has a Mister Heat, a portable propane heater. I am thinking of getting that.
As for the Wallis type stove heater. It seams like a great idea if you cruise in cold weather.
I also carry a small electric heater to use when I can hook up with shore side electricity.
If I ever buy another C-Dory new, I would add the Wallis.
Fred
I now have a Origo single stove which will take the spill off when it is cold and wet. You have to vent it.
For heat, Dun has a Mister Heat, a portable propane heater. I am thinking of getting that.
As for the Wallis type stove heater. It seams like a great idea if you cruise in cold weather.
I also carry a small electric heater to use when I can hook up with shore side electricity.
If I ever buy another C-Dory new, I would add the Wallis.
Fred
hey Mark.....Roughly do you remember how much the Wallas 1300 heater was ??and what extra did you have to buy to install it?? I have been looking at Steve's and my wife last week mentioned when she retires and we head north she wants heat.....The other heater I looked at was the Toyo heater but it is a higher output than I wanted...
Joel
SEA3PO
Joel
SEA3PO
My operating hypothesis for how to keep the Wallas healthy is to run it for at least 10 minutes every time I take the boat out, or go to the boat -- a minimum of once a month, more often is better. On the last two trips I had to run it twice to get it to produce heat, but it always worked on the second try (first try it would blow lukewarm air only, red light not on, green light on. Second try red and green.)
I also think I have not been prostrating myself before it with sufficient burnt offerings. Must ramp that up.
Warren
I also think I have not been prostrating myself before it with sufficient burnt offerings. Must ramp that up.
Warren
I wrote to Toyo and they said their heater is $899 .... but I am kinda worried that it produces too much heat for a C-Dory.... it is designed for a 35' boat... I think I will look at it and see what it produces on low compared to the Wallas 1300...... Remember Fishwisher ? He has sold his boat but before he did that...he hated his Wallas and sold it...and replaced the heater with the Toyo heater....I think he had a 22 Angler....and was happy with the Toyo.
Joel
SEA3PO
Joel
SEA3PO
starcrafttom
Active member
I hate my wallas as many of you know. On the next boat I will go with a seperate heater and cook top. There are several products like the wallas 1300 out there. I like that fact that with a seperate heater I could vent hot air in to the v-birth directly on suans aft quarters. that way I can get to sleep with out frost shock.
The old stye pressurized alcohol stoves were relitatively dangerous--and I saw a number of boat fires due to them. The current breed--which are more like sterno heaters, are only moderately effective as stoves--but don't have the safety concerns of the older pressurized stoves.
I do not like canaster propane stoves--have seen fires and explosions from them--plus the carbon monoxide danger.
I have used propane, built in stoves, with proper sniffers, and external tanks for many years--and these are probably the best stoves for a long distance cruising boat.
For the C Dory--my feeling is that the Wallas is probably the best choice.
I do not like canaster propane stoves--have seen fires and explosions from them--plus the carbon monoxide danger.
I have used propane, built in stoves, with proper sniffers, and external tanks for many years--and these are probably the best stoves for a long distance cruising boat.
For the C Dory--my feeling is that the Wallas is probably the best choice.
our boat used to have the Origo stove, very dependable, but as mentioned, the combustion by-products make for a durn rain forrest like enviroment the cabin and it took forever to cook anything. I yarded the booze stove out when I got a good deal on a used one burner Wallas (which I might add works great except every now and then I have to tear it all appart and give it a good cleaning). If buying a new boat I think an electric stove....maybe a portable one that could be stashed when not needed and a Wallas, Toyo or Webasto forced air heater would be the way to go. The stove could be hooked to shore power or used with a little gen set (got to have that for the microwave anyway) and the forced air heater would do a bunch better job of heating..you could have an actual window defroster
my $.02
my $.02
On our small boats, space and functionality are important. We've had the Origo in a previous boat, and it certainly did an OK job with the cooking; as mentioned here, less heat and more humidity in use. In a pinch, you could put an upside down clay pot on the Origo and get radiant heat... not particularly efficient, though. The Wallas, on the other hand, is a good cooktop and heater. Whether it is worth the extra $$$ is a personal call.
Other options we utilize on WIld Blue are: a single burner butane cooktop - heats faster than the Wallas and puts less heat in the cabin for times when it's warm (I can explain that in further detail for you PNW folks :wink: ). We also use a propane grill in the cockpit on occasion. When we're plugged into shore power (or have the generator running), we use a small electric heater (and save our Kleen Heat), a GT 101 Express cooker, and a small toaster/convection oven. It's nice to have the variety and flexibility.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
Other options we utilize on WIld Blue are: a single burner butane cooktop - heats faster than the Wallas and puts less heat in the cabin for times when it's warm (I can explain that in further detail for you PNW folks :wink: ). We also use a propane grill in the cockpit on occasion. When we're plugged into shore power (or have the generator running), we use a small electric heater (and save our Kleen Heat), a GT 101 Express cooker, and a small toaster/convection oven. It's nice to have the variety and flexibility.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
What Joel was talking about when he mentioned that he thought the Toyotomi heater had too large an output might not be clear to some neophytes.
If the heater has too great an output, 1) it must be shut down periodically, or 2) a window must be opened to avoid overheating, or 3) if the overly large heater is thermostatically controlled, it then cycles on and off endlessly, just like the refrigerator that drives folks nuts with its on-off antics.
A heater for a CD-22 should, in my opinion, have a low setting of no more than 3000 btu's (about 750 watts), and a high setting of about 6000-9000 btu's (1600-2100 watts.)
A heater that puts out 12,000 btu's in a Cd-22 is like a B-52 being used to deliver ruraal mail, or a 18-wheel diesel truck carrying folks around on the golf course.
Joe. :teeth
If the heater has too great an output, 1) it must be shut down periodically, or 2) a window must be opened to avoid overheating, or 3) if the overly large heater is thermostatically controlled, it then cycles on and off endlessly, just like the refrigerator that drives folks nuts with its on-off antics.
A heater for a CD-22 should, in my opinion, have a low setting of no more than 3000 btu's (about 750 watts), and a high setting of about 6000-9000 btu's (1600-2100 watts.)
A heater that puts out 12,000 btu's in a Cd-22 is like a B-52 being used to deliver ruraal mail, or a 18-wheel diesel truck carrying folks around on the golf course.
Joe. :teeth
I have been looking at a neat little propane heater a Propex HS2000 since I already have a propane system on board....looks pretty neat...and about the same size as the Wallas 1300 that runs on Diesel (Kleen heat)
Both look perfect for a 22' boat....and the Propex is $1537 for the kit... I e-mailed Scan Marine to get a current price for the Wallas...
The larger Toyoset NS2800 diesel heater (4,900-9800btu) is only $899
Joel
SEA3PO
Both look perfect for a 22' boat....and the Propex is $1537 for the kit... I e-mailed Scan Marine to get a current price for the Wallas...
The larger Toyoset NS2800 diesel heater (4,900-9800btu) is only $899
Joel
SEA3PO