Alcohol Stove
- Thread starter Big dave
- Start date
kennharriet":2n0wh3dw said:
This makes little sense to me...I must be missing something.
You can buy E85 "gasoline", which is 85% alcohol for just over $2/gal.
Why should 100% alcohol cost $15 gallon? Based on gasoline costs (without ethanol), the alcohol content in E85 should be about $1.50/gal., not 10x that amount.
As far as I know, denatured alcohol is ethanol, with additives to prevent its consumption as a beverage, and thus exempt from liquor taxes.
Also, I believe motor fuel ethanol subsidies have ended, so that wouldn't explain the 90% difference in cost either.
Also, wondering if E85 would be safe in an alcohol stove, or, if not, is there a simple way to remove the 15% gasoline from E85%?
Or, is my math a little rusty?
There's no simple way to remove the 15% gasoline from the E85. Fractionation by distillation would get you there if you know what you're doing and have time to mess with it but there are much cheaper sources of ethanol around. 85% of $2 = $1.70 so the math is just a tad rusty but close enough for government work and the point you were trying to make. :lol: You can buy denatured alcohol in 5 gal drums for about $30 but the shipping on them is another $50. The extra cost of shipping flammable materials is what helps to drive up the price.Karl":33ys834m said:
As for alcohol floating on water, perhaps the alcohol spray was igniting before merging with the water. The whole reason for alcohol being safe to use on a boat is that when water is introduced to an alcohol fire it dissolves into and smothers the fire. I thought this was a chemical fact. Please advise.
Why take a chance, these wick type stoves are safe and do a great job of cooking, though they do add moisture to the cabin.
I need some help on this E15, E10 blend. My understanding, and apparently the US Government's as well is that the 15% is the alcohol in the blend, not the amount of gasoline. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml
Again, please advise.
OBTW: I also use rum in my alcohol stove.
Why take a chance, these wick type stoves are safe and do a great job of cooking, though they do add moisture to the cabin.
I need some help on this E15, E10 blend. My understanding, and apparently the US Government's as well is that the 15% is the alcohol in the blend, not the amount of gasoline. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml
Again, please advise.
OBTW: I also use rum in my alcohol stove.
anchorout":4vbqh5ay said:
Negative. E85 is 85% ethanol and 15 % gasoline (AKA "Flex Fuel").
My math was slightly off due to the wide local discrepancy between E10 and E85 pricing, and the fact that so few stations even offer E85...I can't easily monitor E85 pricing because no stations nearby sell it...and I used the last remembered price...but E10 has fallen sharply in the past week here in town. No idea what E85 is this week...seems like a poor idea anyhow, due to the poor mileage it produces, and I believe loss of horsepower as well.
The main customer locally is the state govt., trying to prove a point. State police won't touch it, despite their new fleet being mostly flex-fuel.
[anchorout: it appears you have edited you post to delete the portion of it I just quoted...]
Karl: Of course we are right. The E in E15 and E85 does denote Ethanol content. I don't pay much attention as we readily get nonethanol down here and I don't have to worry about it ruining my engine. God help you if you screw up and put that E85 in your OB, or am I wrong?
"We're from the government and we're here to help."
"We're from the government and we're here to help."
anchorout":3f6urtim said:
Where do you buy rum for under $15/gal? And I think the highest proof is 151, meaning it's about 25% water. The only 151 rum I ever see is Bacardi, and it's quite expensive...guessing over 10x the cost of alcohol stove fuel, maybe even 20X as expensive, unless bought in Bermuda.
Will alcohol stoves burn isopropyl? I believe that's cheap at truck stops.
AstoriaDave
New member
There are several variations of "denatured alcohol", which differ in the denaturants, and sometimes in the percentage of alcohol. This link delineates some of those choices, and also compares the other alcohol based fuels you might try in a marine alcohol stove. http://thru-hiker.com/articles/fuel_alcohol_choices.php Some of the discussion really deals with aspects only important if you are backpacking, but otherwise this is a good summary.
For my money, I'd stick with denatured alcohol, avoiding brands which use methanol as the denaturant because methanol produdes more carbon monoxide than ehtanol does when it burns in stoves.
You can burn isopropyl alcohol, either in pure form or as rubbing alcohol, which is only 70 per cent isopropyl alcohol. The latter has substantially lower fuel value and will not burn as hot. Both usually produce more smoke and soot.
For the best price, buy in bulk and carry what you need in quart or gallon metal containers or similar. Likely you will find hardware stores give the best price, although a chemical supply house may beat that.
The more exotic choices such as Ever clear or 151 rum will do in a pinch, but cost way more than denatured alcohol.
Some dislike alcohol stoves because the flame is not as evident as in a gas or gasoline stove. Adding a couple shakes from a salt shaker, and agitating to dissolve the salt will make the flame yellow and easier to see. I would not do that unless you clean rhe stove regularly, because the salt will hasten corrosion.
For my money, I'd stick with denatured alcohol, avoiding brands which use methanol as the denaturant because methanol produdes more carbon monoxide than ehtanol does when it burns in stoves.
You can burn isopropyl alcohol, either in pure form or as rubbing alcohol, which is only 70 per cent isopropyl alcohol. The latter has substantially lower fuel value and will not burn as hot. Both usually produce more smoke and soot.
For the best price, buy in bulk and carry what you need in quart or gallon metal containers or similar. Likely you will find hardware stores give the best price, although a chemical supply house may beat that.
The more exotic choices such as Ever clear or 151 rum will do in a pinch, but cost way more than denatured alcohol.
Some dislike alcohol stoves because the flame is not as evident as in a gas or gasoline stove. Adding a couple shakes from a salt shaker, and agitating to dissolve the salt will make the flame yellow and easier to see. I would not do that unless you clean rhe stove regularly, because the salt will hasten corrosion.
I'm beginning to think the small butane stoves might be a better choice. I have 8 asian markets within 5 miles, but calling them proved fruitless, as nobody was available who could speak engrish. I visited three a few years ago looking for something else, and recognized not a single thing in the store, animal or vegetable...things that looked like a watermelon, but covered with 2" spines, for example. Most of the seafood was still partially alive, and one market even had live chickens. I got the evil eye until I left each place...probably thought I was INS...I would pay $2 extra to buy them from Dick's at the mall. One placed got busted shortly thereafter for selling illegal turtle species, something endangered.
I used Alcohol backpacking stoves for a few years and they were light and very simple and were also reliable and some could be carried without separate extra fuel containers for short trips. I burned denatured alcohol from the paint section and it worked well for me. The stoves are a little slow to cook with and it was a little terrifying to use in a hanging system in a tent but they worked when I needed them provided I was patient.
I used a few including some I made (this was 15 years ago) but my favorite was this unit that I still have packed away.
http://www.backcountrygear.com/mini-tra ... fgodQrIGFA
Having said all that; for boating we use a butane unit and I really would not give it up and love that fast, simple unit. I have ours mounted to a simple plastic serving tray with non-slip pads underneath and do most of my cooking directly on the gunnel with one side of the canvas rolled up.
http://www.sportco.com/store/pc/Camp-Ch ... p81113.htm
Greg
I used a few including some I made (this was 15 years ago) but my favorite was this unit that I still have packed away.
http://www.backcountrygear.com/mini-tra ... fgodQrIGFA
Having said all that; for boating we use a butane unit and I really would not give it up and love that fast, simple unit. I have ours mounted to a simple plastic serving tray with non-slip pads underneath and do most of my cooking directly on the gunnel with one side of the canvas rolled up.
http://www.sportco.com/store/pc/Camp-Ch ... p81113.htm
Greg
jack keifer
New member
Although this site, started with an alcohol discussion, there has been a discussion about other fuels including butane. I recently acquired a butane fueled stove that uses the 8 oz canisters. I have not been able to find any data sheets on storage. There seems to be different ideas here, other then not leaving them in the stove, on how to store them. Does anyone know how to access a data sheet?
On another point, I have been able to buy the canisters at resturant supply houses because chefs use them for warming chafing dishes, and fondue pots.
Jack
On another point, I have been able to buy the canisters at resturant supply houses because chefs use them for warming chafing dishes, and fondue pots.
Jack
AstoriaDave
New member
Jack,
Are you concerned about the tank overpressuring if it is stored in a building which gets very hot? IIRC they are rated for something like 120F and lower. They get pretty warm in use.
Here is one type using isobutane, a little netter when it gets cold . Prowl adound on this site. They should have dtorage recs.
http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/stove ... ro/product
Are you concerned about the tank overpressuring if it is stored in a building which gets very hot? IIRC they are rated for something like 120F and lower. They get pretty warm in use.
Here is one type using isobutane, a little netter when it gets cold . Prowl adound on this site. They should have dtorage recs.
http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/stove ... ro/product
I have heard several stories of disposable butane cylinders corroding through
and releasing the contents. I think I would store them in the house or garage, and only take as many on the boat as needed for a particular trip.
I'm assuming that butane is practically the equivalent of propane...in other words, is heavier than air and will settle rather than rise.
Speaking of which, why not small, disposable propane canisters instead? They are avail. at every hardware store and at Walmarts, whereas butane could be hard to locate in many locations. I have a small Coleman single-burner that heats quickly, and is physically stable...some mount directly to the top of the "squat" cylinders, but mine has a base and a short hose to allow using the typical cylinders used for propane torches, positioned at an angle.
I'm not certain, but I think there are/were some butane canisters that are virtually proprietary and only fit one brand of stove, but that experience is over 20 years old so maybe now they're standardized.
and releasing the contents. I think I would store them in the house or garage, and only take as many on the boat as needed for a particular trip.
I'm assuming that butane is practically the equivalent of propane...in other words, is heavier than air and will settle rather than rise.
Speaking of which, why not small, disposable propane canisters instead? They are avail. at every hardware store and at Walmarts, whereas butane could be hard to locate in many locations. I have a small Coleman single-burner that heats quickly, and is physically stable...some mount directly to the top of the "squat" cylinders, but mine has a base and a short hose to allow using the typical cylinders used for propane torches, positioned at an angle.
I'm not certain, but I think there are/were some butane canisters that are virtually proprietary and only fit one brand of stove, but that experience is over 20 years old so maybe now they're standardized.
Karl asked:
Where do you buy rum for under $15/gal? And I think the highest proof is 151, meaning it's about 25% water. The only 151 rum I ever see is Bacardi, and it's quite expensive...guessing over 10x the cost of alcohol stove fuel, maybe even 20X as expensive, unless bought in Bermuda.
Karl: To answer your question, when distilling rum, the first and last drippings are not for consumption. Some distillers dispose of it, others use it for fuel. It is 100% alcohol. I use mine for fuel. The rest I use for "sundowners". Hope that answers your inquiry.
Where do you buy rum for under $15/gal? And I think the highest proof is 151, meaning it's about 25% water. The only 151 rum I ever see is Bacardi, and it's quite expensive...guessing over 10x the cost of alcohol stove fuel, maybe even 20X as expensive, unless bought in Bermuda.
Karl: To answer your question, when distilling rum, the first and last drippings are not for consumption. Some distillers dispose of it, others use it for fuel. It is 100% alcohol. I use mine for fuel. The rest I use for "sundowners". Hope that answers your inquiry.
smittypaddler
New member
Someone in this post mentioned Bacardi 151 proof, which is what I mostly use. I've used Trangia alcohol stoves for 30 years on canoe/camping trips. They're unpressurized, and therefore relatively safe, though the Trangia Mini doesn't protect the flame very well, and I once had it on an unstable surface, where a little jostle caused the stove to spit burning alcohol for a radius of about a foot. The Trangia 27-3 UL is safer, as it protects the flame much better, and thereby also heats a quart of water much faster.
I used to use pure ethanol in my stoves, but I always had black soot on the bottom of my pans. I don't understand the physics, but adding 25% water cooks almost as well, and prevents the bottoms of my pans getting blackened, hence the Bacardi 151 proof rum. Besides, when I don't feel like a beer in the evening, a little rum in a glass of fruit juice tastes good. And I always take extra fuel for my stoves
I used to use pure ethanol in my stoves, but I always had black soot on the bottom of my pans. I don't understand the physics, but adding 25% water cooks almost as well, and prevents the bottoms of my pans getting blackened, hence the Bacardi 151 proof rum. Besides, when I don't feel like a beer in the evening, a little rum in a glass of fruit juice tastes good. And I always take extra fuel for my stoves